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EX500rider

(10,952 posts)
39. Downtown Seoul is 26 miles from the closest border point...
Mon Apr 17, 2017, 03:51 PM
Apr 2017

......no mortars have that range. Most of N Korean artillery doesn't have that range.
A small portion of their artillery could reach, not enough to kill everybody in the city though.

Here'a more realistic assessment:


The North Korean military's most powerful tool is artillery. It cannot level Seoul as some reports have claimed, but it could do significant damage. Pyongyang risks deteriorating its forces by exposing them to return fire, however, which significantly restricts their use. Less conventional methods of retaliation, such as sabotage or cyber warfare, are less risky but also limit the shock that North Korea would desire.
After a strike, North Korea's most immediate and expected method of retaliation would center around conventional artillery. Many of the North's indirect fire systems are already located on or near the border with South Korea. By virtue of proximity and simplicity, these systems have a lower preparatory and response times than air assets, larger ballistic missiles or naval assets. Nevertheless, there are several critical limitations to their effectiveness.

The biggest anticipated cost of a North Korean artillery barrage in response to an attack would be the at least partial destruction of Seoul. But the volume of fire that the North can direct against the South Korean capital is limited by some important factors. Of the vast artillery force deployed by the North along the border, only a small portion — Koksan 170-mm self-propelled guns, as well as 240-mm and 300-mm multiple launch rocket systems — are capable of actually reaching Seoul. Broadly speaking, the bulk of Pyongyang's artillery can reach only into the northern border area of South Korea or the northern outskirts of Seoul. All forms of North Korean artillery have problems with volume and effectiveness of fire, but those issues are often more pronounced for the longer-range systems. Problems include the high malfunction rate of indigenous ammunition, poorly trained artillery crews, and a reluctance to expend critical artillery assets by exposing their positions.
Based on the few artillery skirmishes that have occurred, roughly 25 percent of North Korean shells and rockets fail to detonate on target. Even allowing for improvements and assuming a massive counterstrike artillery volley would be more successful, a failure rate as high as 15 percent would take a significant bite out of the actual explosive power on target. The rate of fire and accuracy of North Korean artillery systems is also expected to be subpar. This belief is founded on the observably poor performance of North Korean artillery crews during past skirmishes and exercises. Though inaccuracy is less noticeable in a tactical sense — especially as part of a "countervalue attack," where civilian areas are targeted — at the higher level an artillery retaliation rapidly becomes a numbers game.

Ineffective crews also rapidly curtail the potential for severe damage. Rate of fire is crucial to the survivability of artillery systems — the name of the game is to get the most rounds on target in the shortest period of time, lest your position be identified and destroyed before the fire mission is complete. Poor training translates to a greatly reduced volume of fire and a painfully limited duration of effectiveness.


https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/how-north-korea-would-retaliate

"Nobody knew international relations could be so complicated!" randome Apr 2017 #1
"Everyone else knew" will be the afterword. L. Coyote Apr 2017 #3
"Hillary knew" Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2017 #5
Don't forget their nuclear submarine off the California coast. L. Coyote Apr 2017 #2
I assume u r joking since they have no such thing... EX500rider Apr 2017 #17
I assume u r joking since they do have such a thing... L. Coyote Apr 2017 #20
N Korea has zero "nuclear subs"... EX500rider Apr 2017 #26
If you say so, then it must be impossible. L. Coyote Apr 2017 #36
If you have any links to N Korean "atomic subs off Calif"... EX500rider Apr 2017 #40
So, it is possible if it is linked somewhere on the internet? L. Coyote Apr 2017 #43
No, I don't think their are such links that don't lead to wacko websites. EX500rider Apr 2017 #51
Yeah lets not think about that at all, just bombs away Fuhrer Trump! workinclasszero Apr 2017 #19
Did Kim pick up a boomer sarisataka Apr 2017 #24
South Korea says NK has tested a sub-based ballistic missile LastLiberal in PalmSprings Apr 2017 #66
Yes they did. workinclasszero Apr 2017 #70
Is that sub sarisataka Apr 2017 #72
I guess D and E haven't been tested yet but in an all out war with the US I'm sure they would be workinclasszero Apr 2017 #73
Prototypes with theoretical sarisataka Apr 2017 #76
OOPS HAB911 Apr 2017 #74
See my above answer nt sarisataka Apr 2017 #77
What sub? -nt Bradical79 Apr 2017 #79
they don't even pretend to have a policy. spanone Apr 2017 #4
Trump doesn't have to do anything except stop acting like an idiot. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #6
How does playing nuclear chicken end? ananda Apr 2017 #7
Really though, don't they see that? MGKrebs Apr 2017 #8
Bush, et. ignored the part about what would happen next in Iraq Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2017 #10
Why should they care? Orrex Apr 2017 #14
How exactly would N Korea kill 50% of the S Korean population? EX500rider Apr 2017 #31
I guess it's just a paltry 14 million Orrex Apr 2017 #35
Downtown Seoul is 26 miles from the closest border point... EX500rider Apr 2017 #39
From your link: MGKrebs Apr 2017 #41
Hence S Korea going ahead with the ABM system THAAD against Chinese objections. EX500rider Apr 2017 #42
You seem intent on reassuring us that NK is not a problem. MGKrebs Apr 2017 #44
Just not a WWIII problem like many seem to think.. EX500rider Apr 2017 #47
I don't recall mentioning WWIII in my posts Orrex Apr 2017 #57
Lots of WWIII mentions in this thread, not u specifically. EX500rider Apr 2017 #59
And my point is what comes after. MGKrebs Apr 2017 #58
Apparently their has been some work in that regard: EX500rider Apr 2017 #64
No. ananda Apr 2017 #21
Shall we play a game? underpants Apr 2017 #28
You're right Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2017 #9
They want to be seen puffing up their chests maxsolomon Apr 2017 #11
I hope you are right. MGKrebs Apr 2017 #25
They expect it to end with the fall of NK Egnever Apr 2017 #12
Yeah but what does "fall of NK" mean to them? MGKrebs Apr 2017 #45
all problems to the orange menace look like the nuclear football. nt Javaman Apr 2017 #13
Billions of dollars Bayard Apr 2017 #15
"50,000 people die" workinclasszero Apr 2017 #16
I agree. Un clearly has no regard for his own people underpants Apr 2017 #29
Nearly 24 million people live in the Seoul area. panader0 Apr 2017 #34
Pence expects Jesus to show up to save him. . . no lie.. annabanana Apr 2017 #18
Geez ananda Apr 2017 #22
No, we will not "kick their butts". Our nation will be brought to its knees if he starts WWIII. NurseJackie Apr 2017 #23
I know. This would be unlikely to be a few cruise missiles and then... what? MGKrebs Apr 2017 #27
N Korea has zero chance of "bringing our nation to it's knees" EX500rider Apr 2017 #32
You're correct. That's why they call them "world" "wars"... NurseJackie Apr 2017 #46
China and Russia aren't about to commit military suicide over N Korea. EX500rider Apr 2017 #48
It will be WWIII. We will pay a heavy price. NurseJackie Apr 2017 #49
From what? EX500rider Apr 2017 #50
Well all-righty then. It's a go! Green light! Let's nuke North Korea! NurseJackie Apr 2017 #52
Who's talking about nuking N Korea? EX500rider Apr 2017 #54
So why wait? Let's start a war! The sooner the better! Woo-hoo! Fun! NurseJackie Apr 2017 #56
Fuck yeah! USA USA USA!!! workinclasszero Apr 2017 #71
there's zero thought or planning in this. they operate on instinct. nk misbehaves, we get tough. unblock Apr 2017 #30
+1 MGKrebs Apr 2017 #62
The Acronym MIHOP comes to mind n/t n2doc Apr 2017 #33
North Korea is capable of launching an EMP attack over the USA. mackdaddy Apr 2017 #37
They might have that capability in the next 10 years or so....if we let them.. EX500rider Apr 2017 #53
I hope you are right, but they have the working components now. mackdaddy Apr 2017 #61
They want China to freak out over the possibility of a nuclear war on their doorstep Calista241 Apr 2017 #38
Here's how it ends. roamer65 Apr 2017 #55
What do you think US policy should be with respect to NK? oberliner Apr 2017 #60
I think the goal is to keep people from getting killed. MGKrebs Apr 2017 #67
If we go to full-out war with North Korea, more than 50,000 people will die. That's the problem. Warren DeMontague Apr 2017 #63
What makes yoy think "we" are going to "kick their butts"? Our military has not won a single KingCharlemagne Apr 2017 #65
Exactly! What does "winning" actually mean? MGKrebs Apr 2017 #68
What conflict did US forces lose? EX500rider Apr 2017 #69
Straw man. MGKrebs Apr 2017 #78
Well the opposite of won is generally lost.. EX500rider Apr 2017 #81
Ah, good. This is exactly the discussion I was looking for. MGKrebs Apr 2017 #83
Oh I expect China would install a puppet government.. EX500rider Apr 2017 #84
Well to me every day you are not dropping bombs and MGKrebs Apr 2017 #86
When you fail in your stated objective you lose -nt Bradical79 Apr 2017 #80
see post #81 EX500rider Apr 2017 #82
And when did that happen? EX500rider Apr 2017 #88
The more common term for the potential fate of the South Korean capital, HAB911 Apr 2017 #75
[Insert Joker meme about looking like a guy with a plan.] Orsino Apr 2017 #85
war. republicans LOVE it. it allows them to destroy government while the people remain patriotic spanone Apr 2017 #87
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