(CNN) Sen. Bernie Sanders : 'Democratic brand is pretty bad'

[BainsBane]

244. It's really tiresome

Last edited Wed Jun 28, 2017, 11:56 PM - Edit history (1)

to insist that anyone who dares to criticize Sanders holds a grudge about the primary. That damn race was resolved nearly a year and half ago. The concerns are what he says NOW, not well over a year ago. You are of course within your rights to agree with him than the Democrats are worse than Republicans, or to use his Madison Ave language, our "brand" is worse than Trump's. (Trump has been selling crap is whole life. His entire existence is about his brand. The Democrats care about governing. So why they should be expected to mount a corporate media image like TV billionaires do, I can't begin to imagine).

I do not happen to believe that messaging and image--brand--is more important than policy. I do not favor the Republican approach to politics, that sees tax cuts as more essential that basic healthcare and survival. I do not believe trashing the EPA and Paris Climate Change agreement is worse than environmental conservation and research into sustainable, green energy. I happen to support the notion that government can do good, that its function is not to redistribute a trillion plus from the poor to the wealthy. Therefore I can't begin to imagine how one could possibly say the Democratic Party or its brand is worse than Trump. And I think it entirely reasonable that I, as a Democrat, object to my party being insulted as worse than Trump, a man I view as among the most reprehensible in public life. If you can't understand something that basic, you really aren't in a position to be giving political advice to anyone. If you can't figure out that continually denigrating voters and their party can cause resentment, there are some basic aspects of human nature that you fail to grasp. We are told we should be understanding of the white male, $100k plus a year voters who chose Trump, yet we aren't treated with a modicum of that respect. I find that curious.

I see the claims that any criticism or concern about Sanders is "resentment about the primary" as an effort to silence dissent and impose deference toward one man. It reveals a view in which we as citizens are held as unfit to criticize someone who is elected to represent the citizens of VT, but who is treated as infallible, whose every word is upheld over the citizens. Nor do I understand the basis for the argument, since presumably it's based on the assumption that people oppose democratic elections with two or more candidates, which I most certainly do not.

I also think if people are going to claim to know how to win elections, they ought to have some track record to draw on. When they and their endorsed candidates have yet to win a single race, even underperforming the Democratic party, I can't help but feel puzzled by the zealous determination in which they proclaim a solution which has yet to result in a single victory. And when their claims about the 2016 election are directly refuted by exit poll data and post-election surveys, yet they demonstrate no interest in considering that data, I understand that what I am confronted with is far from evidence-based.

As for this point:

At no point have I seen him ever indicate that the party must "adopt his thinking wholeheartedly," or in its entirety. Nor have I seen anyone "dismissing" the majority. Instead I see a politican who had a message, elevated it, and continues to articulate it now that it has shown to have sizeable support from those on the left side of the line in American politics.

I disagree with your assessment. I understand the argument, as expressed by both him and his supporters on this site, very differently. I am repeatedly told that if we don't do what he says, we can't win. There is also the assumption that any disagreement with him amounts to a refusal to change. Not so. One man does not encapsulate the entirety of political options.

He *still* disagrees with the path chosen by centrist Democrats, and chooses to voice that.

Okay. Only I have some issues with the "Berniecrat" conception of left vs. right. I see some of the ideas, or perhaps discourse is a better term, as quite conservative.

We cannot win with only half of our electorate's support, and continuing to voice his ideas is a way to ensure that those policies that resonate with many of us continue to be discussed.

What ideas are those? Do any involve actual policy? Because I would love to see a thread about something of substance. All I hear about is messaging and "new faces." I hear a lot of rhetoric about how corrupt the Democratic party is, how white male Republican voters are the salt of the earth, "working people," misunderstood and insufficiently catered to. So what idea am I supposed to be persuaded by? That "identity politics,"--my life as a single woman living in an urban area, whose neighbors include Latinos, African Americans, and immigrants, are too "divisive"? That my reproductive rights and their role in ensuring the economic survival of a substantial majority of the population (women and children) are not important enough to be a priority for the party? That it's too impractical and divisive to encumber the profits of the corporate gun lobby so that I can be safe from gun fire? So, if you have any ideas that don't revolve around reducing me to second-class citizenship or compelling me to acknowledge my inferiority to those who vote differently from me, share them at any time, please.

And maybe, just maybe, you could try something entirely new and make the discussion about a policy rather than a man? Hey, you never know. You might just get somewhere.