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JHan

(10,173 posts)

97. That's not the way the world has worked...

Sun Apr 9, 2017, 04:46 PM

Apr 2017

Last edited Sun Apr 9, 2017, 05:17 PM - Edit history (1)

We have treaties, alliances and agreements because nothing could ever be just our responsibility - that's leaning towards isolationism. Countries work collectively on issues that impact all states whether global warming or poverty. The U.N. exists for a reason. And the promise of 21st century civilization will be global - global co-operation, cosmopolitanism, diversity and hopefully peace. Human rights violations around the world already impact us and war impacts our lives whether we're in direct conflict or not - from the price of gasoline to the type of cars we drive, to the goods available in our markets. This is why international law works best when everyone is on board. And with everyone on board, responsibility is shared and there is greater accountability. Because it hasn't all worked perfectly doesn't mean it hasn't worked at all. You should give Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of our Nature a read ( if you haven't already)

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NSA just lost control of its Top Secret arsenal of digital weapons - Snowden tweet today [View all] Kablooie Apr 2017 OP

Note, they aren't upset because trump is a racist, sexist, and xenophobe, because they knew that still_one Apr 2017 #1

Snowden is Putin's tool on Twitter (sadly) sharedvalues Apr 2017 #88

Like Gucifer, probaly fake. L. Coyote Apr 2017 #2

you think Gucifer is fake? LaydeeBug Apr 2017 #79

We know Snowden's tweets are Russian sharedvalues Apr 2017 #101

Yes, a created persona to mask an identity. L. Coyote Apr 2017 #112

Aaaah, so you think Gucifer is a handle, like L. Coyote or LayDeeBug LaydeeBug Apr 2017 #131

Fuck you, Comrade Snowden! Cryptoad Apr 2017 #3

Just to be clear, Snowden didn't have anything to do with this. Kablooie Apr 2017 #5

Begs the question... Skidmore Apr 2017 #7

exactly nini Apr 2017 #24

Snowden performed valuable service. He was the 4th in a list ofwhisleblowers-the three delisen Apr 2017 #37

"the three who preceded him had their lives ruined" Me. Apr 2017 #54

Snowden didn't do this. He just pointed out who had Warpy Apr 2017 #78

You & I Shall Have To Disagree About Snowden Me. Apr 2017 #80

Yes, he told us the government was snooping on everything we did Warpy Apr 2017 #81

Precisely Me. Apr 2017 #86

Warpy, agree with you often, but we are all known by our friends. Hortensis Apr 2017 #92

What most people want to know jrthin Apr 2017 #130

He did not just release information. He gave it to a couple of journalists he trusted. Kablooie Apr 2017 #100

Can't Say I Believe He Got Rid Of All The Info Me. Apr 2017 #106

Snowden's tweets are Russian disinformation sharedvalues Apr 2017 #85

Indeed shenmue Apr 2017 #102

He didn't reveal one thing anyone who's been paying attention didn't already know nini Apr 2017 #107

He's gleeful about it. He thinks it proves something. randome Apr 2017 #10

No, Putin is pushing this story via Snowden sharedvalues Apr 2017 #89

"The letter is obviously written by someone who's first language is not English marybourg Apr 2017 #4

Or speakers from China, or other countries. n/t woodsprite Apr 2017 #13

anybidy can rite like that if he want Blues Heron Apr 2017 #15

Lol! Yep - could be a dumbass Trump supporter..... kerry-is-my-prez Apr 2017 #83

I was curious about that Nictuku Apr 2017 #105

Some actual information on what was leaked muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #6

Traitor Snowden calling the situation a potential "scandal". oasis Apr 2017 #16

"Traitor Snowden" muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #20

He's warming himself by the campfires of the enemy as you write. nt oasis Apr 2017 #22

He blew the whistle on surveillance of the American population, and his passport was withdrawn muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #23

I'm willing to let the courts decide his fate. oasis Apr 2017 #29

Trying to stay away from courts doesn't make someone a "traitor", does it? (nt) muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #38

Refusing to bring your case before a court of law is CLEARLY oasis Apr 2017 #47

Hah. No, it's not. But you weren't calling him 'guilty', you were calling him a 'traitor' muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #50

Snowden is guilty of treason. Okay? Clear enough? oasis Apr 2017 #52

If you think the enemies of the US government are the US people, and the world in general, muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #62

He's welcome to present such a "defense" to jurors after oasis Apr 2017 #75

Not me tazkcmo Apr 2017 #94

What in hell does being a brown person have to do with it? oasis Apr 2017 #115

Really? tazkcmo Apr 2017 #116

Last I checked, Snowden was a WHITE person. nt oasis Apr 2017 #119

sigh tazkcmo Apr 2017 #129

False. Snowden's Twitter is approved by Russian Intelligence. sharedvalues Apr 2017 #40

I have no idea what German has to do with this muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #46

This: guillaumeb Apr 2017 #55

Distraction alert. You're not denying Snowden a tool of Russia. sharedvalues Apr 2017 #57

I was already alert to the distraction. muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #60

So you concur Snowden is controlled by Russia now sharedvalues Apr 2017 #84

No, I don't concur with that at all muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #96

Wow... 2naSalit Apr 2017 #99

"He's fluent in German" is the new "He had boxes in his garage." Dr. Strange Apr 2017 #128

You left out that he divulged info on our covert international operations also. He's a traitor. brush Apr 2017 #113

Rightnow I reserve the term traitor for Republicans, as for Snowden delisen Apr 2017 #111

Bannon bounced from NSC. NSA digital "secrets" leaked. republicans go golfing. Achilleaze Apr 2017 #8

Not a big Snowden fan . nocalflea Apr 2017 #9

That's interesting but explains why they'd be Trump fans. Kablooie Apr 2017 #18

Russia cares about Trump's political support sharedvalues Apr 2017 #41

Sounds like bullshit to me. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #11

Yup. Snowden is Russian disinformation now sharedvalues Apr 2017 #87

I wonder if he regrets it...I mean was it really worth it? Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #123

Just young and dumb and idealistic I think sharedvalues Apr 2017 #124

I head a CIA guy on MSNBC...talking about how Russia target young people like Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #125

Yup. And now he's a Putin propaganda tool too. sharedvalues Apr 2017 #127

Well theres at least one good thing, more people are are dissatisfied with trump. caroldansen Apr 2017 #12

Didn't that happen last summer? How many times are the NSA going to lose their top secret stuff? Squinch Apr 2017 #14

I think this is more of the cache they hacked along with a password. Kablooie Apr 2017 #17

I think that, like the "emails" they try to find ways to extend the "scandal" by releasing bits and bettyellen Apr 2017 #26

Extending the scandal and getting their names in the paper and an ego bump. I'm so sick of these Squinch Apr 2017 #58

Snowden is a traitor who deserves a traitor's fate. Foamfollower Apr 2017 #19

Has the US government ever engaged in "cyber war"? ronnie624 Apr 2017 #21

I don't know. Do you? MineralMan Apr 2017 #25

You already know the answer, as does anyone with an interest in history. n/t ronnie624 Apr 2017 #28

Your reply is short on supporting information, I'm afraid. MineralMan Apr 2017 #30

I don't need any "supporting information" on this topic. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #33

Ah, the "we deserve this" gambit. I'm not buying what you're selling. bettyellen Apr 2017 #27

Governments engage in clandestine activities, in attempts to promote their agendas. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #32

It's the candidate working with a foreign nation that is the problem. And I bet you knew that but bettyellen Apr 2017 #35

What do you mean by "working with a foreign nation"? n/t ronnie624 Apr 2017 #39

LOL, as if Trump and half his staff aren't in deep w Russia. You're funny! bettyellen Apr 2017 #51

It isn't even clear what your accusation is. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #63

Oh my-it seems you have a lot of catching up to do, LOL. bettyellen Apr 2017 #67

I understand. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #70

Vague nonsense. Clearly state what you think is happening or put a sock in it. bettyellen Apr 2017 #71

I tend to point out American chauvinism and hypocrisy when I see it. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #90

Except you really aren't pointing to anything specific that Dems have done while broadbrushing them bettyellen Apr 2017 #95

Any political system that depends on private monetary donations ronnie624 Apr 2017 #98

And republicans are making sure it stays that way by stacking the USSC .... bettyellen Apr 2017 #108

Elections in other countries are none of our business, ronnie624 Apr 2017 #114

Libertarian isolationist bullshit. Works well in small homogeneous rural states I guess.... bettyellen Apr 2017 #117

I'm for cooperative engagement with other countries, not coersion and force. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #121

You share the libertarian isolationist crap about ignoring human rights abuses then... bettyellen Apr 2017 #122

You apparently don't understand the definitions of the words you use. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #126

No, I understand you want to pretend Dems are as bad as the GOP when it comes to bettyellen Apr 2017 #132

This message was self-deleted by its author ronnie624 Apr 2017 #91

Often called "Whataboutism" sharedvalues Apr 2017 #43

No. Foamfollower Apr 2017 #31

There is a very rich historical record on this issue. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #34

Asserting it is so is not PROVING it is so. Foamfollower Apr 2017 #45

Lol. n/t ronnie624 Apr 2017 #49

Whataboutism! sharedvalues Apr 2017 #42

That's obviously a made-up term for avoiding the facts of a given issue. n/t ronnie624 Apr 2017 #48

naw it's based on the Tu quoque fallacy, which is real. JHan Apr 2017 #53

It's purpose is to enable an avoidance of cognitive conflict. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #59

that's a good word - avoidance, because whataboutism is precisely that.. JHan Apr 2017 #61

So instead of talking about made-up words, ronnie624 Apr 2017 #65

More deflection. Deflection is at the core of "Whataboutism" emulatorloo Apr 2017 #68

what, that nations do bad things? JHan Apr 2017 #74

We're only responsible for the conduct of our own government. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #93

That's not the way the world has worked... JHan Apr 2017 #97

If only it was the way you fantasize it to be. ronnie624 Apr 2017 #103

No one is being denialist... JHan Apr 2017 #104

I knew it- no foreign policy is good foreign policy, LOL. That's what some people rationalize when bettyellen Apr 2017 #109

So if we're not coercing or forcing our will on other countries, ronnie624 Apr 2017 #118

You think making alliances and treaties are always bad- it's a childish world view. bettyellen Apr 2017 #120

Propagandists love whataboutism! sharedvalues Apr 2017 #56

Look, it is totally fine that you don't give a shit about Putin's interference in the 2016 election emulatorloo Apr 2017 #66

It's basically a symptom of CDS. This "so what" about collusion between Trump and Russia.... bettyellen Apr 2017 #69

yep. Or just gullibility. Some naively believe Putin's a leftist. Or something emulatorloo Apr 2017 #72

Every time I see this now and I look into post history - they all pushed the HHate propaganda ... bettyellen Apr 2017 #76

Yes, Russian intelligence knew their audience and targeted the message perfectly emulatorloo Apr 2017 #77

And now they say we don't even have a right to speak about what other nations do..... bettyellen Apr 2017 #110

Snowden's tweets are written by Russian Intelligence sharedvalues Apr 2017 #36

Yes I believe you're right about this FakeNoose Apr 2017 #73

Written by someone whose first language isn't English. NastyRiffraff Apr 2017 #44

Daily Beast has an interesting article about this salin Apr 2017 #64

Eddie better watch it, he is a half step away from Dawson Leery Apr 2017 #82