General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

133. But progress isn't made when Dems are elected by saying "I'm no liberal"

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 07:59 PM

Jul 2017

If they say that, they spend most of their time blocking progress and demanding that bills be watered-down to nothing.

And it never serves any greater progressive good when the party leadership aggressively pushes for the least-progressive candidate we can find in a district.

There have to be SOME limits as to how far we can tolerate our candidates going to the right. We can't ever go back to the idea that it's enough to settle for somebody just being pro-choice.

BTW...we came out of Philly twelve points ahead...the biggest lead we had in the whole campaign. The booing you are still holding a grudge about(booing that wouldn't have happened if we had only taken the progressive position and said "no TPP" in the platform(or even if our nominee had said it that night in the acceptance speech)made no difference.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

236 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Meet Bernie Sanders' 2018 challenger [View all] DonViejo Jul 2017 OP

Interesting. What it comes down to is would you rather have Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #1

WOW Me. Jul 2017 #2

I can't imagine he has a prayer of winning, frankly. MineralMan Jul 2017 #3

Me too and he has been voted the most popular Senator. I can understand that too..n/t monmouth4 Jul 2017 #5

Well, my favorite Senator at this time is Al Franken. MineralMan Jul 2017 #7

"most popular".. hmmm. nikibatts Jul 2017 #152

Yeah, Sarah Palin was one of the most popular governors. betsuni Jul 2017 #153

Sanders had the gall to propose raising taxes on the richest people to HALF MiltonBrown Jul 2017 #4

The Dem candidate didn't call THAT divisive so why do you change the subject? bettyellen Jul 2017 #11

If not Bernie's economic policies what about his candidacy was divisive? MiltonBrown Jul 2017 #12

Are you serious? How about when he calls the Dems an absolute failure and fundamentally broken DanTex Jul 2017 #15

I don't have time to follow everything but that rhetoric about failure and such was recent, no? MiltonBrown Jul 2017 #21

No, they call him divisive because he is divisive. DanTex Jul 2017 #25

"Code for he's a socialist"? That's ridiculous, MiltonBrown. Hekate Jul 2017 #40

None of which are worth replacing him with somebody to his right. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #132

The people of Vermont will decide if he is still a good choice for them. ehrnst May 2018 #233

Nope. No problem with socialist solutions and socialist- Hortensis Jul 2017 #117

Not sure I understand your issues here. If Sanders is so radical, and his personality isn't capable JCanete Jul 2017 #160

1. His compelling message that we need to stop Hortensis Jul 2017 #173

I myself distrust elites and the establishment. I feel like it has given me ample reason to do JCanete Jul 2017 #192

JCanete, those who can name good officials who need to be kept Hortensis Jul 2017 #193

and the non-populists here are fairly hostile to those people o the far left, if you haven't noticed JCanete Jul 2017 #209

"Democracy Dismantled: Why the Populist Threat Is Real and Serious" Hortensis Jul 2017 #210

"It would make no sense to find radical anti-semitism on the far left." ehrnst May 2018 #234

Explaining needed change is not divisive Zinner88 Jul 2017 #142

Many of those who call him divisive identify as being "socialists".... George II Jul 2017 #175

I don't want the kind of unity where certain issues are third rails and no party addresses them. JCanete Jul 2017 #50

Well that works both ways. DanTex Jul 2017 #56

That's pragmatic for the party. It isn't pragmatic for the issues, and that's the problem with JCanete Jul 2017 #61

The only way to make any progress on the issues is if the Democratic Party wins votes. DanTex Jul 2017 #86

only when the democratic party is pushing progressive issues, but that does not happen without JCanete Jul 2017 #92

Well than the alt-left can elect Republicans and see how much they enjoy those policies. The Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #154

Or you could be frustrated with the party for not going more populist and capturing these votes. JCanete Jul 2017 #157

I would never be frustrated enough with the Democratic party and vote Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #158

he got what he could OUT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. why is that all we could get from ourselves? JCanete Jul 2017 #159

This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst May 2018 #235

But progress isn't made when Dems are elected by saying "I'm no liberal" Ken Burch Jul 2017 #133

Obama compared himself to moderate Republican and made tons of progress. DanTex Jul 2017 #155

and he also tried to do that with policy. He gave the Republicans no reason at all to make JCanete Jul 2017 #163

I agree with some of your criticisms of Obama. DanTex Jul 2017 #177

Thats a very white straight male POV. ehrnst May 2018 #236

I'm not one of the people SAYING that Dems and Repubs are equally bad-or thinking it. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #166

Unity for unity's sake is bullshit. alarimer Jul 2017 #187

Baiting people into rehashing the primary too? LOL just stop it. THIS bettyellen Jul 2017 #18

The issues that Bernie raised matter to me. MiltonBrown Jul 2017 #23

Even when they're completely off topic? Perhaps you could educate yourself about his divisive state bettyellen Jul 2017 #41

Welcome to DU Hekate Jul 2017 #44

Thanks a lot for the welcome/get out posts! MiltonBrown Jul 2017 #118

Rehashing the primaries is a violation of the TOS that you signed before joining, Milton Hekate Jul 2017 #51

Feel free to have me kicked out then. MiltonBrown Jul 2017 #116

That's certainly not up to me Hekate Jul 2017 #119

I am all for a Democratic representative that truly represents the Democratic Party. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #6

Same here. Blue_true Jul 2017 #34

I am all for a Democratic representative that truly represents Democratic VOTERS Martin Eden Jul 2017 #54

I think Sanders is one of the weaker primary candidates if you were to check past pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #57

How many Democratic candidates were there at the start? Martin Eden Jul 2017 #74

The strongest that was not strong at all. Which is the point. The Democratic base supported pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #93

You don't think Bernie Sanders is anti-establishment -- even compared to HRC? Martin Eden Jul 2017 #96

Sanders is the epitome of establishment. You seriously argue otherwise? pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #98

I already did Martin Eden Jul 2017 #100

He has sat in congress for two and half decades. He is the establishment. pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #102

I have no problem with the "establishment". I do not see it as an insult, like others define. pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #103

I'm a lifetime Democratic voter, and the Senator from Vermont, particularly his opposition to... NNadir Jul 2017 #89

I find our Democrats much more progressive, fact be told. And Liberal which Sanders pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #94

I've never seen a politician with whom I agree on everything. Nobody is perfect. Martin Eden Jul 2017 #95

relevant difference between bashing a sacred cow and criticism of a politician LanternWaste Jul 2017 #231

What don't you like about Sanders' position on climate change? femmedem Jul 2017 #110

Frankly, I'm somewhat out of the Dem mainstream on this one. I believe that Senator Sanders... NNadir Jul 2017 #131

Thank you for the in-depth reply. femmedem Jul 2017 #134

Wow! An open mind!!! I'm not used to seeing those, but I'm grateful that they still exist! NNadir Jul 2017 #190

I will read your links. femmedem Jul 2017 #135

Calling for a nationwide ban on fracking is not supporting it. Zinner88 Jul 2017 #144

I voted for Bernie in the primary before voting for Hillary in Nov because of his stance on fracking femmedem Jul 2017 #149

Yes, and Trump called for a restoration of American manufacturing. NNadir Jul 2017 #191

IF it is energy and fracking you want to talk about... Omaha Steve Jul 2017 #170

France could close up to 17 nuclear reactors: minister Omaha Steve Jul 2017 #184

Kneeling at the altar of a sacred cow prevents providing evidence? LanternWaste Jul 2017 #230

LOL. The fracture in the party created Bernie 2016, not the other way around aikoaiko Jul 2017 #8

I agree. The Wielding Truth Jul 2017 #63

Agreed. Symptom, not cause. GreenPartyVoter Jul 2017 #90

This. 👆 Snackshack Jul 2017 #109

Bingo! nt Quixote1818 Jul 2017 #111

I'd be surprised if Mr. Svitavsky Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #171

The funny thing is he basically seems like a decent liberal. aikoaiko Jul 2017 #172

It's good that Democrats finally provide some feedback to the attacks leveled, R B Garr Jul 2017 #178

There are currently three possibilities that I know of. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author white_wolf Jul 2017 #17

"Vermont deserves better than a self serving celebrity Senator," Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #10

Yea that is a ridiculous statement. Bernie Sanders is neither self-serving or a 'celebrity' Senator. CousinIT Jul 2017 #13

I disagree with you and agree with the Democratic candidate. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #20

I agree with you. The Democratic candidate pointed to a situation where he and a Blue_true Jul 2017 #42

And it appears the primary reason he did not get the at that time mayor's assistance... Foamfollower Jul 2017 #75

I agree completely with the candidate's statement. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #19

Why are you alienating Senator Sanders? Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #26

I keep wondering that myself CousinIT Jul 2017 #30

I really don't get it. white_wolf Jul 2017 #33

We need to keep our allies... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #35

Elections are knock down drag out events. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #78

How can *I* alienate the Senator? Foamfollower Jul 2017 #37

"Why are you alienating Senator Sanders?" pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #38

Since Sanders is an Independent the race will come down to Blue_true Jul 2017 #49

Then Sanders should retire Foamfollower Jul 2017 #148

LMFAO. Agschmid Jul 2017 #55

The DEMOCRATIC candidate is absolutely 100% spot on about the Independent Senator from Vermont. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #73

This Democrat is nothing but a GOP pawn, willing or otherwise. white_wolf Jul 2017 #91

The guy strikes me as a dimwit but I don't think he'll help the GOP Jim Lane Jul 2017 #137

Nope, only Independent candidates do that. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #147

Nope he ain't. Agschmid Jul 2017 #108

+1, he's saying what most people have noticed, R B Garr Jul 2017 #143

Everybody knows what is going on here. m-lekktor Jul 2017 #14

He's also racist, or at least "non-judicious in his insults" Nevernose Jul 2017 #16

Like to see proof that Senator Sanders called Ben Carson an 'oreo'... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #31

Not Sanders, the guy running against him Nevernose Jul 2017 #112

My apologizes, Nevernose... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #124

Good luck. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #22

Insignificant? Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #28

Yes. Few argue against that. Nt NCTraveler Jul 2017 #32

Yes, insignificant. It has been repeatedly asked to list which of Sanders legislative accomplishents lunamagica Jul 2017 #83

Veterans healthcare is not insignificant Zinner88 Jul 2017 #145

Maybe cause you've already made up your mind.. disillusioned73 Jul 2017 #227

I'm glad he is doing this. Divisive behavior and rhetoric deserves push-back. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #24

So Senator Sanders fighting for the people deserves 'push-back'? Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #27

Straw man arguments are unconvincing. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #43

OK, I see you have no valid argument... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #45

My original post speaks for itself. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #48

Good. nt Maven Jul 2017 #29

This candidate is nothing more than a divisive hack. white_wolf Jul 2017 #36

I think it would be a good idea if Bernie Sanders faced some primary opposition. SecularMotion Jul 2017 #39

Although I am a Sanders supporter, you are right... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #46

Thank you. NastyRiffraff Jul 2017 #162

New blood - no. Sanders is the best kind of statesperson we need in all of Congress/Presidency... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #164

There we have to disagree NastyRiffraff Jul 2017 #167

You don't trust Senator Sanders? Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #168

No, I don't. eom NastyRiffraff Jul 2017 #169

This message was self-deleted by its author Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #228

True. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, and what goes around comes around... Hekate Jul 2017 #47

primary opposition is fine. Its good. What will be disturbing is if a shit load of money pours into JCanete Jul 2017 #53

That is exactly what should happen. Sanders is not running as a Democrat stevenleser Jul 2017 #65

what should happen, big corporate donors should do what they always do, and buy democracy? nt JCanete Jul 2017 #66

No, I am specifically referring to the DNC. They should support the Democrat. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #70

but you make a point that somehow I totally missed. You're right, this won't be a primary. JCanete Jul 2017 #68

And those who supported Stein and Nader will complain about it. stevenleser Jul 2017 #69

I don't complain about the challenge itself, but again, who ends up paying for it and the actual JCanete Jul 2017 #71

Based on history, you're probably wrong about the general election. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #138

But this won't be a primary challenge dflprincess Jul 2017 #58

Yes, I contacted the campaign and they said that very thing stevenleser Jul 2017 #59

+27 klook Jul 2017 #97

Hopefully he doesn't increase the GOP's majority with this stupid race. white_wolf Jul 2017 #101

Hypocritcally many of the same ones nodding in agreement with primarying Bernie Jake Stern Jul 2017 #115

Bernie isn't being primaried. We shouldn't primary Democrats. Bernie will have two stevenleser Jul 2017 #125

The really hypocritical thing is the vote records. white_wolf Jul 2017 #136

Bernie should run as a Democrat ...now is the time to join the Dems...we may end up with Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #174

Sanders has won the democratic primary both times he's run for Senate, and likely will again in 2018 fishwax Jul 2017 #139

I don't think Bernie supporters can say that treestar Jul 2017 #150

Just to be clear dflprincess Jul 2017 #165

This is a monumentally bad idea... ms liberty Jul 2017 #52

Not going to happen RhodeIslandOne Jul 2017 #87

Here is a comment from the Svitsvsky campaign to me stevenleser Jul 2017 #60

And a further clarification stevenleser Jul 2017 #62

So Svitsvsky plans to split the vote ... and a Republican wins. Makes little sense to me. At least The Wielding Truth Jul 2017 #72

In VT, Sanders is put on the Democratic ballot in Primaries... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #76

Typically, Sanders chooses to run on the Democratic ballot. SaschaHM Jul 2017 #80

I guess we will see if that is correct. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #81

Just a tiny bit of research... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #82

Your little bit of research seems to have backfired on you. stevenleser Jul 2017 #126

Nope. No 'Backfire'.... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #129

He's challenging Bernie from the right, and there's no good reason for any D in Vermont to do that. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #128

that assumes that Sanders doesn't win the democratic primary, which strikes me as pretty unlikely fishwax Jul 2017 #141

GOOD how can i send Jon Svitavsky some money ? stonecutter357 Jul 2017 #64

I'll post as soon as they have it stevenleser Jul 2017 #67

Launch may be delayed indefinitely Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #196

Have you withdrawn your statement yet or demanded your refund Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #195

what the fuck are you talking about... stonecutter357 Jul 2017 #198

If you had bothered to do a *TINY* bit of research Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #199

Fox and the RWNJ's agree with you.. stonecutter357 Jul 2017 #200

Here. Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #203

and the clintons sell child porn out of a pizza place.......lul.. stonecutter357 Jul 2017 #205

You rang? You do realize that those posts actually exist, right? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #211

No i did not ring ..... stonecutter357 Jul 2017 #213

Actually you did. I'm not Beetlejuice, once is enough. #FactsAreNotFakeNews beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #214

Did that come from facebook also? stonecutter357 Jul 2017 #215

Why don't you check it out? Just click on the highlighted text, it's easy peasy! beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #217

This is absolutely fascinating, isn't it? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #212

He will have a tough time unseating the establishment candidate. nt LexVegas Jul 2017 #77

It's never anti-establishment to challenge a progressive incumbent from the right. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #130

If he is the Democratic nominee, I hope he gets all the requisite funding/support from the DSCC. SaschaHM Jul 2017 #79

I agree with everything he says. I'd vote for him if I could lunamagica Jul 2017 #84

the purpose of DU is to support qualified DEMOCRATS over non-democrats nt msongs Jul 2017 #85

cool...what are this guy's qualifications, in your mind? JCanete Jul 2017 #99

Still waiting for said qualifications... Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #197

I hope if the Dems put forth a really good candidate... 40RatRod Jul 2017 #88

So the Bernie haters will risk losing the seat to an R? Bernie who caucuses 100% w Dems? Arazi Jul 2017 #104

Well, you see everything is Bernie's fault. You know Hillary getting 3 million more votes than Trump Quixote1818 Jul 2017 #107

You really HATE Bernie, don't you Don? Chasstev365 Jul 2017 #105

LOL! This will go nowhere! nt Quixote1818 Jul 2017 #106

All he's saying is "Bernie is bad" Ken Burch Jul 2017 #113

Went to his Facebook page, saw nothing but bile. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #114

He'll be crushed. They love Bernie in VT. I'm there all the time JDC Jul 2017 #120

So does this board have to support the other guy over Sanders? NobodyHere Jul 2017 #121

A Democrat that referred to a prominent African American GOP politician as an 'Oreo cookie disaster' Jake Stern Jul 2017 #123

No, this will be a Democratic primary. It's open season. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #140

oh hell no. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #207

Jon Svitavsky's Facebook post referring to Condoleezza Rice: Jake Stern Jul 2017 #122

He's against ever even trying for single-payer. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #127

Being against decent healthcare is a losing game Zinner88 Jul 2017 #146

Good for... Mike Nelson Jul 2017 #151

Post removed Post removed Jul 2017 #156

I just looked at his Facebook page. He seems to be promoting a Trump-style, negative campaign. Vinca Jul 2017 #161

Svitavsky is racist and homophobic. He opposes many ideas popular with Democrats. DemocraticWing Jul 2017 #176

"Svitavsky is racist and homophobic" musette_sf Jul 2017 #180

Yeah, Svitazkys own words Arazi Jul 2017 #185

My request was for solid facts musette_sf Jul 2017 #186

You aren't seeing the racism and homophobia in this guys own words? Arazi Jul 2017 #188

My request was for solid facts musette_sf Jul 2017 #189

Then consider your request granted. Direct links to his post are easy enough to find. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #194

I don't have popcorn now, but do have Oreos to munch... Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #201

Can you imagine what they would say if Bernie called black people 'oreos'? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #202

Shit like this makes you question yourself... Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #204

I hope the party won't back this bigot. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #208

The actual links to actual posts are an improvement musette_sf Jul 2017 #219

Wait so you're saying Rice and Carson aren't really black people? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #221

By the way, you're welcome! beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #218

Why, yes. Yes, I was. musette_sf Jul 2017 #220

If true, the irony is that Sanders wants us to court racists & homophobic folks ecstatic Jul 2017 #223

that is an interesting attempt to shovel oneself deeper. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #224

I have no idea who the guy is. Just pointing out the irony. nt ecstatic Jul 2017 #225

This is ridiculously false and beside the point. DemocraticWing Jul 2017 #226

Well, Bernie was screaming about primarying Obama Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #179

will probably be as successful as bernie's primary ing of obama was La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #181

Wont be able to discuss it much though GhostofJFK Jul 2017 #182

you can still support the democrat without bashing the independent La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #183

You would support this racist homophobe? Seriously? Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #206

I was making an overall point. No idea who this guy is La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #216

Good. Sanders' ego is out of control. ecstatic Jul 2017 #222

oh yeah, no doubt he'll lose by 30 points... Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #229

He sounds like a nut. But this is a democracy, and nuts get to run. LBM20 Jul 2017 #232