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unblock

(56,206 posts)
23. i really think this horse is dead now, but if you really want further analysis:
Thu Jul 5, 2012, 09:09 PM
Jul 2012

actually, you asked two questions:

first, "without the President's actions, would ACA have passed through Congress's needle's eye?"

no. in fact i already addressed this by saying that obama was the "sine qua non". meaning it would not have passed were it not for him. that makes him the prime enabler of passage, but it doesn't make him the entity that passed it.


second: "What single person on earth did more to "pass" ACA than President Obama?"

a strong argument could be made that pelosi did more, reid might get a few votes, and i'm sure there are many names behind the scenes -- perhaps someday we'll read a story about some unknown staffer who turns out to have been the real hero of the deal. and you will recall that obama came under quite a lot of criticism for not being sufficiently involved, having made his proposal and then leaving congress to hash out much of the details. that said, for argument's sake i see no harm in granting you that no single person on earth did more than he did in terms of getting CONGRESS to pass it.


we really don't agree as to substance. we both credit obama with playing a major role, even the primary role, in making the thing become a law. there are many verbs we can use to describe his actions in the process and many other words we can use to describe his significance to it.

all i'm saying is that "passing a law" is has a specific, constitutionally defined meaning and it is quite specifically CONGRESS that does or does not do this. he can and did do many things, but "passing" the aca was not one of them. no single person can EVER be rightly said to have "passed" a law.

this, of course, takes nothing away from his accomplishment. had he said "the law i GOT passed" or "the law i dedicated my first term in office to pass" or "the law i proposed and pushed and convinced congress to pass" or any of a host of similar things, he would have been exactly right.

again, it's like me saying i give birth to my son. i can take credit for many aspects of his being, but that specific action is something that mrs. unblock did, not me. no single did more to help her through her pregnancy and the entire birth process than i did, but the actual giving birth is something that no man can even take credit for.

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Near Toledo. (video) elleng Jul 2012 #1
i'm sure he meant "signed", not "passed". unblock Jul 2012 #2
How many hundreds of hours do you think President Obama spent convincing ProgressiveEconomist Jul 2012 #5
If you remember, he pulled Boehner and McConnell and others into a televised negotiation/debate... phleshdef Jul 2012 #6
planned, conceived, concocted, devised, developed, proposed, convinced, cajoled, and arm-twisted unblock Jul 2012 #7
So you agree, much much more than just "signed". And, without the President's actions, ProgressiveEconomist Jul 2012 #8
he can take all kinds of credit for it and ownership of it. but it's simply an incorrect word choice unblock Jul 2012 #10
You're absolutely right!! :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2012 #14
You did not answer my question. ProgressiveEconomist Jul 2012 #20
he "passed" it in the same way jfk landed on the moon or i gave birth to mini-unblock. unblock Jul 2012 #21
You still have not answered my question ProgressiveEconomist Jul 2012 #22
i really think this horse is dead now, but if you really want further analysis: unblock Jul 2012 #23
And yet he didn't pass it. Igel Jul 2012 #19
It's Already Just A Hair ProfessorGAC Jul 2012 #11
aww, man! that's my THING! unblock Jul 2012 #15
K&R Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #3
K&R SunSeeker Jul 2012 #4
good tie in with the campaign theme treestar Jul 2012 #9
+1 Little Star Jul 2012 #17
Kicked say_hello Jul 2012 #12
He didn't pass anything. He signed the bill that Congress *passed* into law. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2012 #13
Well, the RW insist on calling it Obamacare so he's just agreeing with them in a way. lol.... Little Star Jul 2012 #16
Too true. DCKit Jul 2012 #24
Good n/t politicasista Jul 2012 #18
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