General Discussion

OrwellwasRight

(5,312 posts)

119. You said enough would drop it to collapse the employer-provided insurance system.

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:27 AM

Jul 2012

That is significantly more than "some." Stand by your premise. Of course "some" will always do something. That's because there are always outliers. However, your argument isn't based on outliers, it is based on the collapse of the employer-provided insurance system, which requires far more than outliers.

Meanwhile, you can quibble about words, but you have yet to provide actual proof (after being asked multiple times by other posters as well as me) of why the 60% + of employers who do not drop insurance coverage now, when dropping it is penalty-free, will all of sudden decide it is a better deal to drop coverage when there will be a financial penalty, and they will also lose the recruiting tool and whatever other benefits they are getting for their money now.

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When many employers stop offering health insurance to their employees... [View all] riderinthestorm Jun 2012 OP

"professional" companies won't change anything - tech, engineering, etc. banned from Kos Jun 2012 #1

They don't offer good (Wal-Mart) or any (McDonald's) coverage now. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #3

But will they be required to pony up that $3000 penalty? banned from Kos Jun 2012 #12

$3000 per is still cheaper than $6000-$10000 per n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #19

Yes, and 0 (current penalty) is cheaper than $3000. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #22

They're not paying 0. They're paying thousands for an employee's policy right now nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #25

The penalty right now is zero. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #33

You are confusing "penalty". Corporations are definitely paying right now. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #39

YOU are confusing "penalty." OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #56

You've clearly missed... Chan790 Jun 2012 #68

It seems like having a per-person penalty Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #97

If they pay the cost now when there is no penalty for dropping it, then OrwellwasRight Jul 2012 #111

What would be the incentive if everybody has insurance? Bandit Jun 2012 #71

The more pressure that builds, from every front, to enact single payer, the better riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #78

Everybody won't have insurance. OrwellwasRight Jul 2012 #110

Employers who don't offer insurance are paying zero. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #35

More and more companies are dropping coverage. That's a fact. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #42

More and more companies were dropping coverage BEFORE the ACA. That's a fact. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #52

The penalty will not cause most companies to drop coverage. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #21

I thought McD's had a waiver .... not sure about walmart ....nt littlewolf Jun 2012 #36

My point is that not many companies that provide coverage now will drop it. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #57

Even the best tech companies like Bell Labs, IBM etc. have dropped pension plans riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #5

Nothing like a 16% 'real' unemployment rate to induce employees to coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #101

you mean with all those Wal-Mart employees zbdent Jun 2012 #55

Absolutely FALSE. "Contract" work is already the norm in several professional fields. Romulox Jun 2012 #80

Yep. xmas74 Jul 2012 #100

I disagree. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #2

Exactly Iggy Jun 2012 #8

I'm no "reich winger" newbie, and I'm advocating FOR a path to single payer. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #14

I'm advocating for single payer too. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #16

I didn't say "all" employers but some most certainly will riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #47

See? They are dropping it REGARDLESS of the penalty. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #48

Its not an all or nothing thing. I'm not arguing that it is. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #50

You are though. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #53

I'm not. Its in my very first sentence that I qualify it - I never said "all" riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #63

You said enough would drop it to collapse the employer-provided insurance system. OrwellwasRight Jul 2012 #119

So Am I, and the ACA Iggy Jun 2012 #60

Then you don't know the facts of history, do you? Or mathematics? Zalatix Jun 2012 #90

WHAT A LOAD Iggy Jun 2012 #91

It will be cheaper to pay the penalty. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #9

Yes, and right now it is cheaper to offer nothing. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author Chan790 Jun 2012 #70

How is a penalty cheaper than 0? nt OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #18

They're not paying 0. They're paying thousands for an employee's policy riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #23

Yes, they currently pay more for insurance, and they could drop it without a penalty. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #32

Ok, the disconnect in this thread is simple. TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #37

They are dropping coverage - more and more companies are doing just that. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #43

Because some have already said they will. Chan790 Jun 2012 #73

Again, this is coming from Iggy Jun 2012 #92

Why are you so invested in maintaining the status quo? Healthcare tied to employment is so great? riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #93

Changing the Subject Iggy Jul 2012 #96

I'm not changing the subject and I've never said "all" companies. Please try to read for accuracy nt riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #102

If you dropped it today, you'd save $3500. If you dropped it after 2014, you'll save $500. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #76

Personally? We can't drop it since my husband has Stage IV, Grade IV lymphoma riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #83

If your experience is the exception rather than the rule lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #84

They are dropping it. More and more. Its happening as we speak riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #86

Why would they be offering coverage now? TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #95

A man on the local news said he would probably go to Autumn Jun 2012 #38

You could cut your employees compensation by $3500 without ramifications? n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #74

I dunno Jeff, do you think employers haven't already been doing that? riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #85

I know they do and are. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #87

McDonalds and 29 other big companies threatened to do just that. Zalatix Jul 2012 #120

McDonald's doesn't offer real health coverage. OrwellwasRight Jul 2012 #121

Southwest has been mulling dropping coverage for its employees. Zalatix Jul 2012 #122

Sure. I think everyone here agrees with that point. OrwellwasRight Jul 2012 #123

We will simply increase the penalty Motown_Johnny Jun 2012 #4

Remember its been defined now as a "tax" - raising "taxes" will be verrrry difficult imho. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #7

(R)s love raising taxes on the poor, this will be easy Motown_Johnny Jun 2012 #72

Increasing penalties, increasing taxes, increasing premiums and increasing bankruptcies kenny blankenship Jul 2012 #104

Single payer should clearly be the ultimate goal lolly Jun 2012 #6

It will be cheaper to pay the penalty. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #10

Because it's much cheaper to not offer it at all SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #13

+1 nt OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #24

It would be nice if insurance were separated from employment... PoliticAverse Jun 2012 #11

"insurers will be mandated to give it to them" Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #17

Oh, I completely agree. 110% agree but the bean counters will win on this I predict riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #28

Not exactly. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #29

Actually, the law does provide for enrollment windows. Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #40

Virtually all insurance will be sold inside the exchanges if not-employer sponsored. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #54

Great link! Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #65

Definitely -- OrwellwasRight Jul 2012 #112

I don't trust them. Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #113

Actually Kaiser Family Foundation OrwellwasRight Jul 2012 #114

Sorry - wasn't talking about KFF Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #115

Oh, I agree 100% OrwellwasRight Jul 2012 #118

Only when the US Chamber of Commerce is destroyed. LiberalFighter Jun 2012 #20

These same fools were ALL up in arms yesterday Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #41

Some of us have that objective. Chan790 Jun 2012 #81

single pay is the only way to fix this broken system RainDog Jun 2012 #26

I think you are correct n/t DeeJay Jun 2012 #27

I don't see why having to pay a penalty would have any effect on employr offering ins. if he's Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #30

Oh I think they'll collude. I have no doubt of that. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #44

I think the economics with eventually force a two tier heath insurance system LARED Jun 2012 #31

I agree and its what many, many DUers feared in the HCR negotiation phases. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #45

I agree SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #51

I believe Australia does this now. Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #66

If you have 50 or fewer employees, your employee health is tax deductible... rustydog Jun 2012 #34

I am a small business owner and operator. I live this daily. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #46

Currently health insurance is a big plus in attracting and retaining employees. FarCenter Jun 2012 #49

Sen Obama at 2009 SEIU conference ChazII Jun 2012 #58

Interesting thing happened today mzteris Jun 2012 #59

I think so as well TNLib Jun 2012 #61

It already is even cheaper not to pay for insurance quaker bill Jun 2012 #62

I agree with most of your post except... riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #64

No reason to drop coverage in the law quaker bill Jun 2012 #69

I'd like to believe you can find any kind of coverage for $4k but if there is, I don't know it riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #75

The group policy at my office quaker bill Jul 2012 #98

What insurance company and what are the specifics? nt riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #103

BCBS quaker bill Jul 2012 #116

I'd wager the majority of private American employers no longer provide health insurance. So what's Romulox Jun 2012 #79

Then they have nothing to drop quaker bill Jun 2012 #88

Employers do provide the benefit to save money. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #82

And they won't stop because of a tax they don't have to pay. quaker bill Jun 2012 #89

I disagree - There was no penalty before. NutmegYankee Jun 2012 #67

I agree with all of your post, save the part about Single Payer. Single Payer is impossible, now. Romulox Jun 2012 #77

This makes absolutely no sense...If an employer is paying for insurance or the gateway for employees rustydog Jun 2012 #94

"They will begin to wonder why health insurance was ever coupled with employment" 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #99

IMO employer offered health insurance will be a thing of the past. To my knowledge RKP5637 Jul 2012 #105

Actually, it was - the WWII post wage freezes Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #107

Thanks for adding this!!! RKP5637 Jul 2012 #109

Do you think many executives & their favorites get FREE hc policies in the status quo, offered by patrice Jul 2012 #106

I don't have the answer to that. I'm not sure anyone does riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #108

Here in MA many will not hire fulltime anymore Marrah_G Jul 2012 #117

health insurance benefits? lauraperkins Jul 2012 #124