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bekkilyn

(454 posts)

119. This norm needs to be changed regardless of what "the rules" say. (nt)

Reply to Heartstrings (Reply #115)

Tue Apr 11, 2017, 08:38 AM

Apr 2017

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The United Airline assault on a passenger is just another symptom of authoritarianism [View all] nadine_mn Apr 2017 OP

Disgraceful. Im still speechless behind this.Poor man. SummerSnow Apr 2017 #1

There's probably some small print that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"... NurseJackie Apr 2017 #2

They issued a boarding pass Mosby Apr 2017 #10

Well, there is the right to refuse service vs the right not to leave bloodied nadine_mn Apr 2017 #13

Yep... they've got something to prove. I can easily imagine... NurseJackie Apr 2017 #14

IIRC, the people who removed him had vests marked "Police"... JHB Apr 2017 #72

I'm fine with rights to refuse service (provided not a protected class), but bekkilyn Apr 2017 #20

Actually, according to their own contract... regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #163

It's actually up about 0.90% for today n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #26

Their stock is being re-accommodated. nt JTFrog Apr 2017 #153

United has treated me no better CountAllVotes Apr 2017 #3

Hear hear Rollo Apr 2017 #57

They are disgusting! CountAllVotes Apr 2017 #128

People with right-wing authoritarian tendencies chia Apr 2017 #4

Wrestlers, Dawson Leery Apr 2017 #31

Yeah but we fight back C_U_L8R Apr 2017 #5

+1,000 malaise Apr 2017 #6

RESIST. nt No Vested Interest Apr 2017 #7

I'm not a lawyer Mosby Apr 2017 #8

Eh I kinda am (went to law school, passed the bar but never practiced) nadine_mn Apr 2017 #11

The needed to go to court for an affirmative injunction treestar Apr 2017 #118

Maybe if they would have offered cash instead of a voucher, someone would have taken it. (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #121

In the situation, they should have treestar Apr 2017 #122

Tell you what mythology Apr 2017 #15

Wait - he was trespassing? nadine_mn Apr 2017 #21

No he wasn't tresspassing bekkilyn Apr 2017 #24

Your ticket is conditional. If ordered to leave the plane you are legally obligated to leave Statistical Apr 2017 #33

He still wasn't tresspassing bekkilyn Apr 2017 #37

So, this is a totally legit way to run a business then. kcr Apr 2017 #105

Did that business rob me of the service I already paid for like United did to this gentleman? bekkilyn Apr 2017 #23

He had a firm and binding contractual agreement. Foamfollower Apr 2017 #71

Like a theater? Or a hotel? athena Apr 2017 #93

What bit of irrational absurdity leads you to believe he was trespassing? LanternWaste Apr 2017 #182

FYI: 14 CFR 91.11 - Prohibition on interference with crewmembers. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #28

I am not seeing a definition of "interference" nadine_mn Apr 2017 #52

AFAIK, if you don't cooperate with crew instructions, you're interfering n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #103

however - that is not listed in the statute nadine_mn Apr 2017 #104

I have no legal background and can't point to any precedents discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #147

How would sitting in your seat (not even an aisle avebury Apr 2017 #116

That would not apply treestar Apr 2017 #120

First, I'm not a lawyer discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #146

The individual who assaulted him should go to jail. Throck Apr 2017 #101

For a good laugh, watch this video about United from a few years ago, over 16,000,000 Views PuppyBismark Apr 2017 #9

Hilarious - and sad nadine_mn Apr 2017 #12

Every guitarist in America has seen this DFW Apr 2017 #17

and they still haven't learned mountain grammy Apr 2017 #124

Makes United look like a flying prison. wonder what their training is like. delisen Apr 2017 #155

The airline has the right to ask you to leave the plane perdita9 Apr 2017 #16

You can be asked to leave but there is excessive force used here nadine_mn Apr 2017 #19

I agree the force was excessive but what should have been done? Statistical Apr 2017 #29

Obviously $800 wasn't enough of an incentive to anyone bekkilyn Apr 2017 #38

The problem isn't the money they offer. It's the uncertainty of knowing when you'll get out. LisaM Apr 2017 #41

They could have offered something that *someone* would have taken though bekkilyn Apr 2017 #43

I'm just explaining why I generally never take the offer. LisaM Apr 2017 #45

Probably the same for many bekkilyn Apr 2017 #50

$5000 in cash. athena Apr 2017 #60

Well even I would take that! LisaM Apr 2017 #64

It's not even pocket change for United. athena Apr 2017 #74

Definitely. LisaM Apr 2017 #79

I heard.... MountainMama Apr 2017 #159

And that's the problem with being bumped. LisaM Apr 2017 #164

Exactly. If it takes 2 round-trip tickets in first class to Hawaii, so be it. cos dem Apr 2017 #70

They messed up by not having standby crew in Louisville. LisaM Apr 2017 #42

no, it is NOT new Skittles Apr 2017 #56

Let me be a little more specific. LisaM Apr 2017 #63

The FAA rest requirements are indeed new jberryhill Apr 2017 #78

It's the new FAA rest requirements jberryhill Apr 2017 #77

I had a flight delayed because they did not have a plane LeftInTX Apr 2017 #142

yup Skittles Apr 2017 #55

They told people at the gate that they needed 4 people to give up seats and still boarded them nadine_mn Apr 2017 #65

Exactly! perdita9 Apr 2017 #148

It isn't... regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #166

After that first mistake of boarding all passengers, when the man refused to surrender his seat delisen Apr 2017 #162

Why should the airline have that right? athena Apr 2017 #96

Calm down! perdita9 Apr 2017 #149

The ends don't justify the means bekkilyn Apr 2017 #171

Yeah. A plan we paid them to be on! kcr Apr 2017 #106

Stop lying perdita9 Apr 2017 #150

That would be the laws written by the airline's lobbyists? annabanana Apr 2017 #137

FAA regulations perdita9 Apr 2017 #151

And this makes it NOT authoritarianism HOW exactly? 6000eliot Apr 2017 #144

the law was once on the side of refusing service in public accommodations delisen Apr 2017 #156

WRONG! regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #165

The worst flight I ever had was on United. I promised myself to never use them again. nt C Moon Apr 2017 #18

For what it's worth, I just called this shitty airline and told them I would NEVER fly with them BigDemVoter Apr 2017 #22

I was stranded in O'Hare for two f***ing days by United. Girard442 Apr 2017 #25

My wife and I once got stuck at O'Hare with a kid in diapers. hunter Apr 2017 #58

Isolating? BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #68

I once sat next to a floppy-headed snorer on an overnight airline flight. hunter Apr 2017 #73

If corporations are people this is assault and battery Hokie Apr 2017 #27

Or if you sold them something athena Apr 2017 #82

Depends on the jurisdiction Azathoth Apr 2017 #87

It's boycott time. Dawson Leery Apr 2017 #30

It sure as hell is!! AgadorSparticus Apr 2017 #98

Its also not OK not to leave. Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2017 #32

Yeah, I suspect if they had raised the buyout again, Ilsa Apr 2017 #35

Being honest, they'd have probably had me at $400 Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2017 #39

I mean honestly - they could have really offered a sweet deal at really no cost to the airline nadine_mn Apr 2017 #46

Yeah, that potential $1,000 buyout Ilsa Apr 2017 #48

No one agrees to be physically assaulted or forcibly removed from their seat nadine_mn Apr 2017 #49

You make the passenger sound like a blameless victim Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2017 #62

And Rosa Parks refused a lawful order to move to the back of the bus bekkilyn Apr 2017 #66

This ain't that Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2017 #86

It's the same idea bekkilyn Apr 2017 #107

Divided Airlines -I guess they figure it's them vs. us. Something about the tone of the delisen Apr 2017 #160

That doesn't require a violent response nadine_mn Apr 2017 #67

Well stated.. Mahalo, nadine Cha Apr 2017 #75

Yes he did. He said "no" Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2017 #88

No, he does not become a stowaway and no he doesn't deserve to get nadine_mn Apr 2017 #91

I'm a big guy. Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2017 #95

You've allowed yourself to be normalized to their objectionable behavior bekkilyn Apr 2017 #110

No - I just don't find the behavior objectionable Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2017 #135

I'd be just as outraged had it happened to any of the passengers. bekkilyn Apr 2017 #139

The issue is level of force - and I am stunned that you think this situation nadine_mn Apr 2017 #132

No. He did not legally become a stowaway. kcr Apr 2017 #108

By law, a valid ticket means he CANNOT be a stowaway just for future reference nadine_mn Apr 2017 #133

He still failed to follow the commands of flight crew members Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2017 #136

Sometimes the law bumps up against human rights. delisen Apr 2017 #158

as did many in the Civil Rights movement. some had the nerve to delisen Apr 2017 #157

what was LAWFUL about an order to remove himself from a seat he had paid for and niyad Apr 2017 #174

Wrong, wrong, wrong... regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #167

All the more reason not to fly. NT. warmfeet Apr 2017 #34

Trump should buy the airline Angry Dragon Apr 2017 #36

Well said! CanonRay Apr 2017 #40

I fly standby all the time and am appalled they took paying passengers off to accommodate kimbutgar Apr 2017 #44

They told people at the gate that they needed 4 people to give up seats nadine_mn Apr 2017 #47

Yup, first come, first served TexasBushwhacker Apr 2017 #131

so they only offered $800 and then decided to rip a an from his seat Takket Apr 2017 #51

It's not even $800 in cash. It's $800 in useless vouchers athena Apr 2017 #61

And most people don't read the fine print dalton99a Apr 2017 #83

United Airlines: "Do what we say or we'll beat you up" dalton99a Apr 2017 #53

this is not a new policy Skittles Apr 2017 #54

I agree. There is no excuse for this. It's sickening. yardwork Apr 2017 #59

I can guarantee, if United had offered ENOUGH money to give up a seat.... steve2470 Apr 2017 #69

Or even $1500 or 1K.. they weren't being smart business Cha Apr 2017 #76

It's illegal to offer more than $1350 jberryhill Apr 2017 #80

This law can be changed, and should be changed to a much higher amount. No Vested Interest Apr 2017 #99

ah ok nt steve2470 Apr 2017 #100

You don't have an inviolable right to sit on someone else's airplane Azathoth Apr 2017 #81

You would have a point if the person did not have a ticket to sit on the plane. athena Apr 2017 #84

I suggest you read the DOT regulations Azathoth Apr 2017 #89

And I suggest YOU read United's Contract of Carriage... regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #168

Yes, I understand this is the new talking point Azathoth Apr 2017 #179

This wasn't an overbooked flight. They wanted to bump a paying customer for their staff. AgadorSparticus Apr 2017 #90

Then you may have a lawsuit against them, not an inviolable right to sit on their plane Azathoth Apr 2017 #92

Private property does not mean they can treat you however they want to. AgadorSparticus Apr 2017 #97

+1,000 !! CountAllVotes Apr 2017 #134

Passenger was contractually on plane, contract did not provide for removal in this manner. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #170

No, removal of properly boarded passengers requires specific causes Azathoth Apr 2017 #180

the flight was not "overbooked", it was full, and the airline wanted four of its employees niyad Apr 2017 #176

It's all about THE RULES! The RULES cannot be wrong, the RULES must always be obeyed. Warren DeMontague Apr 2017 #85

And: Trump won according to The Rules dalton99a Apr 2017 #94

It's a very authoritarian stance (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #112

And when THE RULES say the exact opposite thing, who cares? regnaD kciN Apr 2017 #169

A simple solution would be to up the financial incentive to the next person being bumped. Throck Apr 2017 #102

To me the point that is being lost is... Heartstrings Apr 2017 #109

I 100% agree with you nadine_mn Apr 2017 #111

Unfortunately it seems to be Heartstrings Apr 2017 #115

This norm needs to be changed regardless of what "the rules" say. (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #119

I agree 100% Heartstrings Apr 2017 #123

I suppose more customer resistance and outrage in the meantime bekkilyn Apr 2017 #125

Yes! Resist is the name of the game at this point in time...nt Heartstrings Apr 2017 #129

+1 (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #113

+1, it wasn't needed... they could've done something else and that would've been easier uponit7771 Apr 2017 #138

Speak with your wallet, it's all we have in a corpocracy HAB911 Apr 2017 #114

Yep, right wingers treestar Apr 2017 #117

You see them in spectacular display here too. Crazy... AgadorSparticus Apr 2017 #141

Agree Johnny2X2X Apr 2017 #126

You know what's really nuts? TexasBushwhacker Apr 2017 #127

The flight was delayed over 2 hrs (in part so they could "clean up") nadine_mn Apr 2017 #130

I agree we've become so use to it TNLib Apr 2017 #140

It especially happens to people of color. 6000eliot Apr 2017 #143

and the justifications for the "officers" behaviour, even on this board, is disgusting. niyad Apr 2017 #145

There are authoritarians on the left as well as the rights. Just follow orders. Obey. delisen Apr 2017 #161

I know, but it is depressing all the same to see it on the left. niyad Apr 2017 #172

I agree. delisen Apr 2017 #173

This is a fine analysis. United had so many options at so many points delisen Apr 2017 #152

There are companies that truly want to make a customer happy nadine_mn Apr 2017 #177

Standing tall against the customer is usually a mistake. Yeah there is some rule, but to go all The_Casual_Observer Apr 2017 #154

the pretzel twisted defense of the airline on this board has been disgusting. niyad Apr 2017 #175

I think that is why I am so upset about this nadine_mn Apr 2017 #178

we have had many socks and puppets in the past. and, I agree with you that the ready niyad Apr 2017 #181