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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
13. That type of potentially illegal order is difficult for members of the military to refuse
Sun May 21, 2017, 12:08 PM
May 2017

I say potentially because congress can always ratify it later so where does that leave you if you refused to obey?

When you are at basic or at one of the various methods to commission, you are given classes on what is and is not a lawful order and suggestions for what to do if given various types. The type you posit here is not discussed.

Generally the types of unlawful orders discussed are:
1. Senior officer orders you to their home to wash their car. That is an unlawful order. The general suggestion is to do it but report it later.

2. Senior officer orders you to physically harm or kill someone on base they dislike. You must disobey, get out of the situation and report it.

3. Senior officer orders you to commit fraud or similar crimes. Again, you must refuse or extricate yourself from the situation at your earliest possibility and report it.

4. Various battlefield situations like ordering to kill prisoners of war, killing civilians, etc. Obviously you must disobey most of those.

What you are talking about in terms of an unlawful order is a matter for the branches of government to handle via their checks and balances. You cannot ask the military to sort that out. That is congress' job.

No it is against ucmj to carry out immoral orders TEB May 2017 #1
I don't think that is true -illegal/unlawful yes, but not immoral DrDan May 2017 #10
Just as former infantry trooper TEB May 2017 #15
yes, "unlawful" - those can and should be disobeyed - not "immoral" DrDan May 2017 #17
Illegal yes unlawful same was not splitting hairs TEB May 2017 #20
not sure I undersatnd your post - but . . . you can disobey an order if it is illegal or unlawful DrDan May 2017 #24
the problem is that the military leadership Mosby May 2017 #25
well . . . yeah . . . when you decide to disobey an order the onus on on you DrDan May 2017 #27
Yes. Aristus May 2017 #2
I seem to recall we spent time in class Turbineguy May 2017 #3
The Constitutionally of the War Powers Resolution is something scholars have debated for decades Calista241 May 2017 #4
Yes. They take an oath to the Constitution, not the CIC. roamer65 May 2017 #5
" . . . and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States . . . " DrDan May 2017 #11
Technically, yes it is legal to refuse to obey an illegal order... Wounded Bear May 2017 #6
Military swears an oath to uphold the constitution, not a president. beachbum bob May 2017 #7
A relief to have clarity on this topic. Thanks. ATL Ebony May 2017 #8
tread carefully - that is not accurate DrDan May 2017 #12
Thanks but I hope there's protocol as to how to handle illegal CIC orders and ATL Ebony May 2017 #14
See my #13. nt stevenleser May 2017 #16
illegal orders can and should be disobeyed DrDan May 2017 #18
Officers swear an oath to uphold the constitution Brother Buzz May 2017 #9
That type of potentially illegal order is difficult for members of the military to refuse stevenleser May 2017 #13
"most" of those? Doreen May 2017 #19
Some are on a thin line stevenleser May 2017 #21
The simple reality is we know trump is capable of firing a nuke to cover his ass. Eliot Rosewater May 2017 #26
Use of nuclear weapons when not under attack requires POTUS to get concurrence from stevenleser May 2017 #29
Who would he have to get permission from specifically? Eliot Rosewater May 2017 #32
Not permission, concurrence from the SecDef. stevenleser May 2017 #33
Not only legal but it is required sarisataka May 2017 #22
I'm curious to know what your take is on the specific instance the OP asks about stevenleser May 2017 #30
The scenarios you spoke of sarisataka May 2017 #31
I was just following orders HAB911 May 2017 #23
Yes but OP asked about a specific kind of order and it wasn't to commit genocide stevenleser May 2017 #28
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