General Discussion

Cary

(11,746 posts)

55. Sigh--I think we need to be careful here

Tue Jul 10, 2012, 10:33 AM

Jul 2012

Like all good lies, the one you're alluding to here has some truth in it. Ironically it's all relative and "conservatives" can't stand relativity. They have to see things in black and white.

If you spend $100,000 a year and earn $250,000, paying about $75,000 in taxes, then yes it is "a lot of money." Under this scenario you save $75,000 a year and it won't take too long until you have financial independence.

However if instead of spending only $100,000 you piss away another $200,000, or if something happens that's out of your control, then it's not a lot of money. Now we might argue that the person who can't get by on $250,000 a year is an idiot and we might even be right. But then we're getting into "conservative" schadenfreude territory. Aren't we?

Of course if you look at what the average person earns then yes, $250,000 is definitely a lot of money.

But I think we need to be real careful here because we might play into the shred of truth in the "conservative" meme of "class warfare."

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Anyone who says $250,000/year isn't a lot of money is either stupid or they think we are [View all] NNN0LHI Jul 2012 OP

Amen.... vi5 Jul 2012 #1

Hell, one poster even included 2k/month in savings and called it an "expense". Bonobo Jul 2012 #2

And here is the other thing about the discussion.... vi5 Jul 2012 #4

when the 'little people' bitch about not being able to live on $12K or whatever, they're told to HiPointDem Jul 2012 #103

lol -- indeed fishwax Jul 2012 #144

yeh, but that fremont zip doesn't carry the same cache as that noes valley zip code.. frylock Jul 2012 #114

The money you save by not commuting, cleaner air, socialized medicine, public transit might make Noe diane in sf Jul 2012 #130

I have always considered savings as an expense, i.e. not optional. badtoworse Jul 2012 #12

The monthly food bill is an expense, savings is a luxury some can not afford. 1-Old-Man Jul 2012 #18

My wife and I have always used payroll deductions for savings badtoworse Jul 2012 #44

You have not been poor. Or had an expensive chronic health problem. Or had kids with problems... riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #47

What would you do if you if your boss cut you back by 3 hours per week? badtoworse Jul 2012 #51

But you'd expect someone to save "something" on $8.25/hr? JBoy Jul 2012 #57

You can't save ANYTHING on $8.25/hour riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #68

toilet paper tampons xmas74 Jul 2012 #75

And gawd forbid its a heavy flow month. riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #141

Never stolen from public places xmas74 Jul 2012 #148

I've swiped toilet paper AND brown rest room paper towels AND light bulbs--oh, yeah! MADem Jul 2012 #152

grotesque is right justabob Jul 2012 #82

when you are living off of $350 take home pay every 2 weeks RedRocco Jul 2012 #97

Wow - that's amazing. xxqqqzme Jul 2012 #107

uugh lunasun Jul 2012 #111

As I posted below, anyone who can save $2000 a month is saving more Lydia Leftcoast Jul 2012 #87

Must be nice not to need every fricking penny simply to survive with an incredibly kestrel91316 Jul 2012 #101

That post was ridiculous mathematic Jul 2012 #58

Hey why don't you respond to the post in that thread taught_me_patience Jul 2012 #112

Why? Because I knew I'd get some BS response like this mathematic Jul 2012 #113

They are able to save more than the median US family total income gollygee Jul 2012 #122

The 401k contribution is 2k...which adds up to 24k/yr taught_me_patience Jul 2012 #124

The issue is that if you can afford to save more money than most people make gollygee Jul 2012 #126

Agreed. geckosfeet Jul 2012 #3

It's a terrific amount of money... trumad Jul 2012 #5

I understand. But it is a bad compromise. Bonobo Jul 2012 #6

"Let the Bush tax cuts expire completely" handmade34 Jul 2012 #8

I agree. If we're going to raise taxes, it should be across the board. badtoworse Jul 2012 #19

it is NOT raising taxes handmade34 Jul 2012 #21

If my tax bill goes up, the government has raised my taxes. badtoworse Jul 2012 #26

let's say... handmade34 Jul 2012 #36

Since you're looking at it from a marketing standpoint,... badtoworse Jul 2012 #52

It is a tax increas any way you look at it...n/t Meg_Griffin_1 Jul 2012 #77

propaganda of the right n't grasswire Jul 2012 #92

no handmade34 Jul 2012 #120

The tax is not on the whole amount of taxable income. LiberalFighter Jul 2012 #38

That irrelevant in my book badtoworse Jul 2012 #45

ok handmade34 Jul 2012 #53

This isn't a philosophical argument-- it's a mathematical one. Marr Jul 2012 #73

Yeah, right. Make it even HARDER for the poor to even survive. Because, you know, kestrel91316 Jul 2012 #102

I'm cool with that... trumad Jul 2012 #10

Absolutely! $100,000 and less. I've been saying that all along. RC Jul 2012 #20

very important... handmade34 Jul 2012 #23

Just to clarify.... >$250k also get a cut jeff47 Jul 2012 #35

For many people in this country, isn't that about six yrs of income? SammyWinstonJack Jul 2012 #7

I could live eight years on it. caseymoz Jul 2012 #16

$250,000 barely covers my shoe upkeep. onehandle Jul 2012 #9

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2012 #62

ftw frylock Jul 2012 #115

A lot of people like that say that because they Lucky Luciano Jul 2012 #11

Oh course we feel poor compared to that.... daleanime Jul 2012 #46

Not me. Hypothetical scenario above. nt Lucky Luciano Jul 2012 #61

And we're talking about a top marginal increase of less than 5% Hippo_Tron Jul 2012 #138

I was talking about why some $250k people say Lucky Luciano Jul 2012 #142

Where does Schumer Fall? NCTraveler Jul 2012 #13

Given that he wants to enact a 30% Exit tax on people renouncing American citizenship, and ieoeja Jul 2012 #118

It's a nice salary and even in places like northern NJ, you'll be very comfortable. badtoworse Jul 2012 #14

Total and absolute bollocks... truebrit71 Jul 2012 #79

As a self-employed person, I sometimes have months where my WHOLE INCOME Lydia Leftcoast Jul 2012 #85

No kidding.... truebrit71 Jul 2012 #95

STOP. SUPPORTING. THE. 1%. kestrel91316 Jul 2012 #106

People that earn that much usually also live in high-priced cities. Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #15

And most of the people who live in those high-priced cities make less than $250K 1-Old-Man Jul 2012 #22

I never stated that was the norm, I am not the confused one here. Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #40

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2012 #63

A truly Progressive income tax wouldn't even start until 50K. TrollBuster9090 Jul 2012 #29

Again, we're talking about raising their taxes very marginally (if at all) Hippo_Tron Jul 2012 #139

agreed. barbtries Jul 2012 #17

$250 000 is, what, SIX TIMES the median U.S. salary? It's a lot of money. And furthermore... TrollBuster9090 Jul 2012 #24

My peak earning was around $100,000/AN in the late 90s. trof Jul 2012 #25

I think we're both in rare agreement here. I can only assume people who are... Poll_Blind Jul 2012 #27

and the media is the main culprit for trying to perpetuate that lie /nt still_one Jul 2012 #28

It's All Relative Iggy Jul 2012 #30

And the ones I know would steal the penny's off their own deceased mothers eyes NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #32

The Mentally Ill/Sociopaths Need Iggy Jul 2012 #34

The pennies too. deaniac21 Jul 2012 #119

I could retire on $250K, forever, and live well. DCKit Jul 2012 #31

Whose bullshit? elias7 Jul 2012 #42

You went out of your way to attack what I said. DCKit Jul 2012 #50

Post at my peril? So ominous... elias7 Jul 2012 #100

That's 6.25 times more than what I make yearly. Javaman Jul 2012 #33

2 years in a row I made $100,000 a year before taxes NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #37

Well first, they're paying $67,000 in taxes. How much are you paying? elias7 Jul 2012 #39

They were paying the exact same amount into FICA as I was NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #41

FICA caps at 7.65% of earnings up to $106,800 elias7 Jul 2012 #98

Retired in 2003 and made it to the cap twice during my entire working life before that NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #110

I've made it to the cap the last 5 years elias7 Jul 2012 #140

they're paying fica at a lower rate than i am, because they only pay it on the first $106K. why HiPointDem Jul 2012 #105

Well, it's ProSense Jul 2012 #43

It's pitiful, really, to make that much AND whine about it. nt bemildred Jul 2012 #48

when you know people and know they still have nothing thenyou change your mind Johonny Jul 2012 #49

I Have Lived in Manhattan, NYC for 16 Years Yavin4 Jul 2012 #60

but you're not trying to live the American dream Johonny Jul 2012 #80

That's why it's called a "dream". You act like it's a right to live beyond "the means the average Romulox Jul 2012 #86

You really don't appreciate it Johonny Jul 2012 #109

Sorry, nope. It's no more tragic for a former high earner to be poor than anyone else. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #121

I agree Johonny Jul 2012 #125

People who are unable to think for themselves deserve a double helping of scorn. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #133

Hell yeah! I could point you to arguments I've had on DU about that very subject Orrex Jul 2012 #54

Sigh--I think we need to be careful here Cary Jul 2012 #55

unnnn, conservatives understand 250k is a lot of dough yearly even in areas that are expensive... uponit7771 Jul 2012 #65

You miss the points about relativity and the deeper points with respect to their messaging Cary Jul 2012 #71

There is hand wringing about someone making over a quarter million a year TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #72

This is an interesting problem with respect to perception Cary Jul 2012 #74

Bravo! Hell Hath No Fury Jul 2012 #78

I doubt any of us disagree with anything there Cary Jul 2012 #83

$250,000 Is MORE than Enough to Live in the Most Expensive Areas of The USA Yavin4 Jul 2012 #56

No, it's middle class, totally !!!! steve2470 Jul 2012 #59

+1! ...I lived in LA, My wife and I SWORE to live under our means and we were able to do it because uponit7771 Jul 2012 #66

That's awesome, truly. steve2470 Jul 2012 #67

Oh, come on people!!! Don't you know all that "bad economy" stuff is for "the little people"? Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #64

$250,000+ as a salary and as 1099 private business income should be treated differently. EpsilonZer0 Jul 2012 #69

Your friend needs a better accountant. PETRUS Jul 2012 #90

I'm thinking it's somewhat difficult laundry_queen Jul 2012 #135

Salary vs. Income zipplewrath Jul 2012 #70

The DUer who once told me I was "a bigot against the rich" (sic!) will be along shortly... Romulox Jul 2012 #76

Sounds like most here want an income cap B2G Jul 2012 #81

We have excessive concentration of wealth Cary Jul 2012 #88

So you are for income caps? B2G Jul 2012 #89

I find it odd that you would extrapolate this so aggressively Cary Jul 2012 #91

I have no issue with progressive taxation B2G Jul 2012 #93

I think there is an extreme of the sort you describe Cary Jul 2012 #99

We don't want income caps. We just want income over a certain high amount to be taxed kestrel91316 Jul 2012 #108

I guess I misinterpreted the 'fuck them' in the OP B2G Jul 2012 #116

clearly.. frylock Jul 2012 #117

Thanks for chiming in, because it's so hard for the super-wealthy to make their voices heard. Orrex Jul 2012 #96

More often than not, we hear only what we wish to hear... LanternWaste Jul 2012 #104

Is that how you read this thread? It only looks to me like people think that folks who make that muc gollygee Jul 2012 #123

Thanks to Cheap Labor Conservatism B Calm Jul 2012 #147

Years ago the NY Times carried one of their typical out-of-touch articles about a Manhattan family Lydia Leftcoast Jul 2012 #84

It is a crock of shit, but we should also DonCoquixote Jul 2012 #94

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #127

250k actually is not that high samsingh Jul 2012 #128

Do you think eliminating the FICA cap would be the fair thing to do? NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #129

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jul 2012 #143

And again, we're talking about a pretty marginal increase Hippo_Tron Jul 2012 #149

We should all live on crusts and wear sackcloth. MrSlayer Jul 2012 #131

You are falling into the right wing trap of equating income with wealth. JoePhilly Jul 2012 #132

If it isn't a lot of money to someone, they made some interesting life decisions. David__77 Jul 2012 #134

250k a year is more than my entire family for two generations makes... joshcryer Jul 2012 #136

Additionally, we're talking about a pretty marginal increase Hippo_Tron Jul 2012 #137

For the crowd that wants to drink a 300 dollar bottle of wine, aka Paul Ryan, it probably is chump midnight Jul 2012 #145

I have to work 4.5 years to make that much, B Calm Jul 2012 #146

yeah arely staircase Jul 2012 #150

Gee, I could "survive" on half that....and live like a freaking KING!!!! MADem Jul 2012 #151