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Nevernose

(13,081 posts)

15. DoBois' "Black Reconstruction"

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 01:06 PM

Jul 2017

He (and many other civil rights leaders) might argue that you're creating an artificial distinction and that economic justice is merely a subset of social justice.

It's all the same thing, and advocating for one does not take away from another (unless one is trying to woo racist white Trump voters, in which case one is stupid).

Racial justice will inevitably lead to economic justice, but the inverse should also be true: strong unions and a strong middle class have done a good deal for the marginalized among us, and "really fucking poor" is yet another marginalized group.

I guess what maybe needs to be taken into account are the motives of those seeking economic justice; I know my Twitter feed and real life social circles are filled with PoC-Marxists, people who draw little distinction between the issues. In the rest of the world, socialist and quasi-Marxist movements are alive and well, and driven entirely by people of color.

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What good is economic justice, if I don't have the social justice to access and keep it? [View all] sheshe2 Jul 2017 OP

Exactly. Economic Justice that cannot be accessed MineralMan Jul 2017 #1

+ 1000 sheshe2 Jul 2017 #2

+++++ "Economic justice does not necessarily include social justice."+++++ I think some are YCHDT Jul 2017 #9

Yes. Part of the flaw of the Sanders campaign was focusing MineralMan Jul 2017 #10

Post removed Post removed Jul 2017 #13

He minimized the importance of social justice, in favor of MineralMan Jul 2017 #14

No, he didn't. But you were certainly shouting that meme from the rooftops. kristopher Jul 2017 #16

Yes he did ... even afterwards mentioning we shouldn't be so PC or some shit YCHDT Jul 2017 #20

stop rewriting history, I saw and heard it all myself. JHan Jul 2017 #24

Not only are you refightig the primary, but you're rewriting history bettyellen Jul 2017 #29

Nobody shouts it as loudly as Sanders himself (note present tense). We all saw what we saw... Hekate Jul 2017 #55

No he didn't. It was a lie, and one that probably helped Trump win. nt redgreenandblue Jul 2017 #108

Not probably melman Jul 2017 #109

He wasn't the candidate ...except for endorsing and supporitng Sen. Clinton his opinions Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #111

It was sad and frustrating to see that then mcar Jul 2017 #46

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2017 #129

I see. Thanks, and welcome to DU. MineralMan Jul 2017 #130

Well, I guess it's not to be... MineralMan Jul 2017 #137

IMHO that is incorrect, they are bound together. nt fleabiscuit Jul 2017 #39

One can be had without the other, ask a rich POC YCHDT Jul 2017 #105

To assume that anyone who earns a good living denied someone else economic justice is ridiculous. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #112

I'm not excluding other social minorities just I know PoC who are well off and it doesn't ... YCHDT Jul 2017 #118

We agree then. We need both. I misunderstood your post. Sorry. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #119

Rec rec rec rec rec lunasun Jul 2017 #3

Handing control over the economy to the 1% is the best route to racial equality. kristopher Jul 2017 #4

Kindly point out where in my OP that I suggest... sheshe2 Jul 2017 #6

Having unequal access to the economy ... IS ... handing it over to the 1% just in another name YCHDT Jul 2017 #7

Unequal access is often caused by bigotry. Social justice issues Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #113

Yes, we need both but not economic equality first ... that's illogical given reality of PoC who YCHDT Jul 2017 #116

I agree with you...Roosevelt as I pointed out did much to lower income inequality but it was Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #120

Japanese internment is an excellent example YCHDT Jul 2017 #134

It really is...they had pretty decent assets but lost them all due to bigotry....and many never got Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #135

So true !!! If the economic equality can just be confiscated what good is it !?!? YCHDT Jul 2017 #5

Or the re-enslavement of human beings... sheshe2 Jul 2017 #12

Very good example YCHDT Jul 2017 #21

If you have "equality" but you're dirt poor, what good is THAT? whathehell Jul 2017 #31

You have to have both...without social equality, you won't share in economic equality...for example Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #114

K&R smirkymonkey Jul 2017 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author NCTraveler Jul 2017 #11

DoBois' "Black Reconstruction" Nevernose Jul 2017 #15

Economic and social justice go hand in hand, but are clearly not the same. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #18

In the days of Reconstruction, you did not have the means whathehell Jul 2017 #40

We learned the contrary during the protests brer cat Jul 2017 #64

Our past. Our Present. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #83

++++++++++++++++ well said JHan Jul 2017 #84

I'm not pretending.anything.. whathehell Jul 2017 #90

Try reading: Slavery By Another Name sheshe2 Jul 2017 #68

the killer is.. JHan Jul 2017 #85

I didn't realize reason.com was Libertarian... sheshe2 Jul 2017 #86

Yes... JHan Jul 2017 #87

I don't think anyone, whathehell Jul 2017 #88

Yet no one here is saying not to pursue economic justice. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #92

And again, no one here is saying not to pursue social justice.. whathehell Jul 2017 #94

Yet it is not the one at the forefront. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #96

I'm not sure what makes you say that.. whathehell Jul 2017 #99

This thread melman Jul 2017 #110

Yeah..I think you may be right.. whathehell Jul 2017 #133

some here have opined that economic justice is more important than social justice which Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #115

Oh, well no on HERE says it, so no big deal /sarcasm kcr Jul 2017 #121

No one I know or know OF....How's that? whathehell Jul 2017 #131

Read this thread...there are post that reflect the view that economics trump social justice right Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #136

'Right-to-Work' fleabiscuit Jul 2017 #107

"Right to work"...What about it? whathehell Jul 2017 #132

No, this is happening RIGHT NOW today !!! There's no equality in us justice system NOT AT ALL YCHDT Jul 2017 #117

But that's what I'm trying to say: Nevernose Jul 2017 #72

Quote: sheshe2 Jul 2017 #102

The inverse is 100% ... NOT ... true at all empirically or by simple logic. One can be a billionaire YCHDT Jul 2017 #19

Tell that to Susan Sarandon and Cornel West Nevernose Jul 2017 #74

Sheshe thank you for this article. irisblue Jul 2017 #17

K&R Jamaal510 Jul 2017 #22

Thank you Jamaal. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #23

"Slavery by Another Name" mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2017 #25

I am over half way through it now. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #30

Excellent Question & OP Me. Jul 2017 #26

Well said me. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #33

Yes yes yes yes! and... JHan Jul 2017 #27

Yes, JHan... sheshe2 Jul 2017 #35

Plus Me. Jul 2017 #41

Let alone get affordable heath care for them thanks to the GOP's sheshe2 Jul 2017 #61

Precisely Me. Jul 2017 #62

K&R mcar Jul 2017 #28

There is no economic justice without social justice, so the question is a contradiction. Lucky Luciano Jul 2017 #32

Not tru for every person. There can be econ justice for some. While social justice lags and keeps boston bean Jul 2017 #91

If others are being kept down, then I doubt there is economic justice. Lucky Luciano Jul 2017 #98

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2017 #34

Any further thoughts, scerderbler? nt Hekate Jul 2017 #43

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2017 #44

And how is this "onward to the past," scerbderbler? Hekate Jul 2017 #56

???? sheshe2 Jul 2017 #70

Heh Hekate Jul 2017 #80

Ya sheshe2 Jul 2017 #82

Oh, is there something that explains everything then, Hortensis Jul 2017 #58

This post explains everything we need to know about YOU. johnp3907 Jul 2017 #65

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2017 #104

Truth. nt LexVegas Jul 2017 #36

K&R sheshe nt Quayblue Jul 2017 #37

K&R DesertRat Jul 2017 #38

KnR, sheshe. Social justice is not embedded in economic justice, nor does it follow from it... Hekate Jul 2017 #42

it doesn't follow from it directly, but you can't pretend that in a world where people are JCanete Jul 2017 #47

Why is it so hard to accept that we need the social justice message to lead the... Hekate Jul 2017 #52

we agree they go hand and hand. The reason you don't solely lead with the social justice is JCanete Jul 2017 #63

You have it backwards. You can't pretend that economic equality will erase social injustice. kcr Jul 2017 #124

I didn't say it would, but I did suggest that fighting back in this class war, if we use the right JCanete Jul 2017 #127

That we do Hekate sheshe2 Jul 2017 #75

That bit about getting patted on the head and being told to wait our turn got reeeeeeeal old... Hekate Jul 2017 #78

Sadly some still live decades ago. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #97

no good. Can you though, present a scenario where you get social justice without addressing JCanete Jul 2017 #45

the way you show people... JHan Jul 2017 #48

but who is doing this? The closest thing you have to suggesting that this is a liberal tendency is JCanete Jul 2017 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author JHan Jul 2017 #54

reposting my reply: JHan Jul 2017 #57

pointing out that they are thinking about it wrong is not the problem, nor should you have JCanete Jul 2017 #67

so .... JHan Jul 2017 #69

that I dont know who its addressing here? Its a suggestion that some of us, and I'm not sure who, JCanete Jul 2017 #71

really? JHan Jul 2017 #73

It is a conservative meme, that I again, double down on, is not being borrowed by Sanders JCanete Jul 2017 #76

you do realise.. JHan Jul 2017 #77

when I said who is doing this, who were you referencing? I got the impression you were referencing JCanete Jul 2017 #79

I didn't need Sanders to tell me the importance of these issues.. JHan Jul 2017 #81

K&R Solly Mack Jul 2017 #49

Why do conservatives always insist that it's either/or? Warpy Jul 2017 #51

As you can see from this thread, Warpy, it's not just conservatives nt Hekate Jul 2017 #53

WHY THE FUCK CAN'T WE HAVE BOTH?!?!? Lunabell Jul 2017 #59

We could for ALL if social justice comes first. boston bean Jul 2017 #89

Right I don't see how this simplicity is so missed!!!! YCHDT Jul 2017 #106

The nation with the courage to secure one will also be securing the other. Orsino Jul 2017 #60

Excellent OP, sheshe. brer cat Jul 2017 #66

Justice doesn't exist without social justice ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #93

"Justice doesn't exist without social justice" sheshe2 Jul 2017 #95

Exactly! ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #100

I love your wisdom, ism. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #103

It is very clear and simple Sheshe2. I have to believe those that still cannot grasp what is being pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #101

Your post is spot on. sheshe2 Jul 2017 #123

K&R NYResister Jul 2017 #122

Divisive post. ZX86 Jul 2017 #125

Take economic justice off the table, and you make elections exclusively about social justice. killbotfactory Jul 2017 #126

I can see it now. ZX86 Jul 2017 #128

yeah...those pesky human rights issue...just get in the way...sarcasm. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #138