General Discussion

KPN

(17,377 posts)

155. Not true. You are putting words in her mouth.

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 12:23 PM

Jul 2017

She talked about specific goals/issues (Medicare for All, Citizens United -- getting big money out) relative to candidates (regardless of party affiliation) and their positions. This is about issues, not the label Democrat. The Democrat brand has been a loser in the recent past -- at every level.

Personally, I feel like some here are taking dissent, differences in views about positions and priorities (though I would argue it's not really a priorities question) well ... personally, and/or getting hung up by the fact that someone might feel a particular candidate (who may not always be an establishment Democrat or even a Democrat) better represents their views. Having a problem with that is fine unless you want those people to actually vote for the Democratic Party candidate.

In the end, it will be a about voters' perceptions. Is the candidate someone who genuinely is committed to leveling the playing field and improving the lives of the working poor and middle class (and this crosses all groups -- race, gender, religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, etc.)? It's about enthusiasm for candidates. Having the letter D next to the name on the ballot hasn't been enough in the recent past. Why would it be in the future?

Appeals to vote for the D because it isn't the R, because it will be even worse under the Rs, haven't been enough. Yet that's the basic argument being made in threads like this one; essentially, the same thing it complains about -- threats. It's not an effective argument.

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I've, and most of us who have been here for quite sometime realize one thing........ [View all] boston bean Jul 2017 OP

I hear very little issue advocacy from those folks. dawg Jul 2017 #1

If you don't hear it it's because you don't WANT to hear it Jim Lane Jul 2017 #54

We had the most progressive policy in Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #58

The only reason the democratic platform was so progressive was because... killbotfactory Jul 2017 #75

In other words, the system worked. dawg Jul 2017 #80

Nonsense...Bernie ideas are Democratic ideas and have been held by many Democrats for years. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #126

Why is is he not a democrat? demosincebirth Jul 2017 #133

Ask him...he does the party a disservice by not joining in my opinion. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #136

He doesn't want to be saddled by rules of a party he does not totally agree with demosincebirth Jul 2017 #182

There you go...I don't disagree. But to me that means Sen. Sanders should have little say in the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #184

Nonsense? killbotfactory Jul 2017 #141

That post is so full of straw men it's a fire hazard. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #114

First of all, I disagree with almost eveything you wrote. We are in a fight for Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #125

You say you disagree with *me* and then you quote... Nina Turner. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #129

I am merely pointing out the shortcomings of "our revolution" and why they get two fucks Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #134

You hit the nail on it's head. Blue_true Jul 2017 #175

Most of what you listed was either in the Democratic Party platform and/or ... dawg Jul 2017 #79

I see it differently. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #117

The point is that you aren't really saying anything all that different from the rest of us. dawg Jul 2017 #120

I was saying something different from your post #1. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #127

Maybe you aren't demonizing people, but a whole helluva lot of other people are. dawg Jul 2017 #138

Those policies were pushed 10% of the time, attacks on Democrats pushed 90% of the time. stevenleser Jul 2017 #97

It is almost as if there is an agenda that has NOTHING to do with what they propose. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #103

Yes, almost as if, right? Very weird. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #104

Your "statistic" reflects hypersensitivity to criticism. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #119

If it was just me it might. When it is almost all the folks who voted Hillary, that's something else stevenleser Jul 2017 #140

More precisely, "*a lot* of the *DUers* who voted for Hillary". Jim Lane Jul 2017 #145

Whatever makes you feel better. But you are wrong. Almost all the Hillary supporters feel similarly. stevenleser Jul 2017 #149

LOL. Inasmuch as you've apparently interviewed several million people... Jim Lane Jul 2017 #150

Don't just ask me, ask Bernie. He and his campaign were sufficiently concerned about it stevenleser Jul 2017 #152

What I said was that your 90% "statistic" was totally bogus. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #153

And the point of the link which you glossed over is that stevenleser Jul 2017 #167

40% of the party in someone's wildest fucking dreams. Blue_true Jul 2017 #174

They don't seem to get politics at all mcar Jul 2017 #2

100% agree ... They seem more about screaming than making progress YCHDT Jul 2017 #3

There's a brain-numbingly slow, boring, & detailed behavior in the actual execution of the political NBachers Jul 2017 #4

I'm curious to know luvtheGWN Jul 2017 #6

Exactly. They seem to want to hang around the Democratic Party and continually bash us with their... brush Jul 2017 #14

The alt-left. Blue_true Jul 2017 #177

"But if I don't understand it, then IT'S CORRUPT! There are EASY ANSWERS ehrnst Jul 2017 #20

++++++++++++++ JHan Jul 2017 #28

How is this not about the last election? AllyCat Jul 2017 #5

Yup. KPN Jul 2017 #31

Our revolution is a terrible organization that bashes Democrats and primaries sitting Democrats. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #59

Yes. And it's going on right now mcar Jul 2017 #89

This we don't need. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #124

I'm still getting their email's LiberalBrooke Jul 2017 #93

I went to their meetings, but since I voted for Hillary I suppose I would be unwelcome anyway...but Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #123

Not to mention is so orthodox they threw out a candidate who voted Bernie in the primary stevenleser Jul 2017 #100

I would say most are both. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #122

Seems like DU isn't much different. If you voted HRC AllyCat Jul 2017 #183

When sitting Democrats don't stand up for the people AllyCat Jul 2017 #118

That is not the case...and it is a waste of time to primary Democrats when we could use the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #121

You keep arguing like you are in the majority. Blue_true Jul 2017 #179

I guess if you put a disclaimer on your post Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #82

So fucking propose the "new ideas" along with practical means of achieving them. Blue_true Jul 2017 #178

Some politics is local NotASurfer Jul 2017 #7

And yet another divide and conquer thread. tiredtoo Jul 2017 #8

Who is doing all this division???? boston bean Jul 2017 #9

the people here that condemn left wing fringe folk. tiredtoo Jul 2017 #10

pointing to facts of some working against the party is dividing who from who?? boston bean Jul 2017 #11

what facts? tiredtoo Jul 2017 #12

exactly what I wrote and is detailed in very specific interview of the president of Our Revolution: boston bean Jul 2017 #16

I Read the article provided in link tiredtoo Jul 2017 #22

And if they don't abide by everything NIna Turner says?? It is the democratic party who is divisive boston bean Jul 2017 #25

Absolutely right. It's not a zero sum game KPN Jul 2017 #34

I invite any single person to vote democratic. That is not what what Nina is saying. boston bean Jul 2017 #35

Keep in mind it's all in the eye of KPN Jul 2017 #43

No, my invitation is please join and vote democratic. Have some leverage within the party to make boston bean Jul 2017 #44

No its not...they attack Democrats...and demand the impossible...I am done with all of them. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #60

Who is "them". Seems like there are plenty of KPN Jul 2017 #157

Not Democrats...I am talking about Green and other third party riffraff. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #159

It is nonsense. But that's what's happened KPN Jul 2017 #172

Elect Democrats and especially in Congress. We need Congress as much Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #185

Wrong. The simple fact is repeated attacks work. kcr Jul 2017 #78

Not true. You are putting words in her mouth. KPN Jul 2017 #155

we have been ruled by republicans for years. tiredtoo Jul 2017 #50

That is untrue...we had it all in 08 and then folks who are now in these splinter anti-Democratic Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #61

For a very short time. boston bean Jul 2017 #95

McConnell is a dick...I mention it only to show that it was that long ago that the GOP was on the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #131

"Purity voters" tiredtoo Jul 2017 #110

As Hillary was the Democratic candidate and the only one who could stop Trump...the Greens that Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #130

The greens were NEVER going to vote for Hillary tiredtoo Jul 2017 #154

"Hillary, not so much". And who was the candidate? See why "purity voters" are despised? lunamagica Jul 2017 #142

Bingo ... KPN Jul 2017 #173

This message was self-deleted by its author Kathy M Jul 2017 #48

This message was self-deleted by its author Kathy M Jul 2017 #49

you maybe juxtaposed Jul 2017 #42

Why not take your list and start your own party? brush Jul 2017 #15

Sorry my friend, even Teddy Roosevelt could not win as a third party candidate. tiredtoo Jul 2017 #23

You don't even realize how silly your post looks under an OP about Stein. stevenleser Jul 2017 #27

Dividing the party contributes to the losing. Don't you get that? brush Jul 2017 #29

This movement or whatever you call it is not about winning. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #62

Because they DO NOT WANT TO BE BROUGHT INTO THE FOLD. boston bean Jul 2017 #17

They don't want to be "brought" anywhere loyalsister Jul 2017 #51

They are not novel ideas and many are already represented by democrats. boston bean Jul 2017 #57

Not here loyalsister Jul 2017 #63

I am not being condescending. Please tell us how bad the democrats are and what you want changed boston bean Jul 2017 #66

Have you visited a rural county? loyalsister Jul 2017 #68

Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth. kcr Jul 2017 #76

Perfect example loyalsister Jul 2017 #98

I live in a rural county. A rural county in the deep South. dawg Jul 2017 #83

Hillary did mcar Jul 2017 #91

Not here loyalsister Jul 2017 #102

If you didn't support the Dem nominee, you are the one being divisive. stevenleser Jul 2017 #26

Anyone who claimed "Clinton is worse than Trump" in 2016 should never be listened to ever again. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #30

You win!!! nikibatts Jul 2017 #67

Exactly. Well stated. KPN Jul 2017 #32

Terribly stated, unsupportable, and blames the victim for the actions of the perpetrator. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #39

Nope ...it names those who enabled Trump and have the nerve to call themselves progressive... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #64

I agree wholeheartedly with your 1st part Nevernose Jul 2017 #90

To stop the "divide or conquer, we must expand the left center voters, not the greens or far left. Lil Missy Jul 2017 #164

We are on the verge of losing the Affordable Care Act... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #13

At the same time, the current environment KPN Jul 2017 #36

You're acting as if this country doesn't know what single payer is... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #40

You're wrong. The country has NOT rejected single payer. The ruling class has. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #55

Single payer health care is not possible now. We need a sixty vote majority in the Senate, a House Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #70

You've brilliantly refuted an argument I did not make. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #112

The point is ...let's not endanger the ACA which we need at least until 2020...and with a 50-50 Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #128

Uh, why is that "the point"? Is there disagreement? Jim Lane Jul 2017 #132

Yes there are. Let's not muddy the water with a cry for single payer at this moment. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #135

There's where we disagree. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #139

That is how I see it. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #146

The GOP will use single payer as a way to get rid of the ACA...just wait until that fight is won... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #147

I'm wrong. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #72

See this is what you don't understand...we have the least chance in our history of passing single Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #65

i agree barbtries Jul 2017 #18

TYT gets a lot of views. dawg Jul 2017 #86

that has crossed my mind. barbtries Jul 2017 #143

This isn't much different than the 60s/70s purists nini Jul 2017 #19

As someone who would have supported either Hillary or Bernie MrPurple Jul 2017 #24

Yes we should coalesce behind the nominee, but we don't marylandblue Jul 2017 #33

I supported Bernie in the Primary, HRC in the general emulatorloo Jul 2017 #37

So again, I ask.... vi5 Jul 2017 #38

We need to combat repug/Russian cheating. That's why we lost. We had/have more voters brush Jul 2017 #41

So...... vi5 Jul 2017 #45

I said as concerted an effort to stop repug cheating as we do to get out our voters brush Jul 2017 #46

Right now repugs control..... vi5 Jul 2017 #52

Like I said, we've already been successful in some states through the courts at stopping vote... brush Jul 2017 #53

Russia is indeed one reason tazkcmo Jul 2017 #81

I'd love to get rid of the EC but doesn't that have to be a Constitutional amendment? brush Jul 2017 #87

Yes, would require a Const. Amendment. tazkcmo Jul 2017 #88

I would like that. Yes I would. brush Jul 2017 #94

this. KG Jul 2017 #47

How do you disregard white working class people loyalsister Jul 2017 #69

We don't.....I agree with that point and have made it many times... vi5 Jul 2017 #73

In order to appeal to 'leftist' voters, we would have to move way left...and in at best a Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #71

You're hearing wrong. kcr Jul 2017 #74

And somehow it is the left that is conducting a purity test. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #84

Very true. This sort are not progressive and only enable the right. They Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #56

My issue is accurately defining what makes one "left-leaning". no_hypocrisy Jul 2017 #77

On here it seems to be... vi5 Jul 2017 #92

K&R... spanone Jul 2017 #85

I've been here longer than you have Spider Jerusalem Jul 2017 #96

Ummm Nader and if there was no GWB term 1 there was no GWB term 2 boston bean Jul 2017 #99

And? Spider Jerusalem Jul 2017 #105

We dont have to guess. 40% of Nader voters would have voted Gore, 20% Bush stevenleser Jul 2017 #108

And Gore would likely have won had the Supreme Court not stopped the recount. Spider Jerusalem Jul 2017 #111

No, unfortunately he wouldn't. Florida's legislature had voted to give Florida's electors to Bush. stevenleser Jul 2017 #113

This person is too busy attempting to refute a point I made but doesn't realize boston bean Jul 2017 #115

That is generally what happens with these folks. Their logic sounds good superficially and if stevenleser Jul 2017 #116

That dead horse you're beating G_j Jul 2017 #162

I'm not sure you know the meaning of that idiom. stevenleser Jul 2017 #165

A-fucking-men... WoonTars Jul 2017 #101

There are so many flaws with your analysis its hard to know where to start stevenleser Jul 2017 #109

+1 nt Owl Jul 2017 #166

We need to attract the largest population of voters, go more centrists, attract Independent voters, Thinkingabout Jul 2017 #106

how much of this "messaging" can be traced back to likes of russian type hackers? beachbum bob Jul 2017 #107

Reinforcing this is not about the last primary wryter2000 Jul 2017 #137

I've been here since 2003 myself Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #144

Thanks, very well said! Jim Lane Jul 2017 #148

Thank you for taking the time G_j Jul 2017 #161

Hillary is never going to be President DefenseLawyer Jul 2017 #151

Try not to sound so happy about that. Jakes Progress Jul 2017 #156

Jesus Christ DefenseLawyer Jul 2017 #163

Forgetting what elected Republicans is worse than that of which you accuse the OP stevenleser Jul 2017 #170

++++ some people haven't gotten the memo yet: JHan Jul 2017 #171

Why do you need to defend those who helped elect trump. Jakes Progress Jul 2017 #181

The OP is pretty clear. JHan Jul 2017 #169

That kind of use of Hillary's name Jakes Progress Jul 2017 #180

No G_j Jul 2017 #158

This OP is flame bait. PassingFair Jul 2017 #160

I've been here as long as you and I don't think you are correct aikoaiko Jul 2017 #168

More finger pointing. guillaumeb Jul 2017 #176