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vi5

(13,305 posts)

31. We've already lost if the question/debate is framed as....

Mon Jul 9, 2012, 07:54 PM

Jul 2012

...cutting taxes being the way to help the middle class.

We've already lost when the debate is over who loves tax cuts more (just for which people). That discussion starts from a framework of saying that tax cuts, rather than infrastructure spending, rather than spending on schools and roads and teachers and workers are what is going to stimulate the economy and help the middle class and the working poor. That tax cuts rather than expanding medicare and medicaid and social security are what is going to help the middle class. Those tax cuts come at the expense of a lot of other very important things that also help the middle class.

When we agree to the terms of the debate being that tax cuts are best and tax cuts are what most help the middle class then we've already lost and so has the middle class.

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Will President Obama really help the middle class this time (talking about the tax cut extension)? [View all] tawadi Jul 2012 OP

I hope he succeeds tawadi Jul 2012 #1

Maybe it's the phrasing of the question; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #2

There are 2% (of the middle class) who won't qualify tawadi Jul 2012 #3

Don't qualify for what? 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #5

98% is a lot of people. Skidmore Jul 2012 #17

The 2% are those who earn over $250,000 marybourg Jul 2012 #28

That implies the ENTIRE population is the middle class karynnj Jul 2012 #52

The last tax 'compromise' hurt the middle class terribly. Continuing the republican wars has hurt Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #16

I will only address the tax assertion ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #18

Yes. It would have been politically unpopular and painful in the short term, but we would be better Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #20

Better off how? 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #22

Sure it would. $300 a year is the difference between eating and starvation for someone Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #23

Are you forgetting ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #27

I don't claim that the debt/deficit is so important right now, exactly the opposite. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #32

While, I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #33

The time to act, as was pointed out for two straight years, was before the mid-term. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #34

Here we disagree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #36

How can you say that with an assumed straight face? It worked? Really? Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #37

It worked because ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #38

I never said and do not maintain that it is all bad, it's not. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #42

Now it's my turn to deny ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #48

You've presented a perfect example of why we're so completely screwed. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #49

Where do you get $300? bornskeptic Jul 2012 #44

The Shrub refund was $300, $600 for couples. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #51

I don't have any faith left in regards to this Marrah_G Jul 2012 #4

Maybe I have this wrong; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #6

tax cuts for the wealthy hurt the middle class Johonny Jul 2012 #7

Tax cuts for the wealthy DO hurt the middle class. Stinky The Clown Jul 2012 #9

going by his track record, no, I'm betting some "compromise" quinnox Jul 2012 #8

I have no idea. I'm not holding my breath. I suspect he will choose to help kestrel91316 Jul 2012 #10

Ok. Question time. SoutherDem Jul 2012 #11

Increasing revenue is vital, without that noting else will matter. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #13

BS! What matters now is reducing unemployment and increasing economic growth. bornskeptic Jul 2012 #45

Not advocating austerity at all. I'm completely opposed to it as it is nothing but Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #50

Thank you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #14

Had to go with I don't know. It's campaign mode BO and he's done this before. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #12

kind of a crazy question hfojvt Jul 2012 #15

I agree, except on one important point ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #19

except that just like last time - taxes go up on the wealthy if Obama does nothing hfojvt Jul 2012 #21

You forgot to mention ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #25

Yes, the tax rates will all go up at the end of the year then we can pass a new Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #24

We need to take back the house first. savalez Jul 2012 #39

Then we don't pass it through the Senate Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #41

That's a real nice thought - retroactive payments - but how long do you think a new set of tax sad sally Jul 2012 #46

Then they vote against tax cuts, fine. Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #47

Will the poor and elderly on pensions be helped? Autumn Jul 2012 #26

I hope so. Bettie Jul 2012 #29

yes... handmade34 Jul 2012 #30

We've already lost if the question/debate is framed as.... vi5 Jul 2012 #31

I don't think so. It will turn into a political hot potato and the dems will cave. But hope boston bean Jul 2012 #35

The middle class ALWAYS get fucked! Spoonman Jul 2012 #40

kind of a snarky way to put this?? progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #43