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MineralMan

(151,198 posts)

74. The South tried. Many people died. The South lost.

Thu Apr 13, 2017, 12:47 PM

Apr 2017

End of story. Whether or not secession was constitutionally allowed is a moot point. The Civil War is over. The South lost.

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Post removed [View all] Post removed Apr 2017 OP

The founders provided a mechanism to add new states but no mechanism for them to leave. Statistical Apr 2017 #1

but if secession wasn't prohibited... eniwetok Apr 2017 #6

"leaving aside the rather tortured 1869 Texas v White decision" jberryhill Apr 2017 #2

Excellent (am *not* being sarcastic). So what about Scotland & Catalonia? UTUSN Apr 2017 #4

As they are not states of the USA, this is hardly relevant to us, is it? Hekate Apr 2017 #34

Extrapolating from the literal appears to be like taking UTUSN Apr 2017 #38

I am not familiar with the laws of the UK or Spain jberryhill Apr 2017 #68

texas v white is "rather tortured" because it doesn't give him the answer he was looking for. unblock Apr 2017 #5

pray tell, what answer was that??? eniwetok Apr 2017 #9

i read minds rather well whenever someone pretty much spells it out in an o.p. unblock Apr 2017 #15

your unremarkable talent seems to have missed MY OTHER ARGUMENT... eniwetok Apr 2017 #47

if you're not convinced by well settled law, i rather doubt a few internet replies will convince you unblock Apr 2017 #62

sure... eniwetok Apr 2017 #75

I take it you've never read Texas v White. eniwetok Apr 2017 #7

I was educated in Texas and the only odd thing I can remember is TexasProgresive Apr 2017 #8

I love your time machine "logic" eniwetok Apr 2017 #11

No, and if you actually read Texas v White, you would understand why jberryhill Apr 2017 #13

if you want to discuss citizenship start your own thread... eniwetok Apr 2017 #48

c'mon, you're just being argumentative for the sake of argumentation. unblock Apr 2017 #19

so leaving aside your temporal incongruity... eniwetok Apr 2017 #22

That one has stood for a long time jberryhill Apr 2017 #28

there's no temporal incongruity. unblock Apr 2017 #41

No, since the "confederates" lost the war. The American war for independence was legal because... PoliticAverse Apr 2017 #3

How many nations fell to Nazi Germany? eniwetok Apr 2017 #10

We're talking about "independence"/"secession" not invasions. Please keep to the topic. nt PoliticAverse Apr 2017 #12

Hey YOU were the one who raised the "might makes right" "doctrine" eniwetok Apr 2017 #21

First your post questioned what was "legal" not what might be "moral". PoliticAverse Apr 2017 #23

Is Russia Behind California Secession Effort? jberryhill Apr 2017 #14

RED HERRING ALERT!! eniwetok Apr 2017 #20

Quite a feat for a member since 2016 jberryhill Apr 2017 #24

Thank you, jberryhill. I so much prefer the fact-based universe. Hekate Apr 2017 #31

LOL! Adsos Letter Apr 2017 #39

RED HERRING ALERT #2 eniwetok Apr 2017 #50

You joined this site in 2016 and weren't posting in 2004 jberryhill Apr 2017 #51

promise you'll retract your accusation eniwetok Apr 2017 #64

Texit Forces Welcomed At A Russian Separatist Conference jberryhill Apr 2017 #66

Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #70

What was your DU name in '04? Hekate Apr 2017 #35

I'm sure some irrational few have jumped to the conclusion I was for the Confederacy. eniwetok Apr 2017 #16

No, that's not the conclusion at all jberryhill Apr 2017 #17

and those purposes are? eniwetok Apr 2017 #18

You are wrong jberryhill Apr 2017 #25

You don't know me... so quit trying to insinuate I'm a Putin Tool... eniwetok Apr 2017 #52

There's more than one way to destroy a nation, and Putin knows it. Leave my state alone. Hekate Apr 2017 #33

Well said, Hekate. Adsos Letter Apr 2017 #42

I AWAIT those who want to discuss the constitutional issues... so please stop your personal insults. eniwetok Apr 2017 #53

As long as nobody includes in such discussion the most relevant Constitutional decision on the topic jberryhill Apr 2017 #54

back to your fatuous time machine argument? eniwetok Apr 2017 #57

The "time machine argument" is only fatuous... jberryhill Apr 2017 #63

and yet the question was WAS SECESSION LEGAL IN 1861? eniwetok Apr 2017 #69

Quite obviously because you don't understand either the decision or how courts work jberryhill Apr 2017 #71

another pathetic argument... eniwetok Apr 2017 #72

And you're waiting in this time machine you keep brigning up whenever anyone addresses synergie Apr 2017 #84

At a certain level, law becomes nothing more than a social compact HopeAgain Apr 2017 #26

No you nailed it jberryhill Apr 2017 #29

back to your personal attacks? eniwetok Apr 2017 #61

Why do you believe the process of amending the Constitution is undemocratic? jberryhill Apr 2017 #65

do the math.... eniwetok Apr 2017 #77

So? jberryhill Apr 2017 #79

Because it takes more than a simple majority dumbcat Apr 2017 #80

if you can't make a point without bastardizing my argument... you haven't made a point eniwetok Apr 2017 #83

It's worth noting that the CSA preempted any possibility of legal secession by attacking. cemaphonic Apr 2017 #27

Yes, the question of legal secession was rendered moot by the firing on Sumpter... Rollo Apr 2017 #32

I believe the first state to secede was 5 months before Sumter eniwetok Apr 2017 #60

1. No 2. Yes. ismnotwasm Apr 2017 #30

I will quote Lincoln: Worktodo Apr 2017 #36

the term rebellion is only used ONCE prior to the 14th eniwetok Apr 2017 #56

absolutely, but you'll get no support from the authority-lovers here. "the consent of the governed" TheFrenchRazor Apr 2017 #37

The Constitution provides its own mechanism for Amendment jberryhill Apr 2017 #40

if you want to appeal to a "higher law", that's a different question. unblock Apr 2017 #43

Without the consent of the slaves, there was no legal right geek tragedy Apr 2017 #44

Ooooh, "authority-lovers," is it? You should trot on over to the United Airlines threads... Hekate Apr 2017 #45

Did the slaves consent to be governed? Adrahil Apr 2017 #55

I believe secession was legal Yupster Apr 2017 #46

NO, and YES hatrack Apr 2017 #49

The touchstone here is to find out... MicaelS Apr 2017 #58

Short answer is no. Buzz cook Apr 2017 #59

but the first state to secede was in Dec 1860... eniwetok Apr 2017 #73

And what legal mechanism did those states use? Buzz cook Apr 2017 #85

It seems to me the civil war was the whole poiint: to settle the issue more firmly. CTyankee Apr 2017 #67

The South tried. Many people died. The South lost. MineralMan Apr 2017 #74

Thanks for the op. Some very good replies. NCTraveler Apr 2017 #76

illegal and justified steve2470 Apr 2017 #78

seriously, WHY DEBATE THIS TOPIC ? steve2470 Apr 2017 #81

+1000 wcast Apr 2017 #82