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Bucky

(53,986 posts)
40. You should know that race isn't a scientific term. Hatred doesn't have to be accurate.
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 10:46 PM
Jun 2017

Race is actually a pretty fuzzy concept. It's based on a raft of social conventions that are themselves fuzzy and fungible over time. Generally speaking, any group of people can be referred to as a race and it's just as valid, as far as scientists are concerned, to call culturally Middle Eastern Muslims a race as it is to call any other group of people walking on North America a race. Race, a biologist will tell you, doesn't actually exist.

The idea that a hatred toward Muslims isn't acted out through a broad spectrum of cultural, phenotypal, and epidermal markers and presumptions is silly. There are cartoon exaggerations that we could clearly identify as Muslim. They're stereotypes, and of course riddled with inaccuracies and distortions. But the same is true for any attempt to identify race. John Adams when he was in Europe announced that there was "a new race of man on the face of the Earth--an American race." To him, race meant nationality.

The Irish and other Celts were categorically considered non-white 150 years ago. No one would make that argument now. In Mexico before the War of Independence, the racial designation "white" meant one was born in Spain. If both your parents were born in Spain, but you were born in Veracruz, you were a different race, a criollo. You could even go to court and have your race legally changed--Father Morellos, the leader of the War of Independence after Miguel Hidalgo died, had himself legally rebranded from mulatto to mestizo just to get better legal treatment.

In the 1940s, Mexican Americans in Texas fought for their civil rights by asserting they were white--emphasizing their European and denying their native genetic inheritance. Since the 1970s more and more have strongly insisted they are La Raza, native to the land, and deemphasizing their European roots. It's all fair game. Race is as fungible as personal identity.

The truth is, we're all blended humans. Who doesn't get a good laugh out of those white bigots who take the genetic marker tests and find out they're part black?

Let me get back to your point. When Bill Maher goes off on a tear about how evil and violent Muslims are, he's not talking about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He's not talking about Aasif Mandvi. He's talking about people from a particular cultural and ethnic set, cutting across nationalities from Arab to Palestinian to Iranian to Libyan.

If his terminology isn't precise, well, neither is his hatred. But it's hatred nonetheless and it's hatred pointed at a group of people who are grouped by inaccurate social perceptions, but grouped nonetheless. I'm not going to depend on the perceptions of a bigot to determine the accuracy of my calling out his hatred. It's indiscriminate hatred; it doesn't have to be accurate.

Maher's comments are a critical thinking test underthematrix Jun 2017 #1
Why couldn't Maher quote Malcolm X correctly? leftstreet Jun 2017 #2
Because he's a shock-value comedian. Bucky Jun 2017 #8
He must be insecure, if he's still trying to 'shock' leftstreet Jun 2017 #17
Logically, I agree. But you gotta look at what skill set got him where he is Bucky Jun 2017 #32
So you"re saying that one can't be funny today without shock? Could you explain please? icymist Jun 2017 #57
I can't think of any major comedians who don't use swear words or talk about sex and race Bucky Jun 2017 #62
No white comedian should ever use the N word. It's just not funny frankieallen Jun 2017 #86
Bad analogy and I also just disagree. tazkcmo Jun 2017 #58
Your examples of non-shock comedians all go back 50 yrs Bucky Jun 2017 #63
lol You're right! tazkcmo Jun 2017 #81
I'm over 50 too Bucky Jun 2017 #85
Really, that's it? Hamlette Jun 2017 #26
He wasn't trying to quote Malcolm X, it was just a retort MrPurple Jun 2017 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author ecstatic Jun 2017 #54
It wasn't a previously written joke Bettie Jun 2017 #71
Did you actually listen to the speech you posted? DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #87
What are you talking about? leftstreet Jun 2017 #88
Malcomb X uses the term "house ni****" multiple times in the speech. n/t DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #90
Right leftstreet Jun 2017 #91
I'm not labeling Maher as malicious or racist True Dough Jun 2017 #3
Hmmm Lotusflower70 Jun 2017 #76
And I'm not saying True Dough Jun 2017 #79
White comedians shouldn't really use the N-word on tv oberliner Jun 2017 #4
It's like asking "Is There Anyone Here Actually Dumb Enough to disagree with my point of view?" Bucky Jun 2017 #5
Regarding your first point, Islam isn't a race, it's a religion MadDAsHell Jun 2017 #37
You should know that race isn't a scientific term. Hatred doesn't have to be accurate. Bucky Jun 2017 #40
I see you're point, although I'm not sure how you're coming up with what Bill Maher is... MadDAsHell Jun 2017 #43
Yeah, I'm pretty hip to all that Bucky Jun 2017 #48
And this was said within the frame of a comedic mind and quick Lint Head Jun 2017 #6
Weird that the n-word came so naturally to him oberliner Jun 2017 #19
It had to be something common to him. Lint Head Jun 2017 #49
It wasn't meant maliciously. But it was still offensive. pnwmom Jun 2017 #7
What you say would be true, if it were a joke about slavery. Exilednight Jun 2017 #9
Any joke about being a House N is a joke about slavery. n/t pnwmom Jun 2017 #13
It definitely wasn't about "Sasse's racial prejudices" oberliner Jun 2017 #21
Thanks- I saw this before and thought it was nonsense. bettyellen Jun 2017 #51
Nah, you're way off on that. Sasse was obviously talking about political field work brush Jun 2017 #28
How many Exilednight Jun 2017 #59
Apparently you've never worked on a political campaign. Campaign volunteers are often called... brush Jun 2017 #74
it's not called "working in the fields". Exilednight Jun 2017 #83
It is often called working in the field and they do a lot more than canvassing brush Jun 2017 #84
George Carlin said you can joke about anything. And then went on a long cringeworthy bit on rape. Bucky Jun 2017 #10
Good post, Bucky. Thanks! n/t pnwmom Jun 2017 #14
How was his heart in the right place? And his joke on the right side of history? oberliner Jun 2017 #22
It was both incredibly offensive AND anti-slavery, yes. If you can't see that he had a reason... Bucky Jun 2017 #35
Anti-slavery? oberliner Jun 2017 #60
I believe Bill Maher is great Awsi Dooger Jun 2017 #11
The part I don't get is why African Americans can be so offended when they use the doc03 Jun 2017 #12
When they use it among themselves they know it isn't meant as a racial slur, pnwmom Jun 2017 #15
I get that but why do they do it? To me they are disrepecting thier own race. doc03 Jun 2017 #18
Reclaiming the term oberliner Jun 2017 #24
I'm gay, and I don't know any of my gay friends who call each other gay slurs. cwydro Jun 2017 #69
Queer used to be a pejorative gay slur oberliner Jun 2017 #70
I do not believe... tonedevil Jun 2017 #73
When white people make this point, I wonder if they're jealous loyalsister Jun 2017 #23
To get respect you have to respect yourself. When I see a person black or white doc03 Jun 2017 #42
Jealous of the use of the n word loyalsister Jun 2017 #44
Well if that is what you think there is no point of any more conversation with you, that's doc03 Jun 2017 #45
I don't like hearing the word either, no matter who says it. cwydro Jun 2017 #68
I remember calling someone out about it loyalsister Jun 2017 #78
Yours is both a mentally simplistic and ethically convenient allegation LanternWaste Jun 2017 #77
Oh ffs! TDale313 Jun 2017 #39
The part I don't get is why White Americans ecstatic Jun 2017 #75
He shouldn't have said it. blue neen Jun 2017 #16
That's how I feel. Mz Pip Jun 2017 #29
Amen to that! blue neen Jun 2017 #31
Yep. TDale313 Jun 2017 #38
K & R n/t billh58 Jun 2017 #20
Disregarding history loyalsister Jun 2017 #25
+1 BainsBane Jun 2017 #55
That reveals contempt loyalsister Jun 2017 #94
Maher is only intermittently funny, Exilednight. Mostly these days he's just full of himself... Hekate Jun 2017 #30
Maher fell victim to the stereotype that all GOP are racists Thomas Hurt Jun 2017 #33
I'm always surprised by how many people think Maher is important, so there you go. WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2017 #34
I keep hearing people ask "What makes him think using using that word is okay?" MadDAsHell Jun 2017 #36
Nope, he actually admitted he knows it's not okay. And that's the truth bettyellen Jun 2017 #52
Ah, yes. The old "THEY say it, so therefore it's okay for ME to say it" Orrex Jun 2017 #67
Well, mostly it's race tho Bucky Jun 2017 #95
I've used about the same analogy and called it one of our biggest problems. It's the way the brewens Jun 2017 #41
Cultural appropriation is often used to blunt the voices of those who's cultural was stolen from. nocalflea Jun 2017 #46
No, I don't think it rises to the level of malicious. Lil Missy Jun 2017 #47
He's probably not racist. It was definitely no think though mvd Jun 2017 #50
I think the problem with Maher (and various other comedians and even politicians) Kentonio Jun 2017 #53
What about the people dumb enough to do back flips in ecstatic Jun 2017 #56
I will not stand for anyone overestimating my intelligence. AngryAmish Jun 2017 #61
Yes, I'm dumb enough to think a wealthy white man would say something malicious toward AA's. NCTraveler Jun 2017 #64
*hat tip* Bucky Jun 2017 #65
Is anyone dumb enough to think that he's not a fucking asshole? Orrex Jun 2017 #66
Believing his statement malicious is not necessary for believing it execrable. Orsino Jun 2017 #72
Not being a fanboy, I count on those such as yourself to rationalize the irrational. LanternWaste Jun 2017 #80
That was a very solid response Orrex Jun 2017 #92
Maher is already persona non grata with many social justice progressives Azathoth Jun 2017 #82
Is there anyone here dumb enough to think anyone that doesn't frankieallen Jun 2017 #89
I don't think he was intentionally malicious. logosoco Jun 2017 #93
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