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Gothmog

(145,130 posts)
19. Fox News host wrong that no law forbids Russia-Trump collusion
Tue Jun 27, 2017, 07:03 PM
Jun 2017

Here is some more on why collusion between trump and Russia would be a crime http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/may/31/gregg-jarrett/fox-news-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/

We ran Jarrett’s argument by three election law professors, and they all said that while the word "collusion" might not appear in key statutes (they couldn’t say for sure that it was totally absent), working with the Russians could violate criminal laws.

Nathaniel Persily at Stanford University Law School said one relevant statute is the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002.

"A foreign national spending money to influence a federal election can be a crime," Persily said. "And if a U.S. citizen coordinates, conspires or assists in that spending, then it could be a crime."

Persily pointed to a 2011 U.S. District Court ruling based on the 2002 law. The judges said that the law bans foreign nationals "from making expenditures to expressly advocate the election or defeat of a political candidate."

Another election law specialist, John Coates at Harvard University Law School, said if Russians aimed to shape the outcome of the presidential election, that would meet the definition of an expenditure.

"The related funds could also be viewed as an illegal contribution to any candidate who coordinates (colludes) with the foreign speaker," Coates said.

To be sure, no one is saying that coordination took place. What’s in doubt is whether the word "collusion" is as pivotal as Jarrett makes it out to be.

Coates said discussions between a campaign and a foreigner could violate the law against fraud.

"Under that statute, it is a federal crime to conspire with anyone, including a foreign government, to ‘deprive another of the intangible right of honest services,’ " Coates said. "That would include fixing a fraudulent election, in my view, within the plain meaning of the statute."

Josh Douglas at the University of Kentucky Law School offered two other possible relevant statutes.

"Collusion in a federal election with a foreign entity could potentially fall under other crimes, such as against public corruption," Douglas said. "There's also a general anti-coercion federal election law."

In sum, legal experts mentioned four criminal laws that might have been broken. The key is not whether those statutes use the word collusion, but whether the activities of the Russians and Trump associates went beyond permissible acts.

Treason. Republican treason Achilleaze Jun 2017 #1
That would be treason onecaliberal Jun 2017 #2
It just doesn't seem possible that a president is Treasonous LakeArenal Jun 2017 #3
There is a reason Treason is specifically listed in the constitution marylandblue Jun 2017 #6
Yes, and it doesn't apply here. I'd like a serious answer Hortensis Jun 2017 #25
It is likely that the only actual crime is going to be obstruction. Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #28
I've heard that obstruction is also potentially questionable, Hortensis Jun 2017 #35
As long as he is president, nothing he or his campaign team did or are doing is illegal Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #36
I've heard that first argued, but it'd unquestionably Hortensis Jun 2017 #37
The constitution is pretty clear. Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #47
An insane traitor has taken over our country and shit is not really being done about it! Lint Head Jun 2017 #4
A lot is being done about it, but it is all locked away in Mueller's office for now marylandblue Jun 2017 #9
Exactly. And in the intelligence services' of various Hortensis Jun 2017 #39
If there was quid pro quo to get info or assistance from the hacking DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #5
Treasonous, but doesn't rise to the level of Treason Mr. Ected Jun 2017 #7
This would be it, I think. DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #12
There would have to be classified information involved. Not needed to get Trump elected. Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #29
Lots are things are classified DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #31
Yes of course lots of things are classified. Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #34
If they were competent and of good judgement, Hortensis Jun 2017 #43
Nothing in a campaign is classified, by definition. AngryAmish Jun 2017 #41
Flynn had security clearance DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #45
I would be careful underestimating the stupidity of the Trump administration mythology Jun 2017 #44
Sure. I hope they were that stupid. Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #46
"Treasonous" is the adjective form of "Treason." They are, IOW, the same. WinkyDink Jun 2017 #21
quid pro quo isn't necessary for espionage unblock Jun 2017 #11
No I agree. But the quid pro quo signifies an exchange DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #13
i'm not sure why he isn't guilty with obvious public information unblock Jun 2017 #15
Hillary's private server doesn't really count. Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #32
Thanks -- can hacking a non-government computer constitute espionage? unblock Jun 2017 #38
QUID: Trump's loans get forgiven, and he's allowed to live. QUO: Putin/Russian bankers get their WinkyDink Jun 2017 #24
It may be a crime so incredible no one ever thought to make it illegal. rzemanfl Jun 2017 #8
computer espionage/conspiracy to commit; computer tresspassing/conspiracy to commit unblock Jun 2017 #10
Depends on what the collusion was about. If it was about influencing the election, The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2017 #14
There are so many...Where does one even begin? Here are a few MedusaX Jun 2017 #16
Thanks for this. Bookmarking. Mr. Ected Jun 2017 #17
Collussion is a crime Gothmog Jun 2017 #18
Fox News host wrong that no law forbids Russia-Trump collusion Gothmog Jun 2017 #19
Hello? TREASON. Throwing a Presidential election is TREASON. Then there's.... WinkyDink Jun 2017 #20
No, it isn't Spider Jerusalem Jun 2017 #22
"giving them aid and comfort." ... wouldn't collusion fall into that category? YCHDT Jun 2017 #23
So I didn't add the WELL-KNOWN PART about "with the aid of Russia, in order to install Russian WinkyDink Jun 2017 #26
We're not at war with Russia. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2017 #30
And yet you waited until Post #20 to write this, when Post #1............ WinkyDink Jun 2017 #27
Not that there's anything wrong with that! struggle4progress Jun 2017 #33
Conspiracy to commit illegal cyber access CanonRay Jun 2017 #40
Collusion with any foreign country, friend or foe by a citizen is treason. nt Blue_true Jun 2017 #42
It's in the US Code of Law kentuck Jun 2017 #48
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