General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,621 posts)

70. Any time we drop bombs, we also kill (or accept the possibility of death as collateral damge)

Fri Apr 14, 2017, 12:23 AM

Apr 2017

I responded to someone taking potshots at those of us who oppose military resolution of conflict - regardless of who is supports it. At this point, as to Syria, Clinton is an advocate of military action. Her current position is consistent with positions that put her near the bottom of my candidate list in the primary. There is no reason to apologize for expressing that opinion then, or now, or for that being one of the criteria I use when deciding which candidate to support.

My part in this conversation has nothing to do with third party candidates. It relates solely to being expected to apologize for believing Clinton is too quick to recommend resorting to military force - and to remind the poster who seemed to suggest that Clinton is not hawkish - that there are objective reasons for that concern; reasons confirmed just hours before Trump bombed the airfields in Syria.

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Before the nukes fly, FUCK YOU 3RD PARTY VOTERS ALL TO HELL! [View all] Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 OP

Where are the "Hillary is a warmonger" folks. nycbos Apr 2017 #1

Never, they wanted a republican all along, most of them. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #2

I'll just leave that opening alone. Ligyron Apr 2017 #194

I know several Trump voters, gordianot Apr 2017 #3

You do recall that she advocated bombing Syria shortly before Trump actually bombed it, right? n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #5

I think the poster is referring to a pre-emptive strike on N Korea which has nukes, but I could be.. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2017 #6

Correct Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #125

Please don't spread fake news and propoganda. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #9

+1 oasis Apr 2017 #10

It was strange, but SCVDem Apr 2017 #32

"Trump did what SOS Clinton recommended." ecstatic Apr 2017 #48

+1000 dchill Apr 2017 #63

I like the phrase SCVDem Apr 2017 #82

Do you think that Assad would have mercuryblues Apr 2017 #265

I didn't say she was for Trump's stunt. Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #38

No. It's not valid. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #52

My post ws a response to someone taking pot shots Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #62

It does not include Hillary Clinton. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #67

Did she, or did she not, recommend bombing the airfields in Syria? Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #74

Hillary had a strategy.. she rec bombing the airfields so Cha Apr 2017 #98

In other words, the answer is "Yes" Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #114

Hillary is being smart about this.. but NO the fucking Cha Apr 2017 #118

Your inability to stay on topic is astounding. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #183

You're inability to stay on the TOPIC of the OP is duly noted. Cha Apr 2017 #198

Exactly, WR.. ".. this shit is why we have the asshole Cha Apr 2017 #91

You stated, "Advocating the military resolution of conflicts is not a position I can ever support," politicaljunkie41910 Apr 2017 #240

If she has never been a war monger NobodyHere Apr 2017 #104

They all did... jazzcat23 Apr 2017 #185

Complete BS PassingFair Apr 2017 #258

Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Apr 2017 #250

So even after the last 90 days GulfCoast66 Apr 2017 #26

The post to which I responded was mocking people who previously expressed concerns Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #40

her recent statements and her record is not the same as Trump's JHan Apr 2017 #139

I never said there were. Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #179

Then... JHan Apr 2017 #189

"she would need a U/N coalition to enforce the no fly zone" Why? We didn't need one in Iraq from AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #184

Had your little rant? Good JHan Apr 2017 #186

Russia said 'stop it' in Iraq. Didn't stop us. Didn't stop Bill from continuing it. AtheistCrusader Apr 2017 #188

I get all of that but this is what I worry about.. JHan Apr 2017 #193

K & R x 100000 VigilantG Apr 2017 #227

She wanted to stop them from bombing kids by taking out the air planes and fields...not Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #42

Any time we drop bombs, we also kill (or accept the possibility of death as collateral damge) Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #70

not likely, since Hillary advocated a strike on Syria just hours before Trump fired the missiles virtualobserver Apr 2017 #56

That's been Hillary's strategy since the campaign.. Cha Apr 2017 #232

I understand that.... virtualobserver Apr 2017 #234

You know, a lot of the 'Hillary is a warmonger' folks, as you call them, were decent PatrickforO Apr 2017 #80

the Hillary is a warmonger folks were idiots who gave us trump Gothmog Apr 2017 #174

Susan Sarandon and Cornel West TSIAS Apr 2017 #4

Whatever, dude HopeAgain Apr 2017 #31

bingo Champion Jack Apr 2017 #39

Agreed BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #169

Susan Sarandon and Cornel West. LenaBaby61 Apr 2017 #81

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable" Cha Apr 2017 #95

Nobody said that shit. They fucking helped. Cha Apr 2017 #93

two people are responsible for the end of the world? The Big Ragu Apr 2017 #123

They are obviously the anti-christ and the false prophet. (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #141

How are multiple people tazkcmo Apr 2017 #145

Whoa colsohlibgal Apr 2017 #7

It is the third party...last time they gave us United...now they gifted us nukes... Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #43

Breathe... Baconator Apr 2017 #8

No. I agree with the OP. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #11

People are responsible for their individual vote... Baconator Apr 2017 #13

If people were too fucking stupid to understand the stakes in this election WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #14

I suspect they don't care about your forgiveness... Baconator Apr 2017 #16

And I don't really give a shit if they do or not. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #17

So make a stronger case and bring them to our side... Baconator Apr 2017 #18

No. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #19

Some of them think you all already sacrificed many of those beliefs HopeAgain Apr 2017 #36

Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #55

You Say Idealistic ProfessorGAC Apr 2017 #117

So he is expected to go along, in lock step HopeAgain Apr 2017 #120

Hilarious ProfessorGAC Apr 2017 #122

This message was self-deleted by its author HopeAgain Apr 2017 #132

Selfish? HopeAgain Apr 2017 #134

Do You Do Stand-Up? ProfessorGAC Apr 2017 #160

Me? HopeAgain Apr 2017 #163

This kind of sanctimony is utterly unconvincing and has been since Nader in 2000 stevenleser Apr 2017 #204

Clearly you know nothing about being sanctimonious HopeAgain Apr 2017 #238

Nope, not when it comes to preventing lunatics from getting their hands on nukes and stevenleser Apr 2017 #241

So well said! mcar Apr 2017 #152

+1000 bekkilyn Apr 2017 #144

That dog will no longer hunt here. GulfCoast66 Apr 2017 #33

Having seen such individuals justify their BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #187

It's this "my way or the highway" purity BS... Baconator Apr 2017 #190

I am afraid that it is YOU BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #191

What's the old saying? Baconator Apr 2017 #192

Exactly, Blue.. those who throw "smack" around like Cha Apr 2017 #216

As long as propagandists are willing to dissemble lapucelle Apr 2017 #34

Let me guess - - you want us to get on our knees Charles Bukowski Apr 2017 #59

I think you should be able to make a convincing case... Baconator Apr 2017 #71

Is anyone arguing otherwise... or are you simply attempting to look relevant and clever? LanternWaste Apr 2017 #112

There seems to be little interest in gaining... Baconator Apr 2017 #166

That's because sanctimony is completely unpersuasive. nt stevenleser Apr 2017 #205

So do it sans sanctimony... Baconator Apr 2017 #223

We don't use sanctimony so we are doing just fine. nt stevenleser Apr 2017 #242

yup Champion Jack Apr 2017 #41

Nope the third party assholes who claim to be progressive but allowed Trump Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #44

on candidate had RUSSIA AND THE FBI AGAINST HER Skittles Apr 2017 #90

People would rather blame anyone other than a candidate's responsibility to earn votes bekkilyn Apr 2017 #142

WE are and We have a Right to Rant while doing so. Cha Apr 2017 #101

Wont be able to when the bombs hit and the bombs will be the fault of 3rd party Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #126

+1000 kairos12 Apr 2017 #12

Anybody seen the On the Beach. Demtexan Apr 2017 #15

Yes, I saw the movie, the TV series, and read the book. classof56 Apr 2017 #20

I saw that movie when a little kid. Demtexan Apr 2017 #22

T.V. Series? busterbrown Apr 2017 #178

It was an Australian TV special in 2000. classof56 Apr 2017 #221

thanks. and got it.. n/t busterbrown Apr 2017 #222

Good book by English/Australian novelist Nevil Shute. VOX Apr 2017 #21

I just saw movie. Demtexan Apr 2017 #24

Posts like this will do a lot to being them back to voting for Democrats. Gore1FL Apr 2017 #23

If they didn't vote for the Democrats in this election, WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #27

So you want to keep them voting for other people than your candidate? Gore1FL Apr 2017 #37

Fuck them...they didn't vote for our candidate and can never be trusted... Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #45

+1 oasis Apr 2017 #50

So you'd prefer they vote GOP? Gore1FL Apr 2017 #88

Don't you mean "our" candidate. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #58

Assuming the you want the Democratic candidate. Gore1FL Apr 2017 #87

Right? shanti Apr 2017 #79

Eating a tuna salad will do just as much as well. LanternWaste Apr 2017 #113

I am not sure what tuna salad has to do with not shunning potential allies in future elections Gore1FL Apr 2017 #121

Familiar, so if I dont kiss your ass you will vote to kill the human race...sigh Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #128

I am saying it's not a good strategy to alienate people that you need help from. Gore1FL Apr 2017 #148

No, you are saying if we arent nice to you , well you will just show us! Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #149

I voted for Clinton in 2016. Your misdirected animosity is getting worse. nt Gore1FL Apr 2017 #162

no matter, what matters is the attitude, non unity...not my doing. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #164

Bombastic attacks on would-be Democratic voters is not helpful, however. Gore1FL Apr 2017 #167

this is why Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #168

I'd prefer not to repeat those results. That's why it important to build rather than burn bridges. Gore1FL Apr 2017 #181

If you won't vote against a lunatic who might destroy us all because your ego isn't assuaged stevenleser Apr 2017 #206

Personally, I prefer winning to whining. Gore1FL Apr 2017 #210

Not according to the record. nt stevenleser Apr 2017 #211

So you think attacking me, despite voting for Clinton in 2016 is a good idea too? Gore1FL Apr 2017 #224

Never have to use it VigilantG Apr 2017 #25

I understand the anger Lotusflower70 Apr 2017 #28

All very well and good but not giving these third party traitors a pass. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #46

I know Lotusflower70 Apr 2017 #53

Deal with? How? Trump has the nukes, our chance to DEAL with this was in November. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #129

I hear you Lotusflower70 Apr 2017 #155

Normally I try to break up the fighting retrowire Apr 2017 #29

Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #60

Such a strange thing to say for someone who's been a member for a day! Docreed2003 Apr 2017 #68

Isn't it? Warren DeMontague Apr 2017 #69

Scam election anyway. triron Apr 2017 #30

Wow. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #61

I've read that the 3rd party votes would NOT have made a difference.. vkkv Apr 2017 #35

You read one of their self serving posts...if you look at the numbers...there Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #47

This Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2017 #51

Show us the links please vkkv Apr 2017 #57

Here are the numbers. You and Demsrule86 are BOTH wrong. Jim Lane Apr 2017 #75

Those #'s mean zilch. It is a big "IF" that 3rd party voters would have voted for HRC vkkv Apr 2017 #124

For every 3rd party vote in that election there were two people who decided NOT to vote Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #130

The numbers mean a little bit more than zilch, but certainly don't tell the whole story Jim Lane Apr 2017 #153

If 3rd party Assholes like stein and sarandon hadn't LIED Cha Apr 2017 #218

Every vote makes a difference. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #64

Oh, because you "read it".. it's true? Go ahead and Cha Apr 2017 #94

Prove it. betsuni Apr 2017 #96

It won't do any good. They'll go to their radioactive graves smugly congratulating themselves Aristus Apr 2017 #49

Ridiculous to attack and insult people who did not vote for Trump. Doodley Apr 2017 #54

They failed to vote for the only candidate capable of Charles Bukowski Apr 2017 #65

It is called democracy. Do you believe in it? Doodley Apr 2017 #83

Absolutely. What does that have to do with anything? Charles Bukowski Apr 2017 #85

Thank you for trump, thank you very much. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #131

Yes, and we believe we can hold people responsible for their votes and decisions stevenleser Apr 2017 #207

It's called Getting Suckered in by LIES.. Being the Cha Apr 2017 #230

so if you buy into a lie, assuming that happened, should you be damned to hell for it? By what logic JCanete Apr 2017 #246

No. It's not. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #66

I agree Trump is the biggest asshole, but you don't win people over by insulting them. Doodley Apr 2017 #84

Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #86

"Winning over" "Kissing asses and begging" NastyRiffraff Apr 2017 #143

That's not how voting or even math works PDittie Apr 2017 #103

Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #72

Appropriate to attack assholes like this.. sarandon:.. Cha Apr 2017 #92

He is gonna kill either all humans or just a few million. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #133

Of course he'd like to kill us for not voting for him and Cha Apr 2017 #196

And there is NO DIFFERENCE MFM008 Apr 2017 #73

They look like stupid assholes while the Planet Cha Apr 2017 #99

Hell is 3rd party voters. betsuni Apr 2017 #76

Let's hope that the nukes NEVER fly, shall we. PatrickforO Apr 2017 #77

This MOAb is just the "taster" it didn't work they are laughing at dump. The_Casual_Observer Apr 2017 #78

Fuck every last enabler. nt JTFrog Apr 2017 #89

Yeah, Fuck OFF ALL the Enablers for this Fucking Bullshit Cha Apr 2017 #97

Even now, there are those who coddle them, validate them and make excuses for them... NurseJackie Apr 2017 #106

Nope.. stein voters were LOW information voters.. the pawn for putin Cha Apr 2017 #109

I wont be able to watch my family grow up, because of posters in THIS THREAD Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #135

Which posters in this thread voted third party or not at all? Marengo Apr 2017 #257

Mahalo, Eliot!!! Cha Apr 2017 #100

If you are a Democrat and you voted, but didn't vote for the DEMOCRATIC democratisphere Apr 2017 #102

THANKS Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #136

You attract more flies with honey than vinegar you know NobodyHere Apr 2017 #105

NObody wants stupid flies. Cha Apr 2017 #111

Thread win! mcar Apr 2017 #154

Aloha, mcar Cha Apr 2017 #197

Flies don't vote. betsuni Apr 2017 #115

and you kill more with a fly swatter than you do with kindness... Phentex Apr 2017 #119

Most Stein voters are fake progressives Bradical79 Apr 2017 #107

What about the former Obama voters? vi5 Apr 2017 #108

According to people here, they don't exist bekkilyn Apr 2017 #146

Well, the people here... vi5 Apr 2017 #147

There will *ALWAYS* be 3rd party voters. ALWAYS. Might as well yell at water for running down hill. yodermon Apr 2017 #110

Agreed.. disillusioned73 Apr 2017 #137

Yeah, and there will always be LYING A$$ Privilege ELITE.. Cha Apr 2017 #228

+1000000 nt Sunsky Apr 2017 #116

Nope, it's not the 3rd party voters jodymarie aimee Apr 2017 #127

It's also the LYING A$$ Privilege Elite who Sucker Cha Apr 2017 #229

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2017 #138

100 million + Trump and non-voters ought to partake of the blame. n/t Orsino Apr 2017 #140

What? Blame Trump voters for putting Trump in office? Mariana Apr 2017 #161

*ANYONE* who played a role putting that orange piece of SHIT into office Skittles Apr 2017 #180

And yet, the OP doesn't call them all out. Mariana Apr 2017 #199

I don't give a fuck what the OP misses Skittles Apr 2017 #214

And those of us who could have done more, but didn't. Orsino Apr 2017 #251

This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Apr 2017 #253

Are we going to have to deal with this attitude in 2018 and 2020 too? Kentonio Apr 2017 #150

This message was self-deleted by its author Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #151

Depends, will sanctimony again win over common sense for some? stevenleser Apr 2017 #208

Ok Steve.. Kentonio Apr 2017 #213

And you keep defending crappy decision that may destroy us all. stevenleser Apr 2017 #261

Just explain to me how saying 'fuck you' to 3rd party voters Kentonio Apr 2017 #263

I hear that there are enough suburban Republicans voters ready to change parties... That Guy 888 Apr 2017 #220

Susan Sarandon: Trump more likely to bring 'revolution' than Clinton workinclasszero Apr 2017 #156

Saw her on Colbert and nearly ran head first into my TV. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #157

Yup workinclasszero Apr 2017 #158

um yeah, not in a good way. What's your point. She wasn't saying that Trump was going to be a good JCanete Apr 2017 #247

I ignore these kinds of threads Wednesdays Apr 2017 #159

Yes and no, I see your point but since we now know the same thing Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #165

Yeah, I see you're "ignoring" it. Cha Apr 2017 #217

A vote for stein or Johnson was a vote for trump Gothmog Apr 2017 #170

Thank you, it is dangerous for me to say that but I am glad you did. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #172

Do these idiots are not done Gothmog Apr 2017 #175

what a wonderfully anti-democratic sentiment. nt tomp Apr 2017 #182

It's not undemocratic at all. That poster didn't say the vote should be illegal stevenleser Apr 2017 #209

there is an intimidating tone behind this entire thread... tomp Apr 2017 #215

LOL betsuni Apr 2017 #219

Judging from some of the responses to this OP.... BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #171

they accomplished their jobs, I have been put on notice to cut it out Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #173

Ah yes, if we don't join in the two minutes of hate Kentonio Apr 2017 #200

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable" Cha Apr 2017 #202

Maybe I missed a post Kentonio Apr 2017 #212

Whomever with a gd agenda. Cha Apr 2017 #203

The Obama Years: The Power of Words. The Smithsonian Channel has this documentary, and I cannot still_one Apr 2017 #176

Vote Democratic! Cary Apr 2017 #177

Wait, I thought it was all Bernie's fault. Ligyron Apr 2017 #195

Yeah you are. Cha Apr 2017 #201

It's easier to grab and attack scapegoats at random than to build coalitions. Gore1FL Apr 2017 #225

Never mind that insanity definition. HILLARY 2020! It's time for a woman in the White House! brewens Apr 2017 #226

Uncalled for. People make mistakes, or just evolve how they think on things. We have JCanete Apr 2017 #231

If only the next Democratic candidate for president in the general election betsuni Apr 2017 #233

Brilliant post, betsuni.. Mahalo! Cha Apr 2017 #235

Thanks! betsuni Apr 2017 #236

Excellent! Thank you, betsuni. R B Garr Apr 2017 #239

I don't know what you're trying to say. There are some that didn't trust Clinton's intentions. JCanete Apr 2017 #244

How many times do we need to "Let it go"? How many idiots and lunatics need to be elected? stevenleser Apr 2017 #243

Next time will be some of the same people and some different people. It is people's right JCanete Apr 2017 #245

No, that doesn't work. None of that makes sense. stevenleser Apr 2017 #254

Good luck on your inspiring campaign. nt JCanete Apr 2017 #256

And your defense of a course that may lead to nuclear holocaust is!? nt stevenleser Apr 2017 #260

that your approach certainly did not help to avert it. nt JCanete Apr 2017 #262

Sure it did and obviously so. Just think on it, you'll get it eventually. nt stevenleser Apr 2017 #264

"That's one ugly baby you got there". ZX86 Apr 2017 #237

This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Apr 2017 #248

I'm sure the feeling is nmutual. GliderGuider Apr 2017 #249

I am sure you are right, that their feeling is allowing the worst human being alive to be Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #259

stein: On war, trump is safer than Clinton.. Cha Apr 2017 #252

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2017 #255