General Discussion

JohnnyRingo

(20,878 posts)

169. You'd probably consider me guilty of that.

Fri Dec 30, 2011, 11:02 PM

Dec 2011

Though I believe simple critisism well in bounds, like the aforementioned trio in the OP.

I do get upset with those who call for his ouster next year, or those who demand impeachment or worse, and I've seen a lot of that in the past few months, including posters ignorantly advocating for a third party candidate here in a site called Democratic Underground. I got into a lengthy discussion with someone who stated simply that we should all work together to see that Obama lands in a "cold dark cell in the Hague". He didn't understand how anyone in DU could possibly see it otherwise.

This kind of defeatism goes beyond carping about the subpar job Obama has done in satisfying the wants of progressives, and sets up a return to a GOP led White House next year for the sake of sending a message that we don't like current policy. I simply can't accept that scenario. It's like shooting myself in the foot with a .44 magnum to get out of gym class.

Once upon a time, a primary challenge may have been a constructive tool, but that day passed in very early 2011 when such a campaign would have had to already be in place and supported by the Democratic party. There's no such thing as a successful last minute presidential run on a shoestring budget these days.

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I see people like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi and Cenk Uygur are being attacked in a big way [View all] Cali_Democrat Dec 2011 OP

... dionysus Dec 2011 #1

no... but it's an effort by many to destroy the truth fascisthunter Dec 2011 #41

+1 treestar Dec 2011 #132

You never really loved them!!... SidDithers Dec 2011 #206

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #269

Well, ProSense Dec 2011 #2

Attacking Ron Paul supporter Glenn Greenwald and "former" neo-con Cenk Uygur? TheWraith Dec 2011 #39

neo-con? hardly.nt Snotcicles Dec 2011 #89

Lol, that's why slammed the neocon's foreign policies sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #141

Glenn Greenwald is not a Ron Paul supporter or if he is he hasn't publicly endorsed him. Puregonzo1188 Dec 2011 #97

Explain his ties to the Cato Institute. -nt CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #219

He did a study on drug decriminalization in Portugal... Hissyspit Dec 2011 #230

Cenk Uygur, Neo-con? MsPithy Dec 2011 #178

Utter nonsense. Hissyspit Dec 2011 #231

You have to actually read Glenn Greenwald to understand his analytical mind. I guess it's easier sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #253

Nice Job 99th_Monkey Dec 2011 #232

completely dishonest and defamatory claim/post inna Dec 2011 #261

Why did you credit an article written by Jake Tapper to Greenwald? Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #52

No answer yet, I was going to ask the same question. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #62

She changed the attribution on the original but now neither one Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #74

Anyone who dares to write critical pieces about the administration quinnox Dec 2011 #3

So ProSense Dec 2011 #4

bah, we all can't quinnox Dec 2011 #7

Ah ProSense Dec 2011 #11

No, but how about just reading what they say? caseymoz Dec 2011 #18

Wait ProSense Dec 2011 #23

If you disagree with it. sendero Dec 2011 #88

^^^^^^ +10 n/t Donnachaidh Dec 2011 #116

THIS Maven Dec 2011 #184

Well, ProSense Dec 2011 #192

so got root Dec 2011 #215

Are you serious? sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #273

+ a bajillion x infinity. Phlem Dec 2011 #247

You don't think campaigns can be covertly directed? caseymoz Dec 2011 #222

I liked the old ProSense better. Fuddnik Dec 2011 #237

I didn't like the old Phlem Dec 2011 #248

That argument is disingenuous. The OP pointed out that these folks were ... Scuba Dec 2011 #234

thank you and well said Slit Skirt Dec 2011 #241

Logic check! sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #65

Um ProSense Dec 2011 #77

Well, I think we agree somewhat anyhow, which I already stated: sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #90

Actually it turns out that hardly anyone is persuaded by facts Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #151

no - they only impress INTELLIGENT people Skittles Dec 2011 #126

Yeah, ProSense Dec 2011 #197

More like anyone who lies to trash the administration goes on the list... TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #50

+1 emilyg Dec 2011 #128

Well apparently opposing the precious pundits is displeasing to their treestar Dec 2011 #133

Yep, the reason I've been spared the public flogging tavalon Dec 2011 #243

I don't know, but it's disgusting. hifiguy Dec 2011 #5

You know ProSense Dec 2011 #8

Isn't free speech free speech? caseymoz Dec 2011 #30

Wait ProSense Dec 2011 #40

That's a gross distortion of what I said caseymoz Dec 2011 #217

+ 15 Slit Skirt Dec 2011 #242

Nope tavalon Dec 2011 #244

Since you seemed confused on a point, I'll clarify: caseymoz Dec 2011 #246

You forgot to mention how many rec'd Cenk's diary on DK. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #275

I didn't specifically accuse anyone of anything hifiguy Dec 2011 #31

What ProSense Dec 2011 #45

Whatever. hifiguy Dec 2011 #49

Well, ProSense Dec 2011 #56

I guess you are not familiar with the term hifiguy Dec 2011 #57

Are ProSense Dec 2011 #64

My reference was back to my own post, in which I hifiguy Dec 2011 #66

And ProSense Dec 2011 #68

Meh. hifiguy Dec 2011 #70

What's the word ProSense Dec 2011 #79

You sure did move the goalposts. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #276

You would get a better argument from one of the goalposts. n/t A Simple Game Dec 2011 #107

It's all black or white, 100% or 0% to the very busy haranguers. FredStembottom Dec 2011 #249

Don't waste your time Cali_Democrat Dec 2011 #69

Very Obvious pmorlan1 Dec 2011 #121

Are you saying you're not libertarian on civil liberties issues? JackRiddler Dec 2011 #152

Thank you for your reasoned posts. I hope this is not a preview of the coming election season sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #67

Thank you Sabrina and CaliDem! hifiguy Dec 2011 #71

By "Smearing and attacking rather than providing reasons to support Democrats." A Simple Game Dec 2011 #108

Very measured response: Betty Karlson Dec 2011 #72

No you skirt around it by saying that anybody who doesn't agree with your position mythology Dec 2011 #143

I don't expect an "echo chamber" but SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #83

Sad, isn't it? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #101

Hear Hear!!!! n/t unionworks Dec 2011 #35

I agree... it is disgusting and an embarrassment to the Democratic Party fascisthunter Dec 2011 #38

'Do they really represent the democrats'? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #98

As opposed to calling people trolls or cult members? mythology Dec 2011 #144

Yes, people start off with attacks on those they disagree with and that starts a vicious cycle sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #148

welcome to the war within our own party fascisthunter Jan 2012 #282

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! nt valerief Dec 2011 #81

^^WHAT^^HE^^SAID ~nt 99th_Monkey Dec 2011 #233

How does disagreement on DU with what they write and say MineralMan Dec 2011 #6

Many of these are attacks on the persons, not what is said. That is what makes them Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #63

I see people like Obama, Biden, and Hillary are being attacked in a big way. MineralMan Dec 2011 #9

There's a difference. We pay Obama's, Hillary's, and Biden's salaries. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #14

If you pay their salaries, does that mean you control their message? nt msanthrope Dec 2011 #37

You pay the pundits' salaries treestar Dec 2011 #134

you silencing silencer of dissent! why, i'm pretty sure you have shut down 99.999999% of all dionysus Dec 2011 #19

You mean you've seen some of their policies and appointments attacked in a big way, right? n/t eridani Dec 2011 #138

Honest description of what they actually do is not an "attack." JackRiddler Dec 2011 #153

And the attackers have DU accomplices. Kucinich of course. Wont surprise me if they rhett o rick Dec 2011 #10

Definitely Kucinich Cali_Democrat Dec 2011 #13

well, their views are too the right of him fascisthunter Dec 2011 #43

Tsk. Tsk. They are troublemakers who don't toe the party line or join the fan club. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #12

Nailed it slay Dec 2011 #26

Bingo! nt hifiguy Dec 2011 #33

You know that darned reality gratuitous Dec 2011 #15

Hear, hear peace frog Dec 2011 #99

Picking on Cenk, commondreams, and truthout seems a bit cruel. gulliver Dec 2011 #16

I don't see how this.. 99Forever Dec 2011 #17

Who's silencing anyone? frazzled Dec 2011 #20

+1 n/t FSogol Dec 2011 #51

+1 treestar Dec 2011 #135

Damn right. peace frog Dec 2011 #189

No one is silencing anyone. It's the ridicule that's damaging. stillwaiting Dec 2011 #236

It happens in both directions frazzled Dec 2011 #240

I thought I was very clear in my post. stillwaiting Dec 2011 #259

Yes, much clearer now, thanks frazzled Dec 2011 #266

Specifics? TiberiusB Jan 2012 #272

Taibbi is very independent. I read of his life's experiences and love his writing style. JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #21

Nobody has exposed the banksters quite like Matt Taibbi IMO Cali_Democrat Dec 2011 #29

Yes he has..... midnight Dec 2011 #104

Indeed, and he does it in my language JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #158

ITA. I also like Greenwald, even when I disagree with him tishaLA Dec 2011 #119

Not them, their ideas and opinions. n/t savalez Dec 2011 #22

I've noticed that over the last few days as well slay Dec 2011 #24

+10 RC Dec 2011 #84

The use one logical fallacy after another- but what does that behavior reap? Poll_Blind Dec 2011 #85

You'd probably consider me guilty of that. JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #169

I hear ya slay Dec 2011 #195

Can't ask for more than an open mind JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #204

Paul Krugman Enrique Dec 2011 #25

I ProSense Dec 2011 #36

What crimes did these guys do to get lumped in with the Hamster? msanthrope Dec 2011 #58

All 3, for the right or wrong reasons, have spent a good deal of their careers attacking people... phleshdef Dec 2011 #27

Silenced? I have seen no damn stinking silencing going on. tabatha Dec 2011 #28

I'd like to see some opinions of the points raised discussed rather than personal attacks TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #124

When folks in their own Party cannot Take Criticism to Improve fascisthunter Dec 2011 #32

Indeed. And of course the President himself has publicly asked... Poll_Blind Dec 2011 #78

you are aware the slight difference between 'holding feet to fire' and 'toss him in the bonfire' yes Bodhi BloodWave Dec 2011 #208

that's too bad isn't it? That's how a democracy is... fascisthunter Jan 2012 #281

How can you hold the country above a political party? treestar Dec 2011 #136

So you'd rather have it the other way around? LiberalLovinLug Dec 2011 #262

Getting cozy down here. MuseRider Dec 2011 #34

The new ignore function allows for maximum comfort, too. theaocp Dec 2011 #42

The thing is that I think Cenk, for example, is an asshat. MineralMan Dec 2011 #44

I reject the idea that name calling is political discourse at all. Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #60

You can add me too. I never understood the need to name-call which from my observations sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #82

x3 AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #127

warning: agents of the dear leader(s) will have you disappeared or droned w/out trial if you persist msongs Dec 2011 #46

It's interesting that you choose the North Korean term for MineralMan Dec 2011 #48

melodrama: check persecution complex: check. dionysus Dec 2011 #55

Wow, I've only heard that term before treestar Dec 2011 #137

Who is being 'silenced'? Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #47

List? There's a list?? Spazito Dec 2011 #53

My Taibbi thread has over 150 recs. trumad Dec 2011 #54

Small and very vocal. bahrbearian Dec 2011 #95

Fall in line for what? TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #59

Silenced? Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #61

I find it amusing Summer Hathaway Dec 2011 #73

Do you have a link to that OP? Because you must be reading something else. EFerrari Dec 2011 #80

I responded to this OP Summer Hathaway Dec 2011 #93

No, you can't be responding to the OP EFerrari Dec 2011 #190

I never said the OP mentioned lockstepping Summer Hathaway Dec 2011 #207

exactly! We can't be in "lock step" long enough to get someone elected treestar Dec 2011 #139

They're not fawning over Obama... joeybee12 Dec 2011 #75

I'd be willing to bet schoolyard name calling and shallow critiques don't bother them. pa28 Dec 2011 #76

I agree. And to think, they used to be incredibly popular here at DU Quantess Dec 2011 #86

In what crazy world is criticism the same as "being silenced"? Bucky Dec 2011 #87

Right here on this forum, apparently. CakeGrrl Jan 2012 #286

Just recently started posting here again after a long hiatus sandyd921 Dec 2011 #91

actually, it's a small - but extremely, uh, vocal - fraction of the DU (what used to be) community. inna Dec 2011 #172

When do we get the 'ignore' button back? Owlet Dec 2011 #92

It's already there mythology Dec 2011 #146

Thank you. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #216

K&R bahrbearian Dec 2011 #94

And with this post, irony gasped, shuddered, and finally died. Robb Dec 2011 #96

The hate us for our Freedoms: bvar22 Dec 2011 #100

And for valuing a rare thing in this country, objective, analytic reporting which is what Glenn sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #109

Sabrina, you are a true DU treasure and one of the few reasons to continue reading DU at this point inna Dec 2011 #167

Your post reads like bad parody. n/t Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #154

project much? (purely rhetorical) inna Dec 2011 #168

Did you have a point? Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #171

i did, and i stated it inna Dec 2011 #188

And you stated it very well, as always, inna! sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #209

How odd Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #228

Which actually doesn't make any sense Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #227

Mmm, well, I just stopped and thought about it sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #277

Agreed. Google: "Operation Mockingbird". webDude Dec 2011 #102

Taibbi has baselessly called Obama "criminally compliant" with Wall St. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #103

It's hard to find this on the web. Do you have a link to support the claim? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #114

I have a new thread up - I will make sure everyone knows what a liar Taibbi is. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #123

And the evidence-free fiesta continues TiberiusB Jan 2012 #274

Excellent, thank you. This is the kind of post that contributes something. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #278

Look, I don't care that Taibbi hates Goldman - its his baseless smears against Obama I object to. banned from Kos Jan 2012 #279

Never happened TiberiusB Jan 2012 #283

I should make clear that the CFPB is real TiberiusB Jan 2012 #284

per: both your posts. You write effectively, btw. banned from Kos Jan 2012 #285

Thanks, and I am always interested in hearing opposing viewpoints TiberiusB Jan 2012 #287

As long as it is a discussion and not a flamefest Rex Dec 2011 #105

every election cycle NavyDavy Dec 2011 #106

Who on DU is 'supporting Paul'? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #110

Are you claiming that either Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, or Cenk Uygur are supporting Paul? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #113

How do we know that those who are engaging in such character assasination are not neocons? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #111

Or are those engaging in character assassination against those engaging in character assassination Robb Dec 2011 #112

Yes ProSense Dec 2011 #118

After he threw this firebomb on the DU forum, he left 4 hours ago. Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #120

He who? Incidentally, you have a great moniker. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #125

I must have hurted your feelers. Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #129

More Hogwash? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #130

A rose by any other name . . . Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #147

effing disgusting inna Dec 2011 #162

As I recall Obama is criticized when he speaks up as just treestar Dec 2011 #140

or who else has to be burned at the stake for supporting Obama Whisp Dec 2011 #115

I don't know the rest but Greenwald is an idiot for saying Ron Paul was anti-crony-capitalism. joshcryer Dec 2011 #117

It's an election year Cal Carpenter Dec 2011 #122

They are "silenced?" treestar Dec 2011 #131

I personally have always been annoyed by the pundit-worship on DU. joshcryer Dec 2011 #145

Consider the source pmorlan1 Dec 2011 #142

That's what we're doing here, for crying out loud. Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #150

lol pmorlan1 Dec 2011 #155

Great post. I like that quote, and I agree, Taibbi and Greenwald do great work sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #212

There's a rotation that also includes Jane Hamsher, anyone who publishes on Counterpunch... JackRiddler Dec 2011 #149

Sounds like you need a "safe haven" forum. Robb Dec 2011 #156

Good example of the bullying - no content, telling people to leave. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #157

Good example of dishing, no taking. Robb Dec 2011 #159

I'm happy with a comparison of my post 149 to your 156. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #160

Ach! Foiled! Robb Dec 2011 #161

I guess there's no danger you ever read a book with footnotes. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #163

Never graduated from high school. Robb Dec 2011 #164

Good for you. An eminently likable quality. And you seem to own a thesaurus. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #165

Never took up paleontology. Robb Dec 2011 #170

THAT's what you consider bullying? Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #173

More important is how he has moved on after his victimhood. Robb Dec 2011 #175

Yep. Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #177

I've never seen a thinner skin than from the Obama detractors. joshcryer Dec 2011 #180

It was ProSense Dec 2011 #186

Oh I have! sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #203

Oh really? joshcryer Dec 2011 #211

Sure. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #193

You want to talk about putting words in people's mouths Robb Dec 2011 #201

Four completely unconvincing paragraphs Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #254

As opposed to a quick shot of nothing? JackRiddler Dec 2011 #257

It doesn't matter how many or how few words you throw at it. Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #260

Hey, welcome to DU, Dude! sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #200

Oh, dude! You think? JackRiddler Dec 2011 #251

Guess again. Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #252

S. Whosehisname? JackRiddler Dec 2011 #256

Ah I forgot his name started with an S. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #271

What a perfect illustration of the poster's point. nt woo me with science Dec 2011 #185

I concede you have the moral high ground Robb Dec 2011 #187

Thank you for noticing. woo me with science Dec 2011 #250

Well said. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #179

Perfect summation. nt woo me with science Dec 2011 #183

So ProSense Dec 2011 #191

Since people can read my post for themselves, I see no need to respond to your false paraphrase. JackRiddler Dec 2011 #194

I love the Nader attacks. The man was all powerful, if you were to believe them. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #213

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #166

Cool story, bro. n/t Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #174

I appreciate Summer Hathaway Dec 2011 #221

Current TV rocks! Mimosa Dec 2011 #176

Oh, I get it. if people disagree with them or their outlook, they are being "attacked" killbotfactory Dec 2011 #181

Cenk's diary won the "Thursday Worst Diary Competition" ProSense Dec 2011 #182

He should be proud of that. On DK that is a huge compliment. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #202

No, it's not. Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #210

Thousands of liberals left that blog long ago, and sadly I am seeing some of the same kind of sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #214

And 1000s more are still there!! Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #223

No where near as many as there could have been. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #263

"And very few worth reading anymore." Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #265

Yes, and thousands of others. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #267

Cenk is a Republican and a fucking asshole. Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #268

I doubt he hasn't heard it before. All former Republicans tend to hear it, Kos also. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #270

So you are criticizing critics of the criticism of three critics... bhikkhu Dec 2011 #196

you just like, blew my mind man... slay Dec 2011 #198

I'm ProSense Dec 2011 #199

K&R n/t DeSwiss Dec 2011 #205

Who's being silenced? They're being called out. NOT the same thing. CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #218

Cenk is beginning to sound like Sean Hannity more and more all of the time. Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #224

On this forum? Any thread that cites one of these authors is attacked... JackRiddler Dec 2011 #225

If folks don't march in lock-step, they will be attacked by some, even on the 'underground' got root Dec 2011 #220

I haven't been following all this, but from what little I know, I'm irritated because I feel gateley Dec 2011 #226

Yep, that's how I feel as well. nt MADem Dec 2011 #229

the little boy who said the emperor has no clothes on... madrchsod Dec 2011 #235

How dare anyone criticize, or say anything about points of weakness russspeakeasy Dec 2011 #238

K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2011 #239

What a cluster of fucks! But I guess they're making a living peddling their vitriol. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #245

The Crux Of The Matter colsohlibgal Dec 2011 #255

Great post. Without them pulling on the left, mistertrickster Dec 2011 #258

why shouldn't they be? this is a discussion board. they say cali Dec 2011 #264

Greenwald supported the Iraq war ProSense Jan 2012 #280