General Discussion

rateyes

(17,460 posts)

99. I am well aware that the rights not specified to the federal govt throughthe

Mon Jul 2, 2012, 08:39 PM

Jul 2012

constitution, nor prohibited by it are reserved to the states. in the op i did not refer to the FEDERAL government specifically. I said the government. The government of the state o GA mandates that I purchase auto insurance if i want access to the public highways and will penalize me if I dont purchase it.

The constitution of the USA allows the federal government to levy a tax penalty on me if I access the health care system but have not purcased health insurance.

I did not intend to start a debate on states rights vs the pwer of the federal govt.

My assertion is that there are products that the government, be it state or fedral, mandates that I purchase with much greater penalty than those in the ACA law if I want access to the services provided.

Having to purchase a product fr access to a service is not a unique concept.

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"...first time the government has forced us to buy a product" MY ASS! [View all] rateyes Jul 2012 OP

We're all forced to buy Medicare, too. TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #1

true rateyes Jul 2012 #3

And most of us are impatiently waiting dragonlady Jul 2012 #25

Medicare is not a third party for profit company. former9thward Jul 2012 #75

ever heard of part d? rateyes Jul 2012 #103

Fail. former9thward Jul 2012 #105

yes it is. so is health insurance. rateyes Jul 2012 #107

No health insurance is mandated. former9thward Jul 2012 #160

you do pay a penalty for part d rateyes Jul 2012 #164

No, but what's your point? You're forced to pay into... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #126

Except that the private entities are mass murderers n/t eridani Jul 2012 #140

Maybe being forced to pay a for profit insurance company is just quibling to you. former9thward Jul 2012 #162

so you would rather that my insurance premiums rise rateyes Jul 2012 #166

I would call it a win if I thought for one minute the premiums former9thward Jul 2012 #167

medical loss ratio and the mandate is all about cost. rateyes Jul 2012 #168

There's a tax on clothing in most states. There's tax on gas, spirits, and cigarettes. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #2

yep rateyes Jul 2012 #4

Food is taxed in Tennessee. eom Fawke Em Jul 2012 #5

Even fresh produce? HopeHoops Jul 2012 #13

yes full rate all food d_r Jul 2012 #85

TN doesnt have income tax, though. rateyes Jul 2012 #124

Which is backwards. Fawke Em Jul 2012 #129

NC does obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #149

Well THAT fucking sucks. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #152

yup d_r Jul 2012 #161

Food is also taxed in Idaho jmowreader Jul 2012 #125

But the federal government is not forcing me to buy clothing, gas or cigarettes. xoom Jul 2012 #138

Not having healthcare is a sign of stupidity. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #155

Food is taxed here obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #148

Still don't see where you are forced to buy a for profit product from a private company. NCTraveler Jul 2012 #6

name a state without it, rateyes Jul 2012 #31

State. You said it. NCTraveler Jul 2012 #37

state is government rateyes Jul 2012 #49

You don't know the Constitution, do you? former9thward Jul 2012 #77

States cannot pass laws contrary to the federal Constitution. rateyes Jul 2012 #101

Your have a lack of knowledge about the Constitution. former9thward Jul 2012 #106

show me in the op where i ever used the word federal. rateyes Jul 2012 #111

Of course you did not use the word federal. former9thward Jul 2012 #163

the post wasnt designed to be a states rights argument. rateyes Jul 2012 #165

and, i never said that the states didnt have the right to do things the feds cant. rateyes Jul 2012 #116

Gray area. The 10th does give the right to states that aren't assigned to the federal level. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #156

Tell me the average American gives a flying shit about state vs federal jurisdiction. What Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2012 #114

hi friend rateyes Jul 2012 #119

I know....How are ya ?? Exciting times Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2012 #151

good for you!! rateyes Jul 2012 #154

"What in the hell does it matter if the outcome is the same." NCTraveler Jul 2012 #141

Not my point though. My point is that these people are hiding behind Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2012 #150

Who owns the highway system? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #73

Most states require proof of financial responsibility - not necessarily private insurance Crabby Appleton Jul 2012 #95

Medicare part D PADemD Jul 2012 #48

good point rateyes Jul 2012 #59

You are allowed to buy from non-profit co-ops if you want. boppers Jul 2012 #127

Well, I do understand the accusation..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #7

They are penalized if they refuse to get a driver's or hunting license. They can't sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #10

Well, even if I wanted it that way..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #16

If I'm the one with the mandate then why must I purchase it from my employer TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #22

Most employers will continue to provide for employee health care insurance since sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #32

which is why we needed the public option rateyes Jul 2012 #35

Buying insurance through an employer will be less expensive.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #43

The problem PatSeg Jul 2012 #8

I have a problem with buying from private insurance companies..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #12

My confidence PatSeg Jul 2012 #23

Yep, ignorance of the facts is the great wall.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #34

Yes, painful but inevitable PatSeg Jul 2012 #41

Exactly... soccer1 Jul 2012 #44

I would prefer to give my money to the gov for single payor Marrah_G Jul 2012 #15

I agree!! soccer1 Jul 2012 #17

+1,000!!! Zalatix Jul 2012 #18

Same here PatSeg Jul 2012 #54

you can choose to drive, hunt or fish CleanLucre Jul 2012 #9

Bingo. Zalatix Jul 2012 #19

We wanted a victory SO BAD, we didnt care what we won Puzzledtraveller Jul 2012 #39

It is more PatSeg Jul 2012 #24

with ACA CleanLucre Jul 2012 #28

once you have coverage CleanLucre Jul 2012 #30

You ask very good questions, PatSeg Jul 2012 #67

and that's to bad CleanLucre Jul 2012 #74

I know PatSeg Jul 2012 #100

In Oregon, we passed laws that give you a choice to have a dead body. boppers Jul 2012 #130

And I'm sure those "dead bodies" PatSeg Jul 2012 #143

Moreover, in my state, you don't even need insurance to drive on public roads. Occulus Jul 2012 #26

No, and you can't choose whether or not you will end up Arkana Jul 2012 #36

that's not the point CleanLucre Jul 2012 #46

Exactly what Justice Ginsburg pointed out: treestar Jul 2012 #55

Define "healthy" CleanLucre Jul 2012 #58

Anybody can end up in the ER at any time. treestar Jul 2012 #84

People who are uninsured yet can afford insurance.. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #113

They still can't pay it treestar Jul 2012 #117

you can choose to go to doctor or not, rateyes Jul 2012 #40

the OP's analogy doesn't work CleanLucre Jul 2012 #47

You can choose whether or not you are going to go to a doctor treestar Jul 2012 #53

you can choose to drive, hunt or fish. you can't choose to have a body CleanLucre Jul 2012 #56

Following your course of logic, food should be a non-profit enterprise. Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #81

Try following the OPs course of logic CleanLucre Jul 2012 #87

Yes, health care is optional, eating is not. Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #91

you are confused CleanLucre Jul 2012 #94

That was the point. Everyone needs health care treestar Jul 2012 #86

i once owned a house in a flood plain... spanone Jul 2012 #11

Yes, I live in a flood prone area, but... soccer1 Jul 2012 #14

that's because CleanLucre Jul 2012 #20

have to buy pmi rateyes Jul 2012 #42

No that is your mortgage company requiring that not the government. former9thward Jul 2012 #79

Your bank required flood insurance... meaculpa2011 Jul 2012 #21

Yes there are PatSeg Jul 2012 #27

Provided through. Not required by. The difference is important. n/t Igel Jul 2012 #60

It is an important distinction PatSeg Jul 2012 #65

It's administered by the federal government. meaculpa2011 Jul 2012 #142

That really sucks PatSeg Jul 2012 #144

it was govt subsidized ins. spanone Jul 2012 #61

The big deal is bupkus Jul 2012 #29

I don't think so..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #38

Horseshit. Auto insurance, home insurance... Arkana Jul 2012 #33

Imagine you're on the 3rd rung of a ladder. Igel Jul 2012 #63

Government does not force you to buy home insurance oldhippie Jul 2012 #72

We're also forced to pay for the military Industral complex which KILLS people around the world Auntie Bush Jul 2012 #45

I'm forced to work about 1 out of 8 hours per day for the military machine. Gregorian Jul 2012 #50

I just had to pay taxes to my city and state at the grocery store randr Jul 2012 #51

Federal vs. State government, guys. Basic civics. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #52

I am shocked at how many people don't understand the difference joeglow3 Jul 2012 #57

Another shocker. Igel Jul 2012 #64

"States rights" was changed back at the civil war. boppers Jul 2012 #133

Please explain how. joeglow3 Jul 2012 #146

it is still government forcing the purchase of a product from private rateyes Jul 2012 #62

The way the Constitution was written joeglow3 Jul 2012 #68

Governments have "powers" not "rights" oldhippie Jul 2012 #76

Your homework is to look up "Federalism" and understand how it applies to this question. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #69

i know what federalism is. I am simply rateyes Jul 2012 #90

You don't *really* understand the subject, if you don't understand that what you posted is wrong... Romulox Jul 2012 #93

Yeah I really understand rateyes Jul 2012 #96

That understanding isn't reflected in the OP or your subsequent replies. Supreme Court Cases Romulox Jul 2012 #97

I am well aware that the rights not specified to the federal govt throughthe rateyes Jul 2012 #99

In each example there is no universal mandate. TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #66

and you arent required to buy insurance rateyes Jul 2012 #104

There is no prohibition against speeding, you just pay the fine if you do TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #158

You never have to go to a hospital or doctor, either. boppers Jul 2012 #134

You are accessed the penalty even if you don't TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #159

You are NOT required to buy car insurance oldhippie Jul 2012 #70

nitpicking rateyes Jul 2012 #92

What is law? oldhippie Jul 2012 #108

its a difference without a distinction. rateyes Jul 2012 #109

No, it is not .... oldhippie Jul 2012 #110

you are purchasing a bond from the state rateyes Jul 2012 #112

No, you are not purchasing anything ..... oldhippie Jul 2012 #153

then they will just change the argument and tell you "yes, but those are state taxes" notadmblnd Jul 2012 #71

We're forced to buy smoke detectors for our homes and seatbelts for our cars. n/t Ian David Jul 2012 #78

You are forced to buy neither homes nor cars. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #115

Right, and if you live off the grid, you don't have to buy insurance. boppers Jul 2012 #132

We have to live SOMEWHERE, and all those places have smoke detectors. Ian David Jul 2012 #147

The difference is Turbineguy Jul 2012 #80

Even if you don't want access to health care, you have to buy it. hughee99 Jul 2012 #82

The biggest expense we're forced to pay for is WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR. valerief Jul 2012 #83

Better response: So WHAT if it IS the "first time"? NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #88

It won't be the LAST time, that's "so what". nt Romulox Jul 2012 #89

And? NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #98

Some history on that with this link. Gotta be careful invoking the founders. brewens Jul 2012 #102

You will never convince me that this is good policy. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #118

No one has to. Lex Jul 2012 #122

Well this thread surely has been an eye opener if nothing else. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #120

..or for-profit and non-profit, for that matter. boppers Jul 2012 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author Herlong Jul 2012 #121

What About When George Washington............... ChoppinBroccoli Jul 2012 #123

The 'gun mandate' was not for every American, it was for 'able bodied men'. Bluenorthwest Jul 2012 #157

I predict this thread will heat up soon. Rain Mcloud Jul 2012 #128

objects or collection of services... loyalsister Jul 2012 #131

They forced us to buy a war in Iraq too. (Though some of us didn't buy it then.) Kablooie Jul 2012 #135

Not the same, sorry. xoom Jul 2012 #137

That sinister bastard Obama. He did this to set the stage for Single Payer. Kennah Jul 2012 #139

Even those who DON'T drive use the streets and sidewalks lame54 Jul 2012 #145