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NYC Liberal

(20,453 posts)

137. Good to see Ralph sticking up for the Republicans

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 05:35 PM

Jul 2012

by shifting blame for Republican obstructionism onto Democrats. Just look at the right-wing framing:

Republicans = dominating, strong, powerful
Democrats = fear, defeatism, cowering

Republicans aren't "strong" at all. They have to resort to crimes and/or sleazy, unethical dirty tricks to win. They have to steal elections and purge voter rolls to get into office. It took a corrupt Supreme Court with 5 Republican justices to get Bush into office in 2000.

Here's the Republican election record for the last few cycles:

1996 - Lost seats in House, lost presidential
1998 - Lost seats in House, no change in Senate
2000 - Lost seats in House and Senate, lost presidential
2002 - Gained seats
2004 - Gained seats, won presidential
2006 - Lost seats in House and Senate (lost majorities in both)
2008 - Lost seats in House and Senate, lost presidential
2010 - Gained seats

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Ralph Nader: 'Cowering' Democrats face defeat [View all] cali Jul 2012 OP

Fuck Ralph Nader. HappyMe Jul 2012 #1

Jeez--great minds, look below!! MADem Jul 2012 #3

Yeah. Except he's right. russspeakeasy Jul 2012 #4

You left out a few words. TheWraith Jul 2012 #11

"the democrats should be landsliding the worst republican party russspeakeasy Jul 2012 #25

Because the Repigs Control the Tee Vee AndyTiedye Jul 2012 #204

you nailed it. It is the TV. Any Democrat that says anything rainy Jul 2012 #253

really? ret5hd Jul 2012 #529

republicans control tv? since when? capitalists control tv. HiPointDem Jul 2012 #558

"Landsliding", Indeed Iggy Jul 2012 #377

+1,000,000! The guy is a vote-suppressing, self-aggrandizing, noxious scold. MADem Jul 2012 #58

I'm sure he's done more for the American people than you have. n/t mattclearing Jul 2012 #172

Why isn't he helping now? Instead of just shooting his mouth off? He could be financially pnwmom Jul 2012 #201

+1,000,000! nt MADem Jul 2012 #206

If you really want to know what Nader is up to, mattclearing Jul 2012 #229

He doesn't ever support Dems; he criticizes them. And who does this benefit? The Rethugs. pnwmom Jul 2012 #232

He's even harder on Republicans than he is on Dems. mattclearing Jul 2012 #244

No one loves Wall Street more than Ralph--he has a very UNPROGRESSIVE stock portfolio. MADem Jul 2012 #237

Load of excrement? mattclearing Jul 2012 #243

Yes, a great big load of stinking, steaming excrement. MADem Jul 2012 #278

Condemning Nader for something Kerry did as well isn't particularly fair. mattclearing Jul 2012 #322

I am condemning Nader for herding idealists away from the Democratic ticket, to benefit his stock MADem Jul 2012 #323

You don't know me. mattclearing Jul 2012 #331

When a candidate has to fight a battle on TWO fronts, they have a harder time making gains. MADem Jul 2012 #333

"Took votes" mattclearing Jul 2012 #339

OK, fine, own this. MADem Jul 2012 #342

You could say the same things of most of the Dems in congress. mattclearing Jul 2012 #354

If you really want to do that, then start your own thread on the topic and have at it. MADem Jul 2012 #359

My only point here is that you don't subject anyone else to the same scrutiny/standards. n/t mattclearing Jul 2012 #369

If you want to talk about someone else, fire up a thread about them and let's have at it. MADem Jul 2012 #395

Nader didn't "take votes" from Gore Chisox08 Jul 2012 #423

Ah yes, "you knew some," so therefore your experience is controlling across the depth and breadth of MADem Jul 2012 #428

I never said that it applied to every Nader voter just the ones I knew Chisox08 Jul 2012 #436

So, it's anecdotal. It doesn't hold sway, then. nt MADem Jul 2012 #440

Saying every Nader voter would have voted for Gore just doesn't make sense Chisox08 Jul 2012 #466

No one has made that claim. nt MADem Jul 2012 #479

Why can't you admit that the Democratic ticket helped cause those idealists to go away Ken Burch Jul 2012 #465

No one is making anyone stay. If you don't like the party--leave. See if you can get a better MADem Jul 2012 #473

There was nothing for progressives in the Gore program in 2000 Ken Burch Jul 2012 #474

You keep replying twice to my posts. It's a bit annoying. MADem Jul 2012 #478

All "Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good" ever meant was Ken Burch Jul 2012 #481

Maybe that means that to you. Don't try to tell me what it means to me. MADem Jul 2012 #482

You assume that nobody tried working from within Ken Burch Jul 2012 #475

Name them. Everyone I've talked to -- and I mean face-to-face--talks a great game of complaints, MADem Jul 2012 #477

How many people have you talked to? Ken Burch Jul 2012 #480

Oh please. MADem Jul 2012 #484

Ralph wouldn't have won ANY votes in 2000 Ken Burch Jul 2012 #468

You keep replying more than once to a single post. Please stop doing that. nt MADem Jul 2012 #485

Sometimes it's necessary, when more than one point in your posts needs to be responded to. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #506

It's bothersome--better to edit your post instead of adding on. MADem Jul 2012 #509

I'll take your comment here under consideration. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #512

This isn't about Ralph's personal character. It's about the point he's making here Ken Burch Jul 2012 #467

Sorry, it IS about his personal character, because when you understand his personal character, you MADem Jul 2012 #472

Yup, grabbing their ankles whilst accepting the hot beef injection of Wall Street this is unreal. Jul 2012 #299

YES. Chorophyll Jul 2012 #385

You could say the same about Larry Flynt Major Nikon Jul 2012 #241

I adore larry Flynt. FarPoint Jul 2012 #259

Agreed. n/t mattclearing Jul 2012 #336

We're past 2000 now, for God's sake. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #456

Why doesn't Nader try to help the Dems beat the extremists? pnwmom Jul 2012 #200

Because he needs the spotlight and nobody will give it to him. russspeakeasy Jul 2012 #378

We shouldn't reduce ourselves to just "beating the extremists" Ken Burch Jul 2012 #492

Only in a narrow sense. And he has done precious little to support the case against the yellowcanine Jul 2012 #417

Can we recognize his statement as correct? Zalatix Jul 2012 #165

No, we can't. We can recognize it as quite possibly ghost written by Karl Rove. MADem Jul 2012 #283

I for one would label the Blue Dogs as cowards. Or traitors. Zalatix Jul 2012 #338

They never talked like Nader and invested like Bush, though. Nadar did exactly that. nt MADem Jul 2012 #344

Right, they talk *and* invest like Bush. Marr Jul 2012 #358

So, you're saying "Bullshit the stooges with progressive talk/invest like a Republican" is better? MADem Jul 2012 #362

Will you stop calling everyone a Nader supporter, for Christ's sake? Marr Jul 2012 #400

Ralph Nader is not a politician. He's a tool of the GOP. Politicians win the occasional contest. MADem Jul 2012 #402

Ditto, HappyMe. Fuck Ralph Nader. catbyte Jul 2012 #426

It doesn't matter that's Ralph...what matters is that it's right. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #455

They're bound and determined to avoid learning this lesson, it doesn't fit their internal Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #463

Truth hurts Eddie Haskell Jul 2012 #501

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #526

Fuck Ralph Nader... MADem Jul 2012 #2

Oh that's right. zeemike Jul 2012 #49

To be fair to Pat Buchanan, he was the first person to sound the alarm and say that he KNEW that MADem Jul 2012 #54

Well your feelings are your own and you can blame him till you die. zeemike Jul 2012 #63

+1 nt freedom fighter jh Jul 2012 #77

Weak arguments need scapegoats to blame their failures on. 99Forever Jul 2012 #92

Not about his "right." He has every "right." It's all about his shitty, selfish JUDGMENT. nt MADem Jul 2012 #207

I don't argue with people that resort to... 99Forever Jul 2012 #246

You are dismissed? What MTV video or teen movie did you get that from? MADem Jul 2012 #273

LOL zappaman Jul 2012 #275

Ha ha ha! MADem Jul 2012 #279

I love watching old movies and recognizing future faces. zappaman Jul 2012 #284

My GAWD!!! That first film has an A List cast! MADem Jul 2012 #288

I love the DEVIL'S RAIN! zappaman Jul 2012 #292

I was in the Middle East and I'd never heard of it before today--it didn't make it over that way ... MADem Jul 2012 #295

And it's VERY satanic. zappaman Jul 2012 #296

The Mike Douglas Show!!!! MADem Jul 2012 #301

Well, we were just discussing Ernest Borgnine and now he is dead. zappaman Jul 2012 #352

Ha ha ha! Followed by a sob and some fond memories... MADem Jul 2012 #360

I will. For want of FL a Presidency was lost. nt MADem Jul 2012 #199

The Gore Apologists are Hilarious Iggy Jul 2012 #256

Yeah, what did happen, "Blogger?" MADem Jul 2012 #280

You've Got to Be Kidding Iggy Jul 2012 #375

Nader is a tool. MADem Jul 2012 #384

Gore won the election. So what exactly are you sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #107

I am blaming Nader for not putting the group before himself. MADem Jul 2012 #203

It Was Worse Than That, Nader Was Running a Spoiler Campaign ON PURPOSE AndyTiedye Jul 2012 #209

Gore pretty much spoiled it himself zappaman Jul 2012 #213

Didn't he take GOP money, as well? And wasn't there a GOP campaign to funnel money to him to keep MADem Jul 2012 #218

Why the focus on Nader, that is my question? We KNOW all the dirty tricks that sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #214

All true zappaman Jul 2012 #215

I did not know who Lieberman was back then. If I knew then what I know now sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #216

Lieberman was a principled moderate back then, with a gentler world-view. MADem Jul 2012 #220

Katherine Harris wasn't a self-proclaimed lefty. Nor was Rove. MADem Jul 2012 #217

Neither were the 300,000 Democrats who voted for Bush. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #219

It's not my job to tell a VOTER what to do. There are plenty of "Reagan Democrats" who have been MADem Jul 2012 #224

It wasn't Gore's job to win those votes MannyGoldstein Jul 2012 #268

Ralph Nader took money from Republicans so that Republicans could defeat Democrats. MADem Jul 2012 #282

Clinton, Gore and Obama all took vast sums from bankers MannyGoldstein Jul 2012 #388

Nadar was a big problem--he gave us President Bush, and I don't think we should EVER stop blaming MADem Jul 2012 #391

Lol, yes, of course. We must protect the third way at all costs. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #289

so much vitriol for nader, so little effort put into fighting bush's election theft. HiPointDem Jul 2012 #559

Thanks Sabrina 7wo7rees Jul 2012 #222

Your second image is a laugh riot....since Nader made his millions off of union-busting CISCO. nt MADem Jul 2012 #225

Yep a riot 7wo7rees Jul 2012 #231

And Raytheon...and McDonald's. Yeah, Ralph is a real "champion of the people." A con artist. nt MADem Jul 2012 #233

Theresa LePore was a Democrat PDittie Jul 2012 #153

That's a half truth. LaPore was a registered Republican BlueCaliDem Jul 2012 #171

+1,000 nt MADem Jul 2012 #208

The butterfly ballot was dumb graphic design.... roseBudd Jul 2012 #258

Yes. That's the official explanation. I'm not buying it. eom BlueCaliDem Jul 2012 #271

One of the grandest conspiracy theories yet on this thread. PDittie Jul 2012 #350

Gore & Clinton & Newt Gingrich Gave Us NAFTA & China MFN: Republicans All Nativo13 Jul 2012 #190

As you are a newcomer here, I will invite your attention to the TOS. MADem Jul 2012 #197

TOS is the last refuge of a scoundrel.. frylock Jul 2012 #424

No it isn't--it's a friendly notice to someone who is new, so they don't get PPR'd. MADem Jul 2012 #427

I love how you are concerned with being fair to Pat Buchanan. Comical. n/t mattclearing Jul 2012 #337

What's comical is your insistence that Ralph Nader's POV is progressive, when his conduct and MADem Jul 2012 #345

I know the 2000 election like the back of my hand, mattclearing Jul 2012 #356

I do not think you do otherwise you wouldn't have made those remarks. MADem Jul 2012 #363

This is where hypocrisy comes into play. mattclearing Jul 2012 #370

Now you are proving that you don't know a thing about that election. MADem Jul 2012 #374

Fair enough. mattclearing Jul 2012 #376

With Al Gore, we knew what we were getting--a corporate (if not friendly, not unfriendly) Democrat. MADem Jul 2012 #381

Gore didn't even win his own home state, FFS. Is that Nader's fault too? The coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #84

and yet, without Tennessee, he managed to win the election Capn Sunshine Jul 2012 #212

It's amazing how some people forget that Al Gore won the presidential election. BlueCaliDem Jul 2012 #234

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #527

Bush Junior was selected, not elected Nativo13 Jul 2012 #187

And Nader took away enough votes to make it be closer than it should have been. uppityperson Jul 2012 #188

Welcome to DU, Nativo13! CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2012 #189

Thanks Nativo13 Jul 2012 #191

He was elected five to four, because Florida wasn't "clear." MADem Jul 2012 #205

well they cant stop fox from lying to the public so idk how they LET boner cand cantor peddle leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #5

He does have a point - we still have a DINO problem in the party. backscatter712 Jul 2012 #6

Do yu know how DINOs are like unicorns? GarroHorus Jul 2012 #16

??? sadbear Jul 2012 #100

Doubtful that the sarcasm tag was missed. mythology Jul 2012 #127

That is what we should take from this article. dtom67 Jul 2012 #20

EXACTLY....said for years they would bring us down Tippy Jul 2012 #57

And the truth is that when the public is polled on ISSUES sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #101

Don't worry -- Landreau is gone Sgent Jul 2012 #141

We don't have to nominate a right-wing Dem to win in Louisiana Ken Burch Jul 2012 #542

Bobby Jindal Sgent Jul 2012 #560

And the candidate nominated against him was undoubtedly the most right-wing Dem available Ken Burch Jul 2012 #561

Open primary Sgent Jul 2012 #565

What is the point of saying that? And are you blaming liberals for Jindal for some reason? Ken Burch Jul 2012 #567

Nader got the ball rolling when he assisted George Bush into the Presidency. pnwmom Jul 2012 #7

Bingo. TheWraith Jul 2012 #15

Not actually true. morningfog Jul 2012 #62

Yes, it's true. If all the miscast votes were allowed to stand, but the Nader voters pnwmom Jul 2012 #79

If all of the miscast votes for Buchanan had rightfully gone to Gore, Gore would have won morningfog Jul 2012 #85

+1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #88

So? That was a drop in the bucket compared to Nader's 95,000 votes, which he won by lying. pnwmom Jul 2012 #129

Here is my point for all the Nader haters. morningfog Jul 2012 #150

It isn't lazy to claim that. It's practical, common sense. Nader and many of his followers were pnwmom Jul 2012 #226

So, hate Nader, I have no problem with that. morningfog Jul 2012 #252

I don't give SCOTUS a free pass. What those 5 did was despicable. But that's what pnwmom Jul 2012 #293

He did nothing illegal. Katherine Harris purging black voters was a far greater offense. Selatius Jul 2012 #223

He LEGALLY helped Bush. Does that really make you feel better? That a so-called pnwmom Jul 2012 #228

A "progressive" who owned stock in Raytheon, McDonald's and union busting CISCO, for starters! MADem Jul 2012 #235

Nope. However, it was his constitutional right to run. Selatius Jul 2012 #458

Legally, yes. But he deliberately helped the Rethugs win the race. pnwmom Jul 2012 #459

With all due respect, I see no moral equivalence here. One intentionally disenfranchised thousands. Selatius Jul 2012 #469

This is a false premise. PDittie Jul 2012 #155

All Ralph had to do was endorse the Dem. MADem Jul 2012 #330

So you're mad at him for not endorsing? PDittie Jul 2012 #347

Ralph invested in war stocks, Walmart stocks, McDonald's stocks, Big Oil stocks, MADem Jul 2012 #365

Bullshit. That's nothing but an excuse. TheWraith Jul 2012 #95

So if Nader was only in it to get Bush elected, who was he trying to get A Simple Game Jul 2012 #118

Gore won the election so what is your point? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #120

BULLSHIT! Nader did not "single handedly" get Bush elected. Shame on you for morningfog Jul 2012 #149

Please see #153 above. PDittie Jul 2012 #156

It gets too complicated for some to process deutsey Jul 2012 #371

That's because Nader made it close enough to steal. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2012 #494

I wish you hadn't mentioned Florida though hfojvt Jul 2012 #32

There could be said to be many deciding factors; but the only PROGRESSIVE who helped Bush pnwmom Jul 2012 #81

Correcting any of the other factors would have given the election to morningfog Jul 2012 #87

True. But the only PROGRESSIVE who could have made a significant difference pnwmom Jul 2012 #89

So, why place the blame on the "only progressive", when Harris and the SC were the morningfog Jul 2012 #151

Game. Set. And Match! bvar22 Jul 2012 #170

Because, in this situation, only the progressive can be said to have betrayed his own cause. pnwmom Jul 2012 #184

You're absolutely right... sunnystarr Jul 2012 #269

He is no progressive--he made sure the "winners" of the elections where he fouled the waters were MADem Jul 2012 #321

False. PDittie Jul 2012 #157

as my link points out hfojvt Jul 2012 #180

Yes it was the deciding factor. 95,000 votes versus 500. TheWraith Jul 2012 #97

I'll ask again, do you think Bush v. Gore was decided correctly? morningfog Jul 2012 #176

you apparently didn't read my link hfojvt Jul 2012 #178

300, 000 Democrats who voted for Bush. That's a hell a lot more than 95,000 sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #394

STFU Ralphie. Itchinjim Jul 2012 #8

Posts like this are why I don't want to be called a Democrat. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #139

I feel the same emilyg Jul 2012 #166

"They?" Could your brush be any broader? MADem Jul 2012 #286

Thank you. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #303

Will YOU make the same charge against President Obama and Citizens United? bvar22 Jul 2012 #305

I am not taking your point. MADem Jul 2012 #318

President Obama speaks in opposition to Citizens United, bvar22 Jul 2012 #367

President Obama is not an idiot. He has voiced his objection and acknowledges he has to play in the MADem Jul 2012 #373

What a total misinterpretation of Bvar's post. Your rage is becoming disturbing, frankly. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #411

Well, Sabrina--that was both a rude and loaded comment. MADem Jul 2012 #429

You aren't "supporting Dermocrats" in THIS thread. bvar22 Jul 2012 #435

I am challenging anyone who believes that Ralph Nader, Right Wing Tool, represents "working class, MADem Jul 2012 #439

WOW. bvar22 Jul 2012 #457

See? bvar22 Jul 2012 #418

One more time--I am just not taking your point. MADem Jul 2012 #430

Oh YES!!! bvar22 Jul 2012 #437

Just because I have strong feelings about an issue does not mean I am unhappy. MADem Jul 2012 #438

+1. That's gonna leave a mark. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #556

Well, why don't you make some nice tea for Ralph? aquart Jul 2012 #314

Not sure what ya mean limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #319

Well said. The only thing that keeps me in the Dem Party right now, are the people I know sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #410

I just think the anger against Nader is really misplaced. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #419

Agreed. The vitriol expressed towards Nader seems to be unmatched by the same posters re Republicans AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #503

I don't think you are the only one who feels that way sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #514

Then why are you on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND? If you're not a Democrat, then leave! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2012 #450

It's open to independents who vote for Dems. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #451

Ralph Nader just needs to STFU. Brigid Jul 2012 #9

Maybe if extremest fuckwads weren't constantly dividing our party we would Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #10

Precisely. It's not like he needs the money, he's a one percenter and a hypocrite about the source MADem Jul 2012 #294

Cheer up Ralph ProSense Jul 2012 #12

Fuck Ralph Nader. GarroHorus Jul 2012 #13

+4 tawadi Jul 2012 #396

Thank you for posting this! n/t Dalai_1 Jul 2012 #14

Fuck Ralph Nader Lochloosa Jul 2012 #17

Nader's own post shows that he wants Republicans, not Democrats, to be defeated AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #18

Nader acknowledges that corporatists have taken the Democratic party too upi402 Jul 2012 #19

Of course this is the truth, woo me with science Jul 2012 #257

Reflexive Shit Talk is easier whatchamacallit Jul 2012 #21

Nader is talking out of the side of his mouth. GarroHorus Jul 2012 #26

There he goes with the Holder vote again... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #31

I always ask, would you rather have the Blue Dogs and a Speaker Pelosi right now, Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #36

That's a pretty simple concept that too many of the puritopians fail to grasp...nt SidDithers Jul 2012 #44

Did you know that the old 'puritan' talking point went out with sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #105

None of the Blue Dogs HAD an "80% voting with me" record. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #507

Well the real point is. zeemike Jul 2012 #59

That depends - do you trust his words or his actions. jeff47 Jul 2012 #495

Was in Wisconsin when I voted for Nader in 2000. shcrane71 Jul 2012 #22

No ProSense Jul 2012 #23

umm... yeah. It is my experience; therefore it is accurate. shcrane71 Jul 2012 #263

Absolutely. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #264

You are correct. The only Dems I've ever met who hate Nader are political sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #412

Just say "Nader" and the Vichy-Dems go nuts. Wilms Jul 2012 #24

You're saying we exterminate Jews, gays, gypsies DevonRex Jul 2012 #27

Not at all. Wilms Jul 2012 #30

And either you know how insulting Vichy Dems is or you don't, DevonRex Jul 2012 #33

Believe me I'm aware how insulting Vichy-Dems are. Wilms Jul 2012 #46

Aww. Bless your heart. You can't help it. DevonRex Jul 2012 #86

hey, it's Christmas in July.. doddering 'ol ralph has provided a day's worth of fun for the resident dionysus Jul 2012 #64

The guy Godwined his own post! DevonRex Jul 2012 #83

how is the estate these days? wadsworth is spending a fortune keeping the grounds green lately. dionysus Jul 2012 #96

We have a vole who's eating all the snow in summer. DevonRex Jul 2012 #104

What a despicable comparison. You should be ashamed of yourself. nt MADem Jul 2012 #238

I'm crushed. Wilms Jul 2012 #249

I think shame would be the more appropriate reaction. MADem Jul 2012 #272

You've said as much. Wilms Jul 2012 #290

You're defending a 1 percenter who's all about himself, and using an offensive reference to do so. MADem Jul 2012 #297

You've mistaken me for someone defending him. Wilms Jul 2012 #306

The OP is all about Ralph conning the sheep-masses. I suggest you take your own advice. MADem Jul 2012 #312

Not my read on it. Wilms Jul 2012 #316

It's not about his First Amendment Rights. MADem Jul 2012 #320

I find your argument as compelling as your link-less assertions. Wilms Jul 2012 #324

Unlike you, apparently, I have read the entire thread. MADem Jul 2012 #326

Gee. Wilms Jul 2012 #334

That was before the war made it worth millions. MADem Jul 2012 #341

I'm pretty much done with your off-topic-ness. Wilms Jul 2012 #348

Keep supporting Ralph. By so doing, you are supporting a GOP candidate and making Ralph rich. MADem Jul 2012 #351

It's about DINOs. Wilms Jul 2012 #353

Repeatedly bellowing a falsehood does not make it true. Check the OP. MADem Jul 2012 #366

. Wilms Jul 2012 #368

.? What does that mean? Here's some light reading for you re: Progressive Ralph... MADem Jul 2012 #401

Anti-Union Ralph Nader fools the gullible sooo easily. They keep his little family-run empire in Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #34

Actually, in the OP Nader IS attacking republicans and their policies. Wilms Jul 2012 #47

And on the other hand, he's whining at CISCO because his stock has fallen in value; he wants a MADem Jul 2012 #239

+1 Le Taz Hot Jul 2012 #38

nader is the one who aided the fascists, making him the vichey progressive arely staircase Jul 2012 #48

Really? I thought it was Clinton/Gore pushing WTO/NAFTA. Wilms Jul 2012 #98

no it was nader taking money from the gop to defeat the democrats arely staircase Jul 2012 #109

Are you saying offshoring is OK if your a DINO? Wilms Jul 2012 #115

no im saying ralph nader deserves much of the credit for the dystopia that was the cheney years arely staircase Jul 2012 #130

Well, you're not alone. I'll give you that. Wilms Jul 2012 #143

gore would not have invaded iraq nt arely staircase Jul 2012 #144

I hope he wouldn't have. Wilms Jul 2012 #147

Well, Ralph had stock in Halliburton, General Dynamics, and Raytheon, for starters. MADem Jul 2012 #300

In one or 2 sentences, please state the democrats vision/agenda for America. thank you :-) nt msongs Jul 2012 #28

here you go arely staircase Jul 2012 #55

"Not as bad" and "The Lesser of Two Evils" Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #80

Health care/social safety net/equality. GOP? Rich get richer, fuck you poor folks. NT MADem Jul 2012 #327

The worst thing that Nader did... kentuck Jul 2012 #29

Gee, Ralph...maybe you should enter the race. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #35

But..but..caving to the Repugs is "smart politics". Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #37

Nuck Fader. How many elections has he won? NashvilleLefty Jul 2012 #39

Let me add my UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #40

I like Ralph Nader Douglas Carpenter Jul 2012 #41

FUCK NADER!!! Odin2005 Jul 2012 #42

Fuck Ralph Nader...nt SidDithers Jul 2012 #43

+1 treestar Jul 2012 #52

what a sad little man nader has become arely staircase Jul 2012 #45

Think about the millions he has in union-busting CISCO stock--that'll tamp down those pangs, too. nt MADem Jul 2012 #210

We should landslide in Nov.. otherone Jul 2012 #50

Sure hope so... Kyad06 Jul 2012 #56

Fuck Ralph Nader! aikoaiko Jul 2012 #51

This is all your fault, Nader Gman Jul 2012 #53

The Democrats are caving to the Repugs to please Nader?? Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #68

No, we would have few if any of the problems we have now Gman Jul 2012 #195

Nader ran as a Green. Not a Democrat. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #196

Or to Tennessee, his own state, Le Taz Hot Jul 2012 #389

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #60

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #71

I hate to say anything good about that loser, but many of the things he says about us democrats, demosincebirth Jul 2012 #61

Does he still exist? Who knew? Orrex Jul 2012 #65

Hey Ralph, what do you care? Progressive dog Jul 2012 #66

He is correct on this Anarcho-Socialist Jul 2012 #67

I think he suffers from an inflated-ego, but HE'S RIGHT about this. They have nothing to lose. patrice Jul 2012 #69

Show me a politician who does NOT have an inflated ego with narcissistic tendencies. bvar22 Jul 2012 #302

Yep. This is why we NEED public campaign finance and instant-run-off-voting. nt patrice Jul 2012 #531

If Bernie Sanders has them, he controls them pretty well. nt patrice Jul 2012 #532

STFU, Nader! lastlib Jul 2012 #70

Re Nader: "I don't think I've ever met a bigger asshole" DinahMoeHum Jul 2012 #72

I have a link that will do. Ralph Nader was a war profiteer, steering votes to the war candidate. MADem Jul 2012 #335

+1 Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #340

Nader, horsefly Skidmore Jul 2012 #73

He's RIGHT!! Continued backbone failure and triangulation will lead to defeat on point Jul 2012 #74

You want a backbone? Aerows Jul 2012 #434

+1 nt MADem Jul 2012 #441

Ahh I love seeing the Nader bashers. white_wolf Jul 2012 #75

+1 DJ13 Jul 2012 #82

What's that ProSense Jul 2012 #91

Ralph Nader lied in 2000. He made possible the theft of the election. libinnyandia Jul 2012 #94

Q: Why was the 'lie' so easy to believe? girl gone mad Jul 2012 #315

Gore did not equal Bush. That was a lie. And can you tell me why Nader ran again in 2004 and libinnyandia Jul 2012 #357

Gore won the election, so it's funny to see anyone who is a Democrat sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #106

+1 n/t lordsummerisle Jul 2012 #159

Nader had plenty to do with the theft jeff47 Jul 2012 #496

No, he didn't. Not one serious analysis of what happened in 2000 ever sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #515

You are only assigning the literal votes for Nader as the effect. jeff47 Jul 2012 #517

Most of what you just said is merely supposition. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #519

Why the hell do I bother? jeff47 Jul 2012 #522

You're blaming Gore treestar Jul 2012 #112

Well said. When someone tells you not to listen to Nader, shcrane71 Jul 2012 #265

I find it's much more important to watch Nader than listen to him jeff47 Jul 2012 #497

I love seeing the clueless defenders of that Hypocritical One Percenter/GOP Corporate Tool. nt MADem Jul 2012 #298

I have to agree with everyone else... FUCK Ralph Nader!!! RevStPatrick Jul 2012 #76

Fuck Ralph Nader, Democrats should cower even *more* abjectly.. Fumesucker Jul 2012 #78

You know the drill libodem Jul 2012 #90

I used to love Nader ... Now I despise him .... but HE IS RIGHT ! Trajan Jul 2012 #93

I agree except that Teamster Jeff Jul 2012 #103

I'm sorry, but what's Nader's winning percentage in elections? onenote Jul 2012 #99

More attacking the messenger, huh? sadbear Jul 2012 #102

Why? Because Dean is trying to help. What's Nader doing to help fight the Rethugs? pnwmom Jul 2012 #202

Criticizing Dems for not being pure enough sadbear Jul 2012 #248

"Glowering" Nader faces obscurity Kolesar Jul 2012 #108

"Twelve percent of Florida Democrats (over 200,000) voted for George Bush" -San Francisco Chronicle Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #110

Ok, and how many of those did so because "there's no difference between Bush and Gore"? jeff47 Jul 2012 #498

So, maybe Gore should have set out to prove enough of difference and captured the Left. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #505

And it was Nader's call to go after the left jeff47 Jul 2012 #516

Why would it have been Nader's job to help his opponent win? Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #524

By your logic, it's Nader's fault. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2012 #578

Hate on Nader if you will, but he is right. AnOhioan Jul 2012 #111

Thanks for facillitating ShrubCo you dweebie fuck orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #113

If Dems are so afraid of challenges from the left... limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #114

Naw. They'd rather blame the voters than appeal to them. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #117

HaHahaHA. Because grumpy old Nader appeals to SO many!! DevonRex Jul 2012 #119

Well, grumpy old Nader wrecked the election according to some. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #146

Well, make up your mind. He is either the most powerful man in America sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #313

Nader would STILL have run and used the same right-wing talking points, NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #135

Anybody should be allowed to run. The point is he would not have had any support. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #142

It has nothing to do with being "allowed" to run. NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #152

We learned very different lessons from the 2000 election I guess. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #168

"defeat" is something he is an expert in. Bluerthanblue Jul 2012 #116

Nader is a copy cat. bvar22 Jul 2012 #121

Oh great. Now you're running the risk that they are going to trash Truman and Wellstone. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #175

He is a wealthy, secretive, lawbreaking liar who gambles with his non-profit money and doesn't pay MADem Jul 2012 #398

Bingo RN got it in one, If the Democratic candidates would campaign on a Progressive Populous Vincardog Jul 2012 #122

Renewable energy is enough for me Kolesar Jul 2012 #124

I'm still waiting for the definitive Democratic Party branding campaign ... Auggie Jul 2012 #123

I disagree with the "cowering" but I don't think we're doing enough. :( nt gateley Jul 2012 #125

Punxsutawney Ralph. AtomicKitten Jul 2012 #126

Nader needs to stay under his rock he only comes out to bite. gordianot Jul 2012 #128

Another GOP Hack (Nader) Quoted In A GOP Rag (Politico)... stlsaxman Jul 2012 #131

What Nader fails to recognize is a large demographic in this country are made up of racist right still_one Jul 2012 #132

Why blame nader instead of the people who voted for him? limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #136

I blame Nader, I also blame Gore, the supreme court, and the ballots the confused many people still_one Jul 2012 #173

He's right. BE the fucking Democratic party again. MrSlayer Jul 2012 #133

Fuck scum Nadir. n/t BlueToTheBone Jul 2012 #134

Good to see Ralph sticking up for the Republicans NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #137

wasn't he on 'happy days' ? spanone Jul 2012 #138

Good article. Nader is right Autumn Jul 2012 #140

The Ground Hog sees his shadow, posts an article, then goes back to sleep. JoePhilly Jul 2012 #145

Spoken like someone who's won a lot of elected offices. Oh, wait. He hasn't won ANY! nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #148

Do you ever criticize Repubs, Ralph, or do you just silently take their money? great white snark Jul 2012 #154

"Craven and cruel corporatist Republicans" sounds like it might possibly be a criticism... Fumesucker Jul 2012 #158

F Nader richmwill Jul 2012 #160

Ralph Nader can go jump in a lake. Arkana Jul 2012 #161

"Craven and cruel corporatist Republicans" sounds like it might possibly be a criticism... Fumesucker Jul 2012 #174

The guy has a point, in that it would be great to have a real liberal/progressive party in quinnox Jul 2012 #162

FU RN. Nt stevenleser Jul 2012 #163

Mr. Nader is correct Skittles Jul 2012 #164

Ditto. emilyg Jul 2012 #167

well.....he`s right madrchsod Jul 2012 #169

Perhaps one of the reasons that Nader is hated by so many here Bonobo Jul 2012 #177

+1 nashville_brook Jul 2012 #179

That must be it! Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #181

Oh thanks for reminding me --there's another possibility... Bonobo Jul 2012 #182

That assessment gets my vote. bvar22 Jul 2012 #453

100%. One of the last that changed the world for the better, and he is reviled for it. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #192

I'm pretty sure a lot of people just see him as a useful idiot for the right. joshcryer Jul 2012 #221

Useful to the GOP and no idiot--his war profiteering stocks made him wealthy. nt MADem Jul 2012 #343

"Real" progressives take cash from GOP donors and own stock in Raytheon, etc? Who knew?? nt MADem Jul 2012 #240

No, we hate him because we watch what he does, not just what he says. jeff47 Jul 2012 #500

I started wondering about him when he stiffed a crowd of several hundred several years ago patrice Jul 2012 #530

Great! Tips from the "liberal" asshole who called my president an Uncle Tom. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #183

Very well said! Bravo! nt MADem Jul 2012 #211

Agree. + The words "liberal" and "conservative" are practically meaningless anymore. Reclaim them??? patrice Jul 2012 #533

Folks like Ralph Nader have perverted the term "liberal", which is why I no longer claim it. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #536

Geez is that tool still alive? n/t progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #185

Like so many others have said... SkyDaddy7 Jul 2012 #186

While cowering isn't the word I would use.. SomethingFishy Jul 2012 #193

Man, the mention of the N word really sets a blaze. JoeyT Jul 2012 #194

Why isn't Nader sending his troops to help Dems in the fight for progressive values? pnwmom Jul 2012 #198

Because Faux won't pay him those sweet appearance fees to tout for the left side of the equation. MADem Jul 2012 #227

Nader makes more money for his organization when the Rethugs are in power. pnwmom Jul 2012 #230

If we had individual post rec you'd be racking up the numbers!! nt MADem Jul 2012 #236

Nader is an ass... sendero Jul 2012 #242

Ralph doesn't care about your hate. the other one Jul 2012 #245

"A democratic may be different from a republican, but both parties are the same" Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #346

Ralph Nader, writing the same article over and over for decades Democat Jul 2012 #247

Hey, Ralph Nader knows a thing or two about........... Amaril Jul 2012 #250

If this is Nader's tilt on reverse psychology, no_hypocrisy Jul 2012 #251

Nader is irrelevant excrement. MjolnirTime Jul 2012 #254

Not according to the majority of posters in this thread. bvar22 Jul 2012 #270

Where do you get that crap? Nader is a whining spoiler who managed to fuck over progressives MADem Jul 2012 #274

The NERVE! bvar22 Jul 2012 #308

While investing in WAL MART, where he benefitted from those regulation changes! MADem Jul 2012 #311

Can you name a single Democratic Politician... bvar22 Jul 2012 #328

You are deliberately being obtuse. Nader decried the government war machine, he pretended to be in MADem Jul 2012 #332

Hey Ralph. Eat some shit and die NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #255

Why would Nader care? He hates the Democratic Party. libinnyandia Jul 2012 #260

We LOVE us some "ex" Republicans, though. Just change your letter, Ralph--those Romulox Jul 2012 #261

I mean, some guy posted a long OP the other day from a guy who "converted" to an "ex" Pub--in 2007! Romulox Jul 2012 #262

Not trying to inconvenience you but any chance do you have a link to that OP? NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #266

Here ya go: "Ex" (circa 2007!) Republican calls for "purity", stifling of dissent. 108 DUers agree! Romulox Jul 2012 #285

Now THAT is a classic! bvar22 Jul 2012 #452

You know, some people do see that as prioritizing a dynamic process, not stifling, because some patrice Jul 2012 #534

Ralphie Boy! Long time no see! How come you only visit every four years? JHB Jul 2012 #267

Never mistake collusion for cowering. woo me with science Jul 2012 #276

This is right limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #361

I respected Ralph Nader about 20 years ago. Cary Jul 2012 #277

He's absolutely correct. matmar Jul 2012 #281

One thing so sad about 2000 is that Al Gore seems to have learned so little from it. He still Romulox Jul 2012 #287

Daring to be "more progressive?" Not by his stock portfolio, he wasn't!!!! MADem Jul 2012 #304

Al Gore's portforlio was/is no more progressive. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #317

Al Gore wasn't playing the scold. Nader was scolding the Dems while holding a GOP stock portfolio. MADem Jul 2012 #325

Al Gore is worth $100 million, a good deal of which was made via gov't connections. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #413

Yes, and Al never pretended to be a po'boy, living in a rooming house with a bathroom down the hall, MADem Jul 2012 #432

Al is an environmental scold who uses more energy than 10 average families. He also SELLS carbon Romulox Jul 2012 #447

And this is known about him. For years. So what? MADem Jul 2012 #461

It's contemptible, hypocritical behavior that completely vitiates Al's ability to scold others. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #490

Al never wore sackcloth and ashes. He never played the poor boy. MADem Jul 2012 #513

LOOK everybody! A Ralph Nader post. Everybody dog pile on Ralph. Hotler Jul 2012 #291

It's not a "dog pile" to call a one-percenter hypocrite for what he is. MADem Jul 2012 #307

Can you name a politician who is NOT a 1%er? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #379

Ralph is the only one I know who plays poor boy while raking in the millions. MADem Jul 2012 #383

I have never heard him call himself 'a poor boy' nor have I ever heard him sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #386

Am I the only one here who is old enough to know about the cult of Ralph? MADem Jul 2012 #392

It's very possible that he was once not a wealthy man. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #397

He has been wealthy since he started insider trading in the seventies--and maybe earlier. MADem Jul 2012 #399

Sorry, but the Nader hatred while interesting, still has zero to do with the theft of the sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #403

I differ as do many others. I invite your careful attention to that sourced document I provided to MADem Jul 2012 #404

I have read many expert analysis of the theft of the 2000 election and Nader barely sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #405

Well, that's nice. I don't agree with your experts and I am not alone. MADem Jul 2012 #407

In the end, one thing caused the loss of what was a win for Gore, the USSC. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #408

I have all those stocks in my portfolio now also. Does that make me a bad person too.?? Hotler Jul 2012 #380

I take my anger to the voting booth, and I bring voters with me every election. MADem Jul 2012 #382

I welcome ANYBODY who will STAND UP and say... bvar22 Jul 2012 #309

Fuck Nadar and Ann RMoney, Too we can do it Jul 2012 #310

Yes, the Democratic party Aerows Jul 2012 #329

+1,000 nt MADem Jul 2012 #406

These Nader folks Aerows Jul 2012 #433

They are very young, and/or very naive. They don't know his horrible, anti-worker, anti-union MADem Jul 2012 #443

This thread cracks me up. laundry_queen Jul 2012 #349

Well, I am a practical activist. MADem Jul 2012 #355

It's a mystery why this thread even exists. blue neen Jul 2012 #364

haha limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #387

Good! blue neen Jul 2012 #409

It's just history. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #420

that about sums it up. Dems in party leadership seem loathe to call bullshit on the GOP yurbud Jul 2012 #372

Ralph Nader is a wolf in sheeps clothing. AJTheMan Jul 2012 #390

He's no liberal--he's an authoritarian ass who gets stock tips from his GOP pals. MADem Jul 2012 #393

If we used one-tenth of this energy generated by the vitriol expressed here for Ralph Nader amb123 Jul 2012 #414

The vitriol is directed at *people who share Nader's beliefs*. The ones who say "Fuck Nader" are Romulox Jul 2012 #415

Is there a possibility that the revulsion is for the "framers" as opposed to the "framing"? Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #422

!!!!!! dionysus Jul 2012 #445

"Speak of the devil, and he will appear..." nt Romulox Jul 2012 #446

!!!! Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #448

We wouldn't have had Bush in 2000 if Gore had run an anti-corporate domination campaign. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #508

Regurgitated "Naderisms" and his apologists have absolutely no effect on me. Sorry. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #525

It's not a Naderism...it's the truth...Nader didn't invent that observation Ken Burch Jul 2012 #538

Okay. Thanks. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2012 #539

And you're silly "waving" smilie doesn't discredit any of my points. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #541

I agree. "Centrists" are gutless, political cowards amb123 Jul 2012 #431

UNREC. People who say FUCK RALPH NADER know that he was and continues to be a tool of the GOP. MADem Jul 2012 #442

So then Nader should be building his party of progressives that have a chance to beat Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2012 #416

He has certainly amassed a personal fortune for himself and his lobbying firms. MADem Jul 2012 #444

And that's why the Greens all but banished him from the party. Many of them realized that he was Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2012 #449

It's pretty clear that there wasn't much love there, particularly when his own VP candidate was MADem Jul 2012 #460

I agree with him 100%. Hell Hath No Fury Jul 2012 #421

If Ralphie is so brilliant and so full of civic concern, why hasn't he run mac56 Jul 2012 #425

Given that there doesn't even seem to be a third-party presidential campaign this year Ken Burch Jul 2012 #454

Yes there is. The Greens just aren't having Big Mouth Ralph ruin their reputations anymore. MADem Jul 2012 #462

Then we can assume that the existence of a Green ticket this year Ken Burch Jul 2012 #464

You never know. MADem Jul 2012 #471

Just so you know, I actually agree with your critique of the Greens on organizational matters Ken Burch Jul 2012 #476

I disagree with you re: Wellstone and Kennedy, but that is an argument for another day. MADem Jul 2012 #486

Just a little bit of info AnOhioan Jul 2012 #489

Good point. So, in EVERY state with a Democratic legislature and governor Ken Burch Jul 2012 #491

Only if you pretend turnout doesn't matter. jeff47 Jul 2012 #502

Then it's up to this party to INSPIRE turnout Ken Burch Jul 2012 #504

It would be nice if you'd bother to read a post before replying to it. jeff47 Jul 2012 #518

I did read the post Ken Burch Jul 2012 #520

You read the title. jeff47 Jul 2012 #521

I read the post Ken Burch Jul 2012 #523

+1,000 nt MADem Jul 2012 #511

You don't build turnout by silencing dissent. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #543

I know the difference between "dissent" and "flinging shit at GOP command." MADem Jul 2012 #544

The people who show up the most and vote Ken Burch Jul 2012 #545

Not in my universe, and I've been at this (when I was in USA, anyway) since the Vietnam era. MADem Jul 2012 #548

I've never insulted or disrespected the voters you're talking about there. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #550

Well, I will take you at your word, but I've seen plenty of snark--in this thread--about centrists MADem Jul 2012 #552

I'm not "cheering on Nader" or calling for Dems to recruit Nader. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #555

I am not "demanding" anything. I simply don't care to waste my time on a GOP corporate tool and MADem Jul 2012 #562

This isn't about validating Ralph as a person...why can't you see that? Ken Burch Jul 2012 #563

What this is "about" is a load of shit stirring by a GOP tool. There is no distinction to be made. MADem Jul 2012 #564

How would making our party more populist fuck with our chances? Ken Burch Jul 2012 #568

The battle this year is RMoney against the working/middle class. MADem Jul 2012 #569

Obama just ratfucked that campaign by putting Cory Booker, the Bain apologist, on the platform comm. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #570

"Ratfucked?" Karl Rove, is that you? MADem Jul 2012 #571

It goes back before Rove Ken Burch Jul 2012 #572

I know only that you're interested in touting a guy who has twice been a mouthpiece for the GOP. MADem Jul 2012 #573

I'm not touting the guy...it isn't ABOUT the guy. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #574

Oh, bullshit. You can't possibly be that gullible. nt MADem Jul 2012 #575

It's not gullibility simply to disagree with YOU. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #576

Keep arguing with yourself, then, if you'd like. nt MADem Jul 2012 #577

3 years of attacking Obama from all sides is what did it...... FrenchieCat Jul 2012 #470

Nader is like Frankenstein, they roll him out of his crypt every 4 years to try and scare everyone. Major Hogwash Jul 2012 #483

+1,000,000! nt MADem Jul 2012 #487

488. Go Ralph Go!!! the other one Jul 2012 #488

In electoral terms, Ralph's already gone. Ken Burch Jul 2012 #493

Ralph, I love ya, but STFU, OK? Taverner Jul 2012 #499

Fuck you, Ralph Nader 47of74 Jul 2012 #510

Sit on it Ralph!!! Rex Jul 2012 #528

Hmmm...looks like it's time for Ralphie to awaken from his four year slumber Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #535

I'm no fan of this particular messenger . . . markpkessinger Jul 2012 #537

I think you'll find that most people here agree with Nader's positions either a lot or some Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #547

As a member of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin/DPW I know those of you that solely blame Nader bobthedrummer Jul 2012 #540

I don't blame Nader solely but there's no question that he siphoned off votes for Gore Cary Jul 2012 #551

Welcome to DU, Cary-it was a COUP-different from November 22, 1963--friendly fascism style. n/t bobthedrummer Jul 2012 #566

Ralph, I have a message for you from the great Cee Lo Green.... Rosco T. Jul 2012 #546

+1,000,000! nt MADem Jul 2012 #549

Forget Florida -- The real Nader damage occurred in New Hampshire in 2000... VOX Jul 2012 #553

Why is this thread still here? demosincebirth Jul 2012 #554

OMG, I can't believe a Nader thread in 2012 has 566 responses. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2012 #557