General Discussion

George II

(67,782 posts)

171. It's not a moving to the right, in fact 2014 and 2016 were moves to the left....

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 02:25 PM

Jul 2017

How'd THAT work out?

Remember, in most elections at all levels there is a Democrat and a republican running for the same office. Some people act as though the Democratic Party and candidate is operating in a vacuum all by itself, totally unaffected by the opponent.

In each of those elections, the positions of the candidates change over the course of the campaign, based partly on listening to the constituency (hopefully) and partly on the position of the opponent. That's a campaign. It's not establishing a fixed set of policies at the outset of a campaign (or for some 30-40 years earlier) and refusing to shift as the campaign progresses.

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To some, acting to push the Democratic Party further to the left is "hijacking the party" [View all] virtualobserver Jul 2017 OP

If you are advocating voting for Green, starting your own party or not NYResister Jul 2017 #1

I am not advocating any of those things virtualobserver Jul 2017 #3

That's entirely clear from your post... I get your point. InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2017 #34

You nailed it and it's all about rainy Jul 2017 #40

Yes, you got that right... it's ALL about the money... InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2017 #41

And it comes down the the choice of which money trail is more philanthropic lambchopp59 Jul 2017 #152

Our Party has some of the same problems the Republicans do. Dustlawyer Jul 2017 #59

We got one problem the Repukes don't... they're in control of every level of the Federal Goverment InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2017 #86

I worry the dems will never have influence again, the electoral process is so compromised. -nt CrispyQ Jul 2017 #124

I think many Sanders progressives are reactionaries who just keep delisen Jul 2017 #141

It's simple, check out any Bernie Sanders speech... it's all right there, plain as day. InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2017 #174

Look at you, just two weeks old today ! KTM Jul 2017 #116

Why are you making this about me, personally? NYResister Jul 2017 #130

Well, many of us have been here for 15 years KTM Jul 2017 #134

And you are correct about that. It is clearly stated in the TOS. Everyone should know this whether lunamagica Jul 2017 #156

Thank you. NYResister Jul 2017 #162

... lunamagica Jul 2017 #163

No, s/he is not deciding who gets tossesd out. S/he is reffering to the TOS, which clearly states lunamagica Jul 2017 #155

Bullshit. KTM Jul 2017 #167

Furthermore, where the hell do you think you are pushing NYResister Jul 2017 #2

ending the war on drugs, pushing for single payer, reversing the privatization of prisons virtualobserver Jul 2017 #5

Good start! InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2017 #35

the Green party does not support liberal policies JI7 Jul 2017 #4

I'm not here to advocate voting Green... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #6

my point is their goal is to hurt democrats and help republicans to win JI7 Jul 2017 #7

I have never met a member of the Green Party who felt that way. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #8

the fucking country isn't liberal enough. they keep going after the only party which does anything JI7 Jul 2017 #9

the country grows more liberal with liberal leadership virtualobserver Jul 2017 #10

they do . but you still need to win. look at the attacks on pelosi who IS a liberal from those who JI7 Jul 2017 #13

the attacks on Pelosi are easily countered by simply stating her record.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #16

if they don't knwo about pelosi's background then they don't care for actually getting liberal JI7 Jul 2017 #19

it is our job to persuade. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #20

Really? Because "Our Revolution" is supporting a candidate who is primarying Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #38

That is Democracy. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #52

Democracy...IE enabliing the GOP and wasting valuable resources on fighting Democrats instead of the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #55

No it doesn't. That is completely not true. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #31

Democrats have lost the ability to persuade because they are addicted to poll testing ideas..... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #43

I consider this post to be a talking point...and kind of meaningless. What are you saying? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #63

leadership involves presenting ideas that are not yet supported by the population.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #71

Oh so we run on unpopular ideas that will cause us to lose elections and give the GOP endless Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #84

The Green Party nominated Stein, NYResister Jul 2017 #11

The "we don't want your votes" strategy.....Sounds like a winner. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #12

we aren't going to win the votes of people who find Trump appealing JI7 Jul 2017 #14

no Greens that I know find Trump anything other than disgusting. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #18

How did these Greens feel about HRC? About Booker or Pelosi? Be honest please.... bettyellen Jul 2017 #131

"We won't give you our votes, we would rather see fascist Trump win"...not Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #32

you proved the point of my post virtualobserver Jul 2017 #61

The ideas, I mostly agree with. What I don't like is the attacks on the Democratic Party. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #62

The Green Party is not liberal and they don't give a damn about the environment. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #27

I have never seen any evidence to support what you are saying virtualobserver Jul 2017 #42

You must admit though that Greens go after Dems with their rhetoric way more than... brush Jul 2017 #47

they are out there.....they only get coverage in close elections when they are condemned.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #50

They've been out there for a while. Why no successful candidates locally, statewide... brush Jul 2017 #53

our system crushes third parties virtualobserver Jul 2017 #60

So no work in the years between presidential cycles to build a grassroots... brush Jul 2017 #64

Ross Perot was successful for the same reason Trump was...the Billionaire advantage. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #66

You keep not answering what's up with the Greens non-success. Diversionary statements... brush Jul 2017 #69

I gave you a billion reasons....you just didn't get it. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #81

Guess you're right. I still don't get why we never hear of the Greens but during... brush Jul 2017 #91

3rd parties are dismissed by the MSM....just as Bernie was initially virtualobserver Jul 2017 #93

They preferred a Republican over a Democrat in 16. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #87

"I'm not advocating voting Green...but they're amazing and you should suck up to them more!" nt Maven Jul 2017 #138

You are 100% correct TXCritter Jul 2017 #15

I hope not. I would just like to see Democrats welcome a wider range of views. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #17

Sorry what you describe is not 'welcoming' we already do that, but to turn the party over to your Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #33

the strategy that Democrats have been following has been losing seats for years.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #44

Broaden your views. Repugs have learned effective ways to cheat. That's why they win. brush Jul 2017 #49

Republicans have been accused of cheating in many elections since 2000. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #58

Really because I hear it everyday on MSNBC...and after the Green spoilers whom I take it Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #67

talk is cheap....what did Democrats DO about it. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #75

Some of us do. I've posted variations of the following here lately brush Jul 2017 #73

I couldn't agree more virtualobserver Jul 2017 #100

Yes. Instead of all those other TV ads that seem to be just a way to throw away money. brush Jul 2017 #102

So we should turn the party over to those who helped us lose? Ah no, Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #57

You keep using that word... KTM Jul 2017 #117

Oh no...you misunderstand... I am a liberal and have a liberal voice in fact...you can have voice Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #120

It is not magic...and will work. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #65

Dems lost seats because they voted for universal healthcare and to save the economy emulatorloo Jul 2017 #132

Yes they did. I am proud to be a Democrat...And Greens and other third party riffraff like our Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #150

What do you mean by the establishment? murielm99 Jul 2017 #21

Great question, and plus 1000 n/t emulatorloo Jul 2017 #133

There is no such thing as 'establishment' Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #28

Your third paragraph makes little sense. murielm99 Jul 2017 #22

+1000 OKNancy Jul 2017 #23

I have been noticing that a lot these days. murielm99 Jul 2017 #24

"There is nothing revolutionary about being an asshole" betsuni Jul 2017 #25

This is true...such folks refuse to accept to this day that there were not enough votes for Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #30

naive is losing 1000 seats at the state and national level, then chanting "more of the same". virtualobserver Jul 2017 #46

no it's running people who don't fit in with the politics of the people living there, and OKNancy Jul 2017 #54

Yeah... those you want to turn over the party to helped in that endeavor as well. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #72

Our Revolution now headed by the lovely Nina Turner refused a person because although Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #29

These people are dictators and they decide for everyone using a purity test. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #36

I am saying it straight out virtualobserver Jul 2017 #48

That is not true at all. Create change the right way...using the grassroots method and stop trying Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #76

I saw how that worked out in 2016 virtualobserver Jul 2017 #79

No you didn't...you saw a shrill minority who couldn't accept a loss Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #94

so many enemies......so little taking of responsibility..... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #96

How about "our revolution" takes responsibility? How about the Greens? Thousands will die Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #110

asking people to vote for you does not make you responsible for Trump virtualobserver Jul 2017 #111

Saying Trump is the better candidate does make you responsible. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #122

You understand that Greens are not supported here and cannot ask for votes right? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #123

condemned and accused by who? NYResister Jul 2017 #146

What makes People think they have the right to dictate to the Democratic Party? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #26

What is this blackmail you keep speaking of? aikoaiko Jul 2017 #104

The threat which has been posted here and elsewhere that if the 'alt left'... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #109

That's not blackmail and we're tell people to eff off aikoaiko Jul 2017 #114

It is blackmail to threaten others if you don't get your way. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #121

Pretty much. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #37

Those who threaten to take their ball and go home call themselves 'progressive' (but are they?) Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #39

With hundreds of millions of citizens no doubt there are many thousands who fit that dscribption Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #51

Sorry...they are interested in purity and purging and engaging in blackmail as well. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #56

If the center right Democratic Party establishment Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #68

You are talking about me, my (hopefully) friend. Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #74

Do you not hear yourself? KTM Jul 2017 #125

That is correct. They kicked someone out for voting for the Democratic nominee. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #147

I don't recall anyone saying that Our Revolution was horrible bad people. What I Squinch Jul 2017 #45

You have to step back and look at the pattern. It's not just current talk about Our Revolution Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #70

"Our Revolution' is comprised mostly of Sen. Sanders's supporters who refused to vote for Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #78

"Our Revolution" is an off shoot political organization Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #83

Here's what I am thinking as I read your post: "Hillary, Bernie, Bernie, Hillary - Squinch Jul 2017 #89

Me too: "That is part of why these Bernie threads, and they are always about Bernie, piss me off..." Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #126

Is it incessant? I haven't seen a JPR thread in a while. Our Revolution just did something Squinch Jul 2017 #139

Yes, JPR threads happen, a little less frequently. But it's July, the election was over 8 months ago Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #149

Honestly, this is idiotic. You are living in the last world. That world is over. There is a Squinch Jul 2017 #153

You are talking to a projection, not me. I chair our Democratic Committee. Bernie never comes up Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #154

I am not being unfair. Those groups that attack Democrats are not helping the progressive cause. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #98

When I keyword trashed "Bernie" and "Sanders, it filtered out about 98% of the Squinch Jul 2017 #80

A well written post, and I completely agree. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #99

What's the point of seeming undivided when we are actually divided? Kentonio Jul 2017 #118

And as I said, trashing keywords "Bernie" and "Sanders" were all it took to Squinch Jul 2017 #137

I don't disagree at all about the larger enemy of course Kentonio Jul 2017 #140

Throughout this discussion, I keep running up against posters who say, "Oh, yeah. I totally Squinch Jul 2017 #143

Whereas from my perspective.. Kentonio Jul 2017 #144

Oh, jeez. I despair. Have a nice day. Squinch Jul 2017 #145

Despair? Yeah we're familiar with that, welcome to the club. Kentonio Jul 2017 #169

I am not divided....and there will never be healing between me and those who helped Trump Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #151

Gotta get ready for work. Hipefully can respond better later Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #119

So basically, you are saying that the Bernie supporters are Squinch Jul 2017 #142

GREAT post. KTM Jul 2017 #128

They refused to allow a person who voted for Hillary Clinton in the general to join. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #77

Yes. That new development is obviously their death knell. It was monumentally Squinch Jul 2017 #82

I was a donor...and I immediately stopped. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #101

I agree, and some of them seem to need a primer on whathehell Jul 2017 #85

The problem ISN'T different views within the party, and the respective groups fighting still_one Jul 2017 #88

So Democrats should "fall in line" mcar Jul 2017 #90

no, just stop trashing those who generally agree on most positions virtualobserver Jul 2017 #92

Seems to me it's the Our Revolution types who are doing that mcar Jul 2017 #95

they are fighting against the Republicans in their own way. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #97

That does not hurt Republicans and can't be considered a fighting Republicans because they hurt Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #105

it won't hurt Pelosi virtualobserver Jul 2017 #106

It could...it certainly doesn't help our efforts to fight Trump. We need to fight Trump...not each Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #108

K&R YCHDT Jul 2017 #107

What way is that? mcar Jul 2017 #112

But they are ones trashing the Democratic Party..that is not about ideas. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #103

I think the Democratic party is just fine as it is cyclonefence Jul 2017 #113

I don't see it that way... Adrahil Jul 2017 #115

There are more voters in the central than the left, with a good platform and perhaps disgruntled Thinkingabout Jul 2017 #127

Let's look at this logically: George II Jul 2017 #129

You make several assumptions there. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #157

I was responding to the useful simplification/generalization that the Democratic Party won't win.... George II Jul 2017 #158

How's that moving to the right been working out so far? WoonTars Jul 2017 #170

It's not a moving to the right, in fact 2014 and 2016 were moves to the left.... George II Jul 2017 #171

Riiiiiiight.... WoonTars Jul 2017 #172

No candidate - Democratic, Republican, Independent - can accept a single penny from Corporations... George II Jul 2017 #173

What acts can "push" the party to the left? treestar Jul 2017 #135

Running primaries against Democrats who are more conservative than their constituents. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #159

that's because they think they won't win in that district treestar Jul 2017 #160

As you say, it should be up to the people in that district. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #161

K&R from me mvd Jul 2017 #136

Those further left creeksneakers2 Jul 2017 #148

You can see from your responses TXCritter Jul 2017 #164

Truly left wing billionaires are hard to find virtualobserver Jul 2017 #165

That's because they give away their money too fast TXCritter Jul 2017 #166

We are not obligated to keep other Democrats comfortable with our demands... Orsino Jul 2017 #168