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spin

(17,493 posts)
38. Much depends on the level of authority ...
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 02:01 PM
Jul 2012

In order to function a society needs some rules and laws and a system to enforce them. This should be limited as much as possible.

Excessive authority can stifle freedom and consequently advancement of the society.

For example religion serves a valuable purpose in a society as it can increase moral behavior. Almost all religion is based on a version of the "Golden Rule." (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule) However if religion gains control over a society it can stifle the advancement of scientific knowledge.

Catholic Church and science

***snip***

Galileo Galilei

The 1633 Church condemnation of Galileo Galilei created a time of antagonism between the Church and science.[citation needed] Federico Cesi created the Accademia dei Lincei in 1603 as an Italian science academy, of which Galileo became a member.[19] This scientific organization would be refounded as two separate institutions, the Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei and the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, in 1936.[20]

Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when a large majority of philosophers and astronomers still subscribed to the geocentric view that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. It has been much debated why it was not until six decades after Spina and Tolosani's attacks on Copernicus's work that the Catholic Church took any official action against it. Proposed reasons have included the personality of Galileo Galilei and the availability of evidence such as telescope observations[citation needed].

After 1610, when he began publicly supporting the heliocentric view, which placed the Sun at the centre of the universe, Galileo met with bitter opposition from some philosophers and clerics, and two of the latter eventually denounced him to the Roman Inquisition early in 1615. Although he was cleared of any offence at that time, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture" in February 1616,[21] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy," forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest.

In March 1616, the Roman Catholic Church's Congregation of the Index issued a decree suspending De revolutionibus until it could be "corrected," on the grounds that the supposedly Pythagorean doctrine[22] that the Earth moves and the Sun does not was "false and altogether opposed to Holy Scripture."[23] The same decree also prohibited any work that defended the mobility of the Earth or the immobility of the Sun, or that attempted to reconcile these assertions with Scripture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science#Dark_Ages


Even non religious societies can suffer from excessively authoritarian governments.

Censorship in the Soviet Union

***snip***

Control over information

All media in the Soviet Union were controlled by the state including television and radio broadcasting, newspaper, magazine and book publishing. This was achieved by state ownership of all production facilities, thus making all those employed in media state employees. This extended to the fine arts including the theater, opera and ballet. Art and music was controlled by ownership of distribution and performance venues.

Censorship was backed in cases where performances did not meet with the favor of the Soviet leadership with newspaper campaigns against offending material and sanctions applied though party controlled professional organizations.

In the case of book publishing a manuscript had to pass censorship and the decision of a state owned publishing house to publish and distribute the book. Books which met with official favor, for example, the collected speeches of Leonid Brezhnev were printed in vast quantities while less favored literary material might be published in limited numbers and not distributed widely. Popular escapist literature such as the popular best-sellers, mysteries and romances which form the bulk of Western publishing was nearly non-existent.

Possession and use of copying machines was tightly controlled in order to hinder production and distribution of samizdat, illegal self-published books and magazines. Possession of even a single samizdat manuscript such as a book by Andrei Sinyavsky was a serious crime which might involve a visit from the KGB. Another outlet for works which did not find favor with the authorities was publishing abroad....emphasis added
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Soviet_Union


Many authoritarian governments today fear the freedom of the internet for good reason. We see this today in the recent freedom movements that led to the Arab Spring.

I fear today that the fear of terrorism is causing our government to restrict many of the freedoms we were granted in the Bill of Rights. For many years the freedom that Americans have enjoyed which included freedom of religion, freedom of the press and freedom of speech have been envied by many people who live under the thumb of an authoritarian and oppressive regime. If we lose those liberties, the terrorists will win as we will no longer be as bright a beacon to the world. It is not necessary to destroy our nation but merely to make it more authoritarian and oppressive like theirs. It might also be logical that the rich 1% of our nation would like to see a far more authoritarian government as it would help stifle any movement to undermine their wealth and power.

I also fear that an another unhealthy trend is developing in our nation and that is the desire of those on the religious right to promote the Bible as a science textbook and to incorporate many of their Christian views into law. Our Founding Fathers wisely believed in a separation of church and state.

Individual freedom with reasonable constraints can advance our civilization but in reality such freedom is difficult to achieve and preserve.





Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

It depends. SoutherDem Jul 2012 #1
Depends entirely on the individual. I don't believe this idea can be generalized. Lionessa Jul 2012 #2
Yep..I started to post the same words. BlueJazz Jul 2012 #8
This poll serves no valuable point. DrewFlorida Jul 2012 #3
It separates the authoritarians from the communalists. PassingFair Jul 2012 #5
I can't believe even 1 person voted "agree" with this. Zalatix Jul 2012 #4
It's not a strict dichotomy pwhtckll Jul 2012 #6
If all their wants and needs are filled, yes Gman Jul 2012 #7
Some people have insatiable needs. nt Confusious Jul 2012 #10
Wouldn't work Confusious Jul 2012 #9
Children are at their worst when they are free of authority. Iggo Jul 2012 #11
just look how wonderful societies are when all authority collapses Douglas Carpenter Jul 2012 #12
what kind of crap push poll is this? Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2012 #13
Bingo. Children are human beings, and they need parents to tell them that they can't have MADem Jul 2012 #55
Humans need athority. UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #14
Where did you see this? n/t ChazII Jul 2012 #15
AK Press (Anarchist Collective Publishing House) Mission Statement Taverner Jul 2012 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #16
How is "authority" earned? cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #17
It depends on the size of the group and how the authority is implimented. Marrah_G Jul 2012 #19
It depends who/what the authority is. Occupy, for instance, suggests bottom-up community authority. stevenleser Jul 2012 #20
"Only a few prefer liberty - The majority seek only fair masters." Sallust Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #21
The Romans got their liberty in the end Confusious Jul 2012 #58
In small groups with reasonable social constraints 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #22
Human beings are at their best when they are not manipulated by authority woo me with science Jul 2012 #23
Amarchy doesn't work as a social structure. nt rrneck Jul 2012 #24
What does? Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #26
This is an Rand quote? Bluenorthwest Jul 2012 #25
It is a matter of balance treestar Jul 2012 #27
If you didn't have someone telling you what to do would you? Would you?... Historic NY Jul 2012 #28
Just what Ron Paul and his little boy want, to free of authority (government). No thanks. Little Star Jul 2012 #29
Government, I am convinced, is a dog and pony show Taverner Jul 2012 #34
the only way to eliminate (or otherwise control) the corporation is through governmnet. nt arely staircase Jul 2012 #45
Only if you believe JustAnotherGen Jul 2012 #30
Yay, authoritarianism! woo me with science Jul 2012 #31
It's just not that simple. stevenleser Jul 2012 #59
Mikhail Bakunin Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #32
where does the sociopath fit in that formulation without everybody else getting screwed? yurbud Jul 2012 #68
Human beings are pack animals. We always look for a pack with a strong leader BlueCaliDem Jul 2012 #33
Authority comes naturally ... Trajan Jul 2012 #35
Even anarchists wear the proscribed uniform. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #36
Black has significance, just as Red does to Socialists Taverner Jul 2012 #37
Much depends on the level of authority ... spin Jul 2012 #38
Great post! Taverner Jul 2012 #39
Thanks for your support. (n/t) spin Jul 2012 #42
This is the kind of discussion I was trying to foster Taverner Jul 2012 #46
I enjoy posting on DU as it offers an opportunity not only to express my opinions ... spin Jul 2012 #48
Extreme levels of authority, and no authority at all, are both likely to lead to bad consequences LeftishBrit Jul 2012 #40
How about collective, rather than individual derived athority? Taverner Jul 2012 #47
Depends on the collective. Ask African Americans how they'd feel about a 1950's southern collective. stevenleser Jul 2012 #56
This! FrodosPet Jul 2012 #62
being accountable to someone else Bluerthanblue Jul 2012 #41
I actually enjoy driving on roads with designated traffic rules riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #43
That depends. I am thankful 280, 101, 680 and, thank dog, 17 all have speed limits Taverner Jul 2012 #53
bankster's paradise nt arely staircase Jul 2012 #44
If authority did not exist, people would quickly invent it. quaker bill Jul 2012 #49
To "Agree" assumes that libertarianism is correct. It isn't. baldguy Jul 2012 #50
Anarchism is radically different than Libertarianism Taverner Jul 2012 #52
Agree. Authority is always exploitative. nt Deep13 Jul 2012 #51
Unchecked authority is death to a free society orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #54
Wouldn't Somalia be representative of what happens when... Spazito Jul 2012 #57
No - the opposite actually Taverner Jul 2012 #60
Well, it seems, in Somalia, authority is everyone AND no one... Spazito Jul 2012 #61
That requires people to step up FrodosPet Jul 2012 #63
It also depends on the type of authority and where they get their legitimacy. LiberalFighter Jul 2012 #64
Now that's the million dollar answer Taverner Jul 2012 #66
Many people fear liberty, as you can now see. bemildred Jul 2012 #65
Read "Better Angels of Our Nature" by Steven Pinker and you'll disagree mainer Jul 2012 #67
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