General Discussion

PatSeg

(52,599 posts)

8. The problem

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 10:58 AM

Jul 2012

a lot of people have with the "mandate" is it says people have to buy a product from a private, profit motivated company. It would be far easier to accept if we had the option to purchase insurance from government, such as Medicare. Many people just don't trust health insurance companies and with good reason.

On the upside, I'm quite sure we'll see a public option down the road.

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"...first time the government has forced us to buy a product" MY ASS! [View all] rateyes Jul 2012 OP

We're all forced to buy Medicare, too. TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #1

true rateyes Jul 2012 #3

And most of us are impatiently waiting dragonlady Jul 2012 #25

Medicare is not a third party for profit company. former9thward Jul 2012 #75

ever heard of part d? rateyes Jul 2012 #103

Fail. former9thward Jul 2012 #105

yes it is. so is health insurance. rateyes Jul 2012 #107

No health insurance is mandated. former9thward Jul 2012 #160

you do pay a penalty for part d rateyes Jul 2012 #164

No, but what's your point? You're forced to pay into... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #126

Except that the private entities are mass murderers n/t eridani Jul 2012 #140

Maybe being forced to pay a for profit insurance company is just quibling to you. former9thward Jul 2012 #162

so you would rather that my insurance premiums rise rateyes Jul 2012 #166

I would call it a win if I thought for one minute the premiums former9thward Jul 2012 #167

medical loss ratio and the mandate is all about cost. rateyes Jul 2012 #168

There's a tax on clothing in most states. There's tax on gas, spirits, and cigarettes. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #2

yep rateyes Jul 2012 #4

Food is taxed in Tennessee. eom Fawke Em Jul 2012 #5

Even fresh produce? HopeHoops Jul 2012 #13

yes full rate all food d_r Jul 2012 #85

TN doesnt have income tax, though. rateyes Jul 2012 #124

Which is backwards. Fawke Em Jul 2012 #129

NC does obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #149

Well THAT fucking sucks. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #152

yup d_r Jul 2012 #161

Food is also taxed in Idaho jmowreader Jul 2012 #125

But the federal government is not forcing me to buy clothing, gas or cigarettes. xoom Jul 2012 #138

Not having healthcare is a sign of stupidity. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #155

Food is taxed here obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #148

Still don't see where you are forced to buy a for profit product from a private company. NCTraveler Jul 2012 #6

name a state without it, rateyes Jul 2012 #31

State. You said it. NCTraveler Jul 2012 #37

state is government rateyes Jul 2012 #49

You don't know the Constitution, do you? former9thward Jul 2012 #77

States cannot pass laws contrary to the federal Constitution. rateyes Jul 2012 #101

Your have a lack of knowledge about the Constitution. former9thward Jul 2012 #106

show me in the op where i ever used the word federal. rateyes Jul 2012 #111

Of course you did not use the word federal. former9thward Jul 2012 #163

the post wasnt designed to be a states rights argument. rateyes Jul 2012 #165

and, i never said that the states didnt have the right to do things the feds cant. rateyes Jul 2012 #116

Gray area. The 10th does give the right to states that aren't assigned to the federal level. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #156

Tell me the average American gives a flying shit about state vs federal jurisdiction. What Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2012 #114

hi friend rateyes Jul 2012 #119

I know....How are ya ?? Exciting times Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2012 #151

good for you!! rateyes Jul 2012 #154

"What in the hell does it matter if the outcome is the same." NCTraveler Jul 2012 #141

Not my point though. My point is that these people are hiding behind Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2012 #150

Who owns the highway system? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #73

Most states require proof of financial responsibility - not necessarily private insurance Crabby Appleton Jul 2012 #95

Medicare part D PADemD Jul 2012 #48

good point rateyes Jul 2012 #59

You are allowed to buy from non-profit co-ops if you want. boppers Jul 2012 #127

Well, I do understand the accusation..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #7

They are penalized if they refuse to get a driver's or hunting license. They can't sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #10

Well, even if I wanted it that way..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #16

If I'm the one with the mandate then why must I purchase it from my employer TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #22

Most employers will continue to provide for employee health care insurance since sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #32

which is why we needed the public option rateyes Jul 2012 #35

Buying insurance through an employer will be less expensive.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #43

The problem PatSeg Jul 2012 #8

I have a problem with buying from private insurance companies..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #12

My confidence PatSeg Jul 2012 #23

Yep, ignorance of the facts is the great wall.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #34

Yes, painful but inevitable PatSeg Jul 2012 #41

Exactly... soccer1 Jul 2012 #44

I would prefer to give my money to the gov for single payor Marrah_G Jul 2012 #15

I agree!! soccer1 Jul 2012 #17

+1,000!!! Zalatix Jul 2012 #18

Same here PatSeg Jul 2012 #54

you can choose to drive, hunt or fish CleanLucre Jul 2012 #9

Bingo. Zalatix Jul 2012 #19

We wanted a victory SO BAD, we didnt care what we won Puzzledtraveller Jul 2012 #39

It is more PatSeg Jul 2012 #24

with ACA CleanLucre Jul 2012 #28

once you have coverage CleanLucre Jul 2012 #30

You ask very good questions, PatSeg Jul 2012 #67

and that's to bad CleanLucre Jul 2012 #74

I know PatSeg Jul 2012 #100

In Oregon, we passed laws that give you a choice to have a dead body. boppers Jul 2012 #130

And I'm sure those "dead bodies" PatSeg Jul 2012 #143

Moreover, in my state, you don't even need insurance to drive on public roads. Occulus Jul 2012 #26

No, and you can't choose whether or not you will end up Arkana Jul 2012 #36

that's not the point CleanLucre Jul 2012 #46

Exactly what Justice Ginsburg pointed out: treestar Jul 2012 #55

Define "healthy" CleanLucre Jul 2012 #58

Anybody can end up in the ER at any time. treestar Jul 2012 #84

People who are uninsured yet can afford insurance.. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #113

They still can't pay it treestar Jul 2012 #117

you can choose to go to doctor or not, rateyes Jul 2012 #40

the OP's analogy doesn't work CleanLucre Jul 2012 #47

You can choose whether or not you are going to go to a doctor treestar Jul 2012 #53

you can choose to drive, hunt or fish. you can't choose to have a body CleanLucre Jul 2012 #56

Following your course of logic, food should be a non-profit enterprise. Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #81

Try following the OPs course of logic CleanLucre Jul 2012 #87

Yes, health care is optional, eating is not. Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #91

you are confused CleanLucre Jul 2012 #94

That was the point. Everyone needs health care treestar Jul 2012 #86

i once owned a house in a flood plain... spanone Jul 2012 #11

Yes, I live in a flood prone area, but... soccer1 Jul 2012 #14

that's because CleanLucre Jul 2012 #20

have to buy pmi rateyes Jul 2012 #42

No that is your mortgage company requiring that not the government. former9thward Jul 2012 #79

Your bank required flood insurance... meaculpa2011 Jul 2012 #21

Yes there are PatSeg Jul 2012 #27

Provided through. Not required by. The difference is important. n/t Igel Jul 2012 #60

It is an important distinction PatSeg Jul 2012 #65

It's administered by the federal government. meaculpa2011 Jul 2012 #142

That really sucks PatSeg Jul 2012 #144

it was govt subsidized ins. spanone Jul 2012 #61

The big deal is bupkus Jul 2012 #29

I don't think so..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #38

Horseshit. Auto insurance, home insurance... Arkana Jul 2012 #33

Imagine you're on the 3rd rung of a ladder. Igel Jul 2012 #63

Government does not force you to buy home insurance oldhippie Jul 2012 #72

We're also forced to pay for the military Industral complex which KILLS people around the world Auntie Bush Jul 2012 #45

I'm forced to work about 1 out of 8 hours per day for the military machine. Gregorian Jul 2012 #50

I just had to pay taxes to my city and state at the grocery store randr Jul 2012 #51

Federal vs. State government, guys. Basic civics. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #52

I am shocked at how many people don't understand the difference joeglow3 Jul 2012 #57

Another shocker. Igel Jul 2012 #64

"States rights" was changed back at the civil war. boppers Jul 2012 #133

Please explain how. joeglow3 Jul 2012 #146

it is still government forcing the purchase of a product from private rateyes Jul 2012 #62

The way the Constitution was written joeglow3 Jul 2012 #68

Governments have "powers" not "rights" oldhippie Jul 2012 #76

Your homework is to look up "Federalism" and understand how it applies to this question. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #69

i know what federalism is. I am simply rateyes Jul 2012 #90

You don't *really* understand the subject, if you don't understand that what you posted is wrong... Romulox Jul 2012 #93

Yeah I really understand rateyes Jul 2012 #96

That understanding isn't reflected in the OP or your subsequent replies. Supreme Court Cases Romulox Jul 2012 #97

I am well aware that the rights not specified to the federal govt throughthe rateyes Jul 2012 #99

In each example there is no universal mandate. TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #66

and you arent required to buy insurance rateyes Jul 2012 #104

There is no prohibition against speeding, you just pay the fine if you do TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #158

You never have to go to a hospital or doctor, either. boppers Jul 2012 #134

You are accessed the penalty even if you don't TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #159

You are NOT required to buy car insurance oldhippie Jul 2012 #70

nitpicking rateyes Jul 2012 #92

What is law? oldhippie Jul 2012 #108

its a difference without a distinction. rateyes Jul 2012 #109

No, it is not .... oldhippie Jul 2012 #110

you are purchasing a bond from the state rateyes Jul 2012 #112

No, you are not purchasing anything ..... oldhippie Jul 2012 #153

then they will just change the argument and tell you "yes, but those are state taxes" notadmblnd Jul 2012 #71

We're forced to buy smoke detectors for our homes and seatbelts for our cars. n/t Ian David Jul 2012 #78

You are forced to buy neither homes nor cars. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #115

Right, and if you live off the grid, you don't have to buy insurance. boppers Jul 2012 #132

We have to live SOMEWHERE, and all those places have smoke detectors. Ian David Jul 2012 #147

The difference is Turbineguy Jul 2012 #80

Even if you don't want access to health care, you have to buy it. hughee99 Jul 2012 #82

The biggest expense we're forced to pay for is WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR. valerief Jul 2012 #83

Better response: So WHAT if it IS the "first time"? NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #88

It won't be the LAST time, that's "so what". nt Romulox Jul 2012 #89

And? NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #98

Some history on that with this link. Gotta be careful invoking the founders. brewens Jul 2012 #102

You will never convince me that this is good policy. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #118

No one has to. Lex Jul 2012 #122

Well this thread surely has been an eye opener if nothing else. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #120

..or for-profit and non-profit, for that matter. boppers Jul 2012 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author Herlong Jul 2012 #121

What About When George Washington............... ChoppinBroccoli Jul 2012 #123

The 'gun mandate' was not for every American, it was for 'able bodied men'. Bluenorthwest Jul 2012 #157

I predict this thread will heat up soon. Rain Mcloud Jul 2012 #128

objects or collection of services... loyalsister Jul 2012 #131

They forced us to buy a war in Iraq too. (Though some of us didn't buy it then.) Kablooie Jul 2012 #135

Not the same, sorry. xoom Jul 2012 #137

That sinister bastard Obama. He did this to set the stage for Single Payer. Kennah Jul 2012 #139

Even those who DON'T drive use the streets and sidewalks lame54 Jul 2012 #145