General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: In 18 years since Naders run, what has been accomplished by attacking the Dem party from the left? [View all]rpannier
(24,329 posts)Has blaming those on the left for failures by the party's more corporate friendly shift (beginning in the late 80's and early 90's) helped the party at all.
Looking at the numbers between 90 and now, I'd say no. (see bottom)
I'd also argue that using the late 80's,early 90's is a much better timeline because it gives us a better picture.
Go to the '88 election. Dukakis got smashed, but the Democrats held up very well across the board. Senators, Governorships, House members, etc. But, all the talk was on how we didn't get the Presidency. That was the only thing that seemed to matter.
The party doesn't really listen well to dissenting voices. Though not a leadership member, you certainly make their case for the leadership side, "It's all the fault of the left. Let's blame the left. But don't talk about the systemic party failures."
(See the fall out from this past presidential election: David 'It Never Should Have Been that Close for It to be a Problem' Axelrod, Hillary 'The DNC was a Shambles Financially' Clinton, Barack I won Iowa not because demographics dictated that I would win, it was because I spent 87 days going to every small town [in Iowa], Obama)
There's not a problem at the top? The party does not have serious issues?
What piffle!
You're out here accusing the left of being at fault for the sad state we're in?
WTF ever happened to, "The left is irrelevant." That was a fun meme being bandied about by you and others around here in the Summer of 16. Or, "She's going to be president, so fuck them." Another popular attitude as well. Whatever happened to not needing them?
You don't have to answer. November came and it wasn't what any of us expected.
You're not seriously saying that the sad state of the Party is the fault of the left are you? Because if you are, then you're not as smart as I gave you credit for all these years.
We control what? 5 states!. How many governors do we have? 16.
You're telling me, and everyone reading this, that the paltry 16 governors we have is the fault of the left? Seriously?!
The Democrats fully control 16 state legislatures! 16! Are you telling me that's also their fault?
And let's not forget Washington and New York, where (in NY) it's the Independent Democrats that have been giving control to the Republicans. Two names for you, Hiram Monserrate and Pedro Espada, Jr., look them up. I'll be waiting for your finger wag about their behavior.
When you do write it, ask for blue, I'll be the guy holding my breath waiting
Your claim of attacking is weak on many levels, but more so because you lack any sort of examples to support your claim.
What specifically do you mean by attacking?
Is mentioning the voting record of a candidate attacking? She had many votes, and some I disagreed with. Is bringing them up in discussion attacking? Is bringing up Sanders' votes while in the House and Senate attacking?
Things that any candidate has said, is it attacking, or is it acceptable to you?
Was it acceptable to you (as the author of this piece) for people to be upset about the support shown by the DNC Chairman for Heath Mello in the Omaha Mayor's race? Or was that attacking? Mello was the Democratic candidate, yet many here said they'd never vote for him.
Do you agree with those who said they wouldn't vote for him? You must have an opinion.
I am not going to even pretend that the rancor on the DU was even moderately civil. It was rather pathetic in many cases, akin to a group think assault on anyone that the crowd didn't like -- a 17th century mob armed with pitchforks, tar and torches, was more civil, kindly and independent of thought than some of the people here.
And yes, I admit, that the least civil group by far were the ones opposed to Ms Clinton. It would be silly to say otherwise. The massive group assaults and ridiculously ignorant and childish attacks on not just her, but the personal attacks on her supporters here was nauseating.
And I did and still do acknowledge that.
We have almost zero bench. There are states where we wander in the wilderness with little to nothing in the way of the future. We lose states that for some odd reason we can't seem to get our act together in being competitive. What has the national party been doing since 2010, when we got destroyed? What did the national party, the geniuses in DC, in the DNC, in the DSCC, the DCCC do while we were sinking further and further?
If they're so damned smart, why weren't they on top of this? Where was their strategy?
But, to somehow claim that the sad state of the Democratic Party, both in DC and throughout the country in local elections rests at the feet on any one person or group is ridiculous.
This has been a 30 Year slide. Not a 16, as you would have people believe. We lost senate races in Florida, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania we should have won. We lost in Ohio because some genius thought running former Governor Ted Strickland who was viewed by many in Ohio as a terrible governor was the solution. That died pretty damned fast.
He won 37% of the vote and a whopping 4 counties. 4. But, I'm certain that's the fault of the left.
It's a lot of people's fault. It starts at the top and works it way all the way through to the US Senate and House, the state parties, the local parties, etc. It's fair to lay some of the blame on the left. It's fair to lay some of the blame on people like Manchin. It's fair to blame union leaders. It's fair to blame the party apparatus. To blame people like Joe Lieberman, Bill Clinton, DU, you, me, whatever.
Forgive me, if my previous rantings seemed crude and mean spirited. But...
'Not being Donald Trump' is not an effective long term strategy.
According to several stories I've seen out of Maine, Sen Collins is getting a lot of pats on the back from her constituents for opposing the death bill in the Senate. She isn't Donald Trump.
Lisa Murkowski isn't Donald Trump. Neither is Jeff Flake, or Ben Sasse, or the rest of them. All they have to do is to separate themselves from Trump on enough issues to appease their voters, get re-elected and be Republicans; voting for corporate tax cuts, more money for the military, privatizing everything and so on.
The 'solution' I see in many places are similar to yours, "It's someone's fault, just not mine."
My solution, try the LBJ approach. Get up, get out and talk to people. Listen to what they have to say and find places we bridge with them (specifically the moderates, fence sitters and disillusioned).
You're not going to convince his rabid following, or those who can only see the world as 'The Democrats are evil and will force me into gay marriage.'
Don't try. But, we lost counties like Elliott County, a Democratic stronghold in the mountains of eastern Kentucky that has voted Democratic for over 100 years and it wasn't because of the left, or criticism of the party from the left that lost us that county; a county that voted Democratic for every other office (even the openly gay Democratic nominee for Senate) in the state
To illustrate my point:
1988: Governors 26 D 24 R US Senate 55 D 45 R House US House 267:167 (We even gained 7)
1990: Governors 28 D 21 R 1 I 56 D 44 R 258:176
1992: Governors 30 D 19 R 1 I 57 D 43 R 204:230
1994: Governors 19 D 29 R 2 I 48 D 52 R 226:207
1996: Governors 18 D 31 R 1 I 45 D 55 R 223;211
1998: Governors 17 D 31 R 2 I (All Hail, Jesse 'The Conspiracy Nut' Ventura was elected in Minnesota)
I've said my piece. Flame away good people. Disparage, disagree, whatever. It doesn't change the dynamics of the past three decades.