General Discussion

politicat

(9,810 posts)

86. Gothardism. Which is worse.

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 01:45 PM

Jul 2017

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/05/23/gothards-ati-and-the-duggar-familys-secrets/

Excerpt:
The Duggar family’s involvement in Bill Gothard’s Advanced Training Institute (ATI) homeschool program adds complexities to this story which are unknown to the average person. The underlying principles and beliefs the Duggars have built their lives around actually help groom and shame victims, help hide grievous abuse, and even keep offenders from receiving needed help.

The lessons learned from birth in homes like the Duggar’s strip children of their voice and agency. Starting with blanket training babies and toddlers understand quickly that disappointing a parent leads to swift and painful consequences. As they grow, it becomes clear that simply doing what is expected is not enough. It must be done instantly and cheerfully. Children are even forbidden to seek out the logic behind the request, as kids are prone to do, because that is seen a making excuses or delaying obedience. The consequences of failing to meet these expectations are severe. Gothard and the Duggars believe that spankings are necessary to save a child from their inborn nature to do evil, and these are not just any spankings. The Duggars endorse the child abuse methods taught by the Pearls. Growing up in an environment of fear, where questions are seen as rebellious, eventually makes children unable to speak up for themselves. They become unable to trust their own judgment of what is right and wrong. These children are the perfect targets for abuse; they do not know how to advocate for themselves.
/excerpt

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/05/gothards-sex-rules-marital-consent-whats-that.html

(I'm not excerpting this one because it's really important to take it as a whole.)

And from a former fundamentalist (and spouse) who grew up in Gothardism and is now an attorney.
http://fiddlrts.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-duggars-how-fundamentalisms.html

Gothardism makes the most fundamentalist Mormons look easygoing.

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Christian retailer Hobby Lobby stole Middle East history to make a bible museum in Washington DC [View all] spanone Jul 2017 OP

$800 million...They were fined $3 million. DK504 Jul 2017 #1

My guess is zero. Initech Jul 2017 #3

But if you shoplifted a paintbrush from them, they'd push for you to do hard time Orrex Jul 2017 #7

Yeah that is very true. Initech Jul 2017 #16

They've already gotten theirs--and yours and mine and everyone else's. nt tblue37 Jul 2017 #24

the last time I set foot in a hobby lobby (YEARS ago now) I noticed a sign posted in the niyad Jul 2017 #25

Yes, they're a model of Christian compassion Orrex Jul 2017 #41

I was appalled when I first learned of their faux-xian and anti0woman nonsense, long before the niyad Jul 2017 #42

Wouldn't that be true of any retailer who takes loss prevention measures? Marengo Jul 2017 #44

right. because any retailer can follow you from the store, search your car, etc., niyad Jul 2017 #46

Depending on store policy and jurisdictional allowances, I believe they can at least follow... Marengo Jul 2017 #66

perhaps you should read the post niyad Jul 2017 #67

By the restrooms it is. I've seen this before in other retailers, doesn't strike my as especially Marengo Jul 2017 #68

then perhaps you are not paying attention. such a thing should be posted at the front of niyad Jul 2017 #75

I've seen similar signage in other stores posted by the restrooms, often located in hallways... Marengo Jul 2017 #76

YES.. what part of this do you not understand? tell me why such statements are hidden, niyad Jul 2017 #77

What I don't understand is your assumption they are hiding something. What do you think they... Marengo Jul 2017 #78

it was clearly stated. I cannot help it if you refuse to see it. niyad Jul 2017 #79

Isn't ANY store that implements ANY loss prevention measure assuming at least some of it's... Marengo Jul 2017 #80

reading comprehension is your friend. niyad Jul 2017 #82

That isn't an answer to what I asked. At any rate, from what I understand there are legitimate... Marengo Jul 2017 #85

The point is even though they are very aggresive in stopping theft........... Old Vet Jul 2017 #83

Was this known years ago when the incident described by that poster occurred? Marengo Jul 2017 #84

Why is that even relevant? kcr Jul 2017 #90

Uh, it's relevant to my discussion with that poster about the incident which occurred YEARS ago. Marengo Jul 2017 #91

The actual amount they paid for the stolen artifacts was $1.6 million. herding cats Jul 2017 #18

Hey, they only made $3.7 billion in 2015. progressoid Jul 2017 #43

Arts/craft sales alone? Can't be. Missn-Hitch Jul 2017 #47

They have over 600 stores. jmowreader Jul 2017 #53

I look at it this way after reading the article. LiberalFighter Jul 2017 #58

Hey Steve, you should try actually reading that Bible sometime. Initech Jul 2017 #2

Christians only read the Bible verses that their preachers tell them to FiveGoodMen Jul 2017 #28

But it doesn't say, "Thou shalt not purchase stolen goods". Mariana Jul 2017 #32

It's a get out of jail free card for the protected class. Initech Jul 2017 #36

So... They were smuggling stolen artifacts? DetlefK Jul 2017 #4

Uh huh! atreides1 Jul 2017 #5

They were warned in 2010 by an expert in importing cultural artifacts Chiyo-chichi Jul 2017 #15

Doesn't his bible say something about not stealing? Solly Mack Jul 2017 #6

Hell, you're not even supposed to covet what another has. sinkingfeeling Jul 2017 #45

Yep. Solly Mack Jul 2017 #54

Western and Israeli plunderers have been looting the Middle East for malaise Jul 2017 #8

TV aired video of "Iraqis" ransacking museums after Shock and Awe..so stupid Americans would believe lostnfound Jul 2017 #11

I remember when it was going on malaise Jul 2017 #14

I remember quite clearly the rings of armed US Soldiers guarding... Raster Jul 2017 #29

Maybe it was malaise Jul 2017 #62

Orchestrated, I agree. lostnfound Jul 2017 #71

Don't forget the best part gratuitous Jul 2017 #9

Well, with a tax cut they can add a refreshment stand in the museum. Missn-Hitch Jul 2017 #49

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!! nikibatts Jul 2017 #10

oh no no no, it's OK to steal if the plunder is for your Bible museum. Raster Jul 2017 #31

But then was it wood v Burrell contraception argument TEB Jul 2017 #12

:-) WinkyDink Jul 2017 #13

Check out the 'GREEN COLLECTION' over 40,000 antiquities and here's mr. green's excuse.... spanone Jul 2017 #17

Mr. Green is a thief AND a liar. SunSeeker Jul 2017 #27

So, I guess it's the in thing to be 'new' at something and therefore, sinkingfeeling Jul 2017 #48

YES, where have i heard that before????? hmmmmm spanone Jul 2017 #65

The provenance of every item in that museum should be examined closely. I doubt this instance suffragette Jul 2017 #74

I will never shop at Hobby Lobby Gothmog Jul 2017 #19

After that whole lawsuit over birth control, and finding out they are Mormon, Coventina Jul 2017 #22

No no no NOT mormon... worse.... Raster Jul 2017 #34

Gothardism. Which is worse. politicat Jul 2017 #86

Yes, I stand corrected. Coventina Jul 2017 #88

They started translating those cuneiform tablets, and were disappointed. MineralMan Jul 2017 #20

A small quibble on my part: They are MORMON. I don't think they qualify as Christian Coventina Jul 2017 #21

The are NOT Mormon... Raster Jul 2017 #35

OK, my bad. I was told they were Mormon. Coventina Jul 2017 #37

Nope. They are most definitely anti-LGBTQ. Raster Jul 2017 #39

Oh the irony. SunSeeker Jul 2017 #23

Things like this is the reason my son thinks all claims of Christianity are bogus. lark Jul 2017 #26

The definition of "Christian" Mariana Jul 2017 #38

If they don't follow God's teachings, are they really Christian? lark Jul 2017 #40

Yeah... in fact.... jberryhill Jul 2017 #56

Being forgiven is... 3catwoman3 Jul 2017 #61

Did they? jberryhill Jul 2017 #70

Does God judge people by their actions? Mariana Jul 2017 #64

Modern-day Pharisees cagefreesoylentgreen Jul 2017 #72

You know, the Pharisees started out as good guys. Mariana Jul 2017 #73

but, but bora13 Jul 2017 #30

Jesus loves you. Send a check! bucolic_frolic Jul 2017 #33

I am confused - Ray Bruns Jul 2017 #50

That stuff only applies to other sinners. progressoid Jul 2017 #60

Hobby Lobby aka Crusader Pigs DinahMoeHum Jul 2017 #51

From the US DOJ: avebury Jul 2017 #52

Hobby Lobby's Hobby: Robbing Hammurabi jberryhill Jul 2017 #55

Very, very nice! NT politicat Jul 2017 #87

Christianity honored, enhanced, exemplified, glorified and displayed by theft and fraud. keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #57

Did they not think anyone would notice them laying around their Bible Museum in the heart ToxMarz Jul 2017 #59

hypocrisy is a core republican "value" Achilleaze Jul 2017 #63

Considering that the ancient Sumerian cylinders describe our creators as the Annunaki, these WinkyDink Jul 2017 #69

Now, if they had a display celebrating Ninkasi, I might visit this "museum" . . . hatrack Jul 2017 #81

But...but...that's SCIENCE! WinkyDink Jul 2017 #92

Dirty rotten scoundrels. nt oasis Jul 2017 #89