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brutus smith

(685 posts)
739. You really have a thing against FDR
Sun Jul 9, 2017, 08:33 AM
Jul 2017

BTW, I'm talking about the rights that were proposed. Maybe a president trump will help you in that regard.

they got what they wanted with Bush and Trump JI7 Jul 2017 #1
+1 nt Kahuna7 Jul 2017 #157
+2 eom BlueCaliDem Jul 2017 #336
Rubbish. SusanaMontana41 Jul 2017 #379
Consider Nader's impact on New Hampshire voting in 2000. VOX Jul 2017 #399
OK. Knock down No. 1 if you like. SusanaMontana41 Jul 2017 #401
I'm in complete agreement with you on those. VOX Jul 2017 #425
!!! Of course, the Dems never want to "look " bad, and it Alice11111 Jul 2017 #612
50% or it was Nader not seeing "the big picture". 50% was THIS PARTY not seeing the big picture. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #446
I agree. I am so tired of this bullshit argument. aquamarina Jul 2017 #404
Thank you. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #583
Plus, 4. SCOTUS, contrary to the Florida SupCrt's legit decision, Alice11111 Jul 2017 #607
They just simply don't give a damn - vanity is of the utmost importance to them. kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2017 #701
From the "left" with LIES. Cha Jul 2017 #2
What has been accomplished by attacking people who vote Green? Warpy Jul 2017 #3
Hopefully, what is accomplished is informing would-be Green voters of how useless the Green DanTex Jul 2017 #15
+10000 Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #358
More likely it will create another few decades of animosity from people whose support we could use. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #435
For some reason, I don't hear Green apologists use that same argument when it comes to DanTex Jul 2017 #481
They aren't trying to build a coalition of voters to support Democrats. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #496
I'm talking about people like you, who are defending the Green party. DanTex Jul 2017 #509
I'm not defending the green party. I am defending the Democratic party. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #577
Well then stop whimpering and whining about the poor Green Party's hurt feelings. DanTex Jul 2017 #587
Well, I'll give you points for trying. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #622
LOL. OK, let me rephrase it for you. DanTex Jul 2017 #630
I am not talking about Jill Stein or Susan Collins Gore1FL Jul 2017 #641
This OP is about Stien, Nader, the Green Party, and the rest of the far left. DanTex Jul 2017 #693
Let's find a way to bridge that gap then between Dem candidates and would-be third-party voters. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #699
Let's find a way to bridge the gap between Dems and moderate Republicans. DanTex Jul 2017 #705
We've been trying that since 1988 Gore1FL Jul 2017 #715
Not remotely true. The Dems did try it in the 90s (successfully). DanTex Jul 2017 #719
If you consider losing the House and Senate "success" I guess we were.... Gore1FL Jul 2017 #723
I consider winning the house and senate a success. Also winning the presidency. DanTex Jul 2017 #725
2006 wasn't in the 90s. Howard Dean's 50 state strategy deserves the credit Gore1FL Jul 2017 #727
Yes, 2006 wasn't in the 90s. Excellent point. DanTex Jul 2017 #728
Don't expect them to listen to you then. And don't expect to make a positive difference. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #730
Exactly...they are the enemies of Democrats as much as Republicans. In fact Greens prefer Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #645
The Stein people worked with Russia and did their best to help trump Gothmog Jul 2017 #654
They did...I fail to see how some defend them. I can't stand them and get a bit irrational on the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #659
If so them voting for stein wouldn't have mattered then. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #677
Some are not the smartest, for sure. Their arguments Alice11111 Jul 2017 #619
I'm trying to figure out what it is that you're really saying Cary Jul 2017 #25
Some folks, Michael Moore among them, learn the lesson. He voted Nader. He wont make that mistake stevenleser Jul 2017 #85
We can't end the Greens by trying to browbeat Green voters into backing the Dem presidential ticket Ken Burch Jul 2017 #344
It might...we need to up our efforts. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #359
We can't win anyone over through spewing bile and assigning blame. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #439
I agree and the Greens and our revolution should shut the fuck up. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #483
Yeah, Michael Moore, Sarah Silverman &Bill Maher Alice11111 Jul 2017 #613
Yes we have to stop pretending that Greens are potential allies...they are not and educate those Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #646
It's worth a try to educate them as Michael Moore &Bill Alice11111 Jul 2017 #737
I agree...I think stimatizing them would help reduce their effectiveness ..no one wants to belong to Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #741
Exactly. People don't like being insulted treestar Jul 2017 #164
You mean "WAH! He did it too?" Warpy Jul 2017 #318
Yes Greens are akin to four year olds...it is true....the third party riffraff has no patience with Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #361
So the left gets to complain about being insulted, treestar Jul 2017 #380
It isn't a good way to get independents or non-Democrats to vote for Dems, that's for sure. alarimer Jul 2017 #172
HRC had fantastic ideas and policy points. Hopefully you and everybody else here is familiar? Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #306
HRC DID have good ideas...and the fall platform(with many Sanders things added)was excellent Ken Burch Jul 2017 #350
can t respond without being banned Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #353
check your pms...we'll talk about it there. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #356
I know that Alice11111 Jul 2017 #621
Ken: HRC brought tons of policy to the debates and to the campaign trail. Media minimized policy, emulatorloo Jul 2017 #387
The campaign didn't bring them to the ads...the ads were predominately about attacking Trump. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #392
Maybe. OTOH which Trump ads, speeches, debate appearances presented policy emulatorloo Jul 2017 #398
I don't defend the Trump ads on policy, and I don't defend the Trump campaign on anything. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #406
I agree. Caliman73 Jul 2017 #572
The media played a role...but the media will ALWAYS play a role. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #575
Agree again. Caliman73 Jul 2017 #576
Thank you. This is the kind of exchange I'm looking for. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #582
Why, Donnie appreciated the efforts of Green Party voters. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #364
Neither does nominating liberals in red states like the three candidate Sen. Sanders endorsed. They Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #484
Yeah, but most people who call themselves independents Alice11111 Jul 2017 #620
The greens gave us the Iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act Gothmog Jul 2017 #191
THANK YOU. Green voters are unwittingly (or maybe wittingly) allies of GOP power-grab in the U.S. BlueCaliDem Jul 2017 #331
A vote for Stein was a vote for trump Gothmog Jul 2017 #348
Steiners will *never* own up to that. BlueCaliDem Jul 2017 #352
Plus, I bet anything she was helped by Putin. Just like Alice11111 Jul 2017 #617
No doubt about it. And the fact that she frothed at the mouth whenever she spoke of HRC BlueCaliDem Jul 2017 #639
Her votes made a difference. It is all so obvious. Alice11111 Jul 2017 #736
#Sad NurseJackie Jul 2017 #207
Thank you hueymahl Jul 2017 #230
Thank you so much Kimchijeon Jul 2017 #240
There's a better way to have a 3rd party be effective crazycatlady Jul 2017 #244
There is no reason for spoiler third parties in a two party system. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #485
WFP is not a spoiler third party crazycatlady Jul 2017 #556
You say 'some' Democrats...sorry. Democrats are the only vehicle that get progressive policy e Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #647
One reason Macron won in France, is the French have an Alice11111 Jul 2017 #618
The left leadership refused to back Macron. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #648
If Greens won't vote Dem they are useless to us. VermontKevin Jul 2017 #251
Greens are spoilers... they cost Democrats elections...they throw elections to the Republicans Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #357
I started to list something really argumentative Nevernose Jul 2017 #4
Just do it. Cary Jul 2017 #28
Hi Cary. Vote Democratic always! Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #667
How can any thinking person not vote for any democrat, in any election, as if their Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #309
Down ticket, I agree with you. SusanaMontana41 Jul 2017 #385
That is a very good point... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #486
the country has been pushed to the left, but since the party was determined to stay center-right.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #5
so Russ Feingold is center right ? JI7 Jul 2017 #12
I never said that every member of the party was center-right virtualobserver Jul 2017 #20
i think the fact that so called progressives/liberals didn't vote for him proves they are not JI7 Jul 2017 #21
Progressives and Liberals did vote for him. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #29
i wonder why that is not much of a concern of those who attack the democratic party and use the JI7 Jul 2017 #30
What I wonder is why it has not been a concern for the Democratic Party. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #32
it is a concern for the party and something the Obama admin and Clinton had worked on JI7 Jul 2017 #35
first, they failed.....second, they didn't hang it around the neck of the republican party virtualobserver Jul 2017 #46
Jill Stein kept the money for herself . her intention was never about counting the votes JI7 Jul 2017 #49
Jill Stein was talking about the evils of Operation Crosscheck during the campaign... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #55
Stein is a troll that kept the money for herself. JI7 Jul 2017 #56
you avoid my question...why was Jill Stein, and not Democrats attacking operation crosscheck..... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #59
Nader did lie about Gore . democrats need to be in power to get change. Charlie Crist was Governor JI7 Jul 2017 #60
you still avoid the elephant in the room.....Democratic Party inaction on the REAL reason...... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #62
they do deserve to be called out for their lies. democrats in power in california HAVE made things JI7 Jul 2017 #63
California can't win national elections for us. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #65
no state can win national elections by themselves . but California sure contributes a lot to doing JI7 Jul 2017 #66
What is the national party doing? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #69
many things, depends on what specifically JI7 Jul 2017 #72
about voter suppression virtualobserver Jul 2017 #73
We have gone to court...it is very hard to do anything about state elections...when the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #174
I spent weekends in PA in September and October lapucelle Jul 2017 #345
I pontificate wherever I am...at this moment, I just happen to be behind a keyboard virtualobserver Jul 2017 #349
The media focuses on what it chooses to focus on. lapucelle Jul 2017 #377
I don't believe that Democrats completely ignored it virtualobserver Jul 2017 #388
Thanks Ralph! Thanks Susan! lapucelle Jul 2017 #432
But Jill Stein and other Green riffraff can lose them for us right? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #170
Wow, a politician who criticizes another politician from another party during an election virtualobserver Jul 2017 #214
There is no such thing as a 'Green Party"...they are Green spoilers...why do you Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #217
Hillary talked more about voting suppression than Stein or any other candidate. bettyellen Jul 2017 #84
She talked about it a little.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #92
Baloney- she talked about the Russian interference, minorities being targeted by crosscheck and bettyellen Jul 2017 #143
I was here during the election. I wasn't on Mars. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #144
One of Hillary's first major policy speeches lapucelle Jul 2017 #538
Hillary had concrete policy proposals lapucelle Jul 2017 #383
No, you are hijacking the OP. The question is, what accomplishments can you list from attacking the stevenleser Jul 2017 #97
OK, the main accomplishment is that people are waking up and seeing that the Democratic Party..... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #102
The same people were saying that 25 years ago. stevenleser Jul 2017 #103
no willingness to change among the party upper echelon, but change is occurring nonetheless virtualobserver Jul 2017 #106
Nope, it's not. You can try to wish something into existence that isn't there but it won't work. stevenleser Jul 2017 #107
the Democratic Party misreads the electorate on a more fundamental level virtualobserver Jul 2017 #108
Or folks who see things like you do fundamentally misread it. On the one hand you have history... stevenleser Jul 2017 #111
In the elections where a Democrat actually became President, and then was re-elected..... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #114
It's truly glaring how you are trying to manipulate R B Garr Jul 2017 #121
I love Al Gore....I consider him to be heroic....He is funny, he is smart.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #128
It was all over the news that Nader equated Gore R B Garr Jul 2017 #130
What Nader said doesn't matter. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #133
Nader lied about Gore. He took votes from Gore. R B Garr Jul 2017 #138
JUST winning elections, by itself, isn't much of anything. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #343
will you name the "bleak and depressing Democratic candidates delisen Jul 2017 #460
I guess he's thinking of the scene in The Blues Note bar in a Naked Gun movie. betsuni Jul 2017 #461
I did above. The nominees in 1980, 1984, 1988. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #462
We lost because the country moved right and we ran left. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #649
We didn't "run left" in the Eighties. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #653
It is interesting that many blamed lefties who supported Gary Hart for Mondale's loss...this left Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #660
They ran bland centrist campaigns in the fall. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #668
Your kidding yourself... Dukakis and Mondale were both liberal and branded as Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #674
They branded Bill Clinton as a commie liberal, too. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #702
But he was able to fight back by running to the center...also Perot helped as did Buchanan. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #722
Both Mondale and Dukakis were forced to move left...if your read about it...and lost badly. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #724
He fought back by having a rapid response team tha stopped the smears before they could work. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #729
Governor elections are statewide. The GOP is in control ...they have Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #187
not knowing how to talk about progressive issues in elections is political suicide virtualobserver Jul 2017 #219
Oh please, that is totally not true...seriously I weary of this...No matter how you Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #239
have you ever read any books by George Lakoff? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #246
I read an article he wrote which said we need to give up 'identity' problems...I disagree. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #255
so, that's a no, then virtualobserver Jul 2017 #264
I read an article but not a book...I wasn't impressed that much with his reasoning. so I didn't Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #271
The difference between Republicans and Democrats virtualobserver Jul 2017 #277
If the country is "center left" that means it's open to progressive ideas. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #455
It also means that centrist ideas will work better Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #480
Wrong again... I hate the Greens ET AL as do most Democrats forced to live under Trump Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #178
I support Democrats taking responsibility for their current situation. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #216
Yeah...you have nothing nice to say about Democrats. I get that. You give the Greens Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #220
Greens are irrelevant. Republicans stole the elections in both 2000 and 2016. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #242
Thanks, VO. Sometimes loyal Dems are quick to blame others philly_bob Jul 2017 #332
+1 Million Me. Jul 2017 #312
+1 ciaobaby Jul 2017 #325
That's what they do Steven Chevy Jul 2017 #154
Wow, another tangent--3rd parties are completely R B Garr Jul 2017 #127
I'm not promoting 3rd parties virtualobserver Jul 2017 #132
You have complete understanding of every 3rd R B Garr Jul 2017 #134
I think that we need a 2nd party that stands up for itself virtualobserver Jul 2017 #136
Not lying about Democrats is a great way to start. R B Garr Jul 2017 #140
what is obvious to any thinking person is that we should have been doing a full court press.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #142
A bit of a tangent again. You said earlier that only R B Garr Jul 2017 #146
neither Gore nor Hillary became President virtualobserver Jul 2017 #150
Hillary got a higher percentage of votes than Clinton got both times JI7 Jul 2017 #153
The "swiftboating" of Democrats is not just done by R B Garr Jul 2017 #223
What is obvious is your constant promotion R B Garr Jul 2017 #516
is asking the Democratic Party to stand up and fight on this issue a third party strategy.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #518
If that is all you can see or acknowledge, then R B Garr Jul 2017 #521
I just don't care about third party candidates who get 1 or 2 percent of the votes virtualobserver Jul 2017 #526
That just doesn't sound genuine in light of all R B Garr Jul 2017 #527
I only promote third parties in your world of pure imagination virtualobserver Jul 2017 #528
Your words and methods promote 3rd parties. R B Garr Jul 2017 #530
no, I promote a courageous Democratic Party virtualobserver Jul 2017 #531
No, you are simply deflecting so that Democrats are blamed R B Garr Jul 2017 #532
you are calling me a liar virtualobserver Jul 2017 #533
Lol, another tangent. R B Garr Jul 2017 #534
just reality...take responsibility for your words virtualobserver Jul 2017 #535
More deflection! R B Garr Jul 2017 #537
if you don't have the courage to stand by your words, why are we even talking? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #539
Ah, yes, make it personal to deflect. R B Garr Jul 2017 #542
you made it personal virtualobserver Jul 2017 #544
Just look at your dozens of posts in this thread. R B Garr Jul 2017 #548
I blame you for misrepresenting what I wrote virtualobserver Jul 2017 #549
Dozens of your own posts in this thread represent exactly R B Garr Jul 2017 #550
all of my posts represent exactly what I mean virtualobserver Jul 2017 #552
Blaming Democrats for 3rd party lies is not R B Garr Jul 2017 #553
"blame Democrats for 3rd party lies" What does that statement even mean? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #555
Look at your posts. It means what it says. R B Garr Jul 2017 #563
I knew you couldn't answer it. Just empty accusations. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #574
Another tangent. What's empty is calling Democrats R B Garr Jul 2017 #586
I said that I promoted a courageous Democratic party in response to your statement.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #588
Why don't you reference where you are getting R B Garr Jul 2017 #589
Show me the post number where I said that Democrats were "not courageous" or "out of touch" virtualobserver Jul 2017 #593
Show where you are getting your many criticisms R B Garr Jul 2017 #595
so you got nothin' virtualobserver Jul 2017 #596
Your criticisms sound familiar. You have dozens R B Garr Jul 2017 #603
your story.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #605
You have dozens of posts in this thread, all of which R B Garr Jul 2017 #609
You just aren't used to interacting with people who have a different point of view on this site virtualobserver Jul 2017 #611
Forcing an alternate reality is a strategy. R B Garr Jul 2017 #615
I learned about reframing from books by George Lakoff. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #625
Interesting, because this contradicts what you said the other day about R B Garr Jul 2017 #626
there is no conflict between defending unfair attacks on Bernie, and my hopes for the party virtualobserver Jul 2017 #628
This still doesn't match what you wrote the other R B Garr Jul 2017 #631
goodbye virtualobserver Jul 2017 #632
At least we got to the bottom of the attacks R B Garr Jul 2017 #635
Thank you for your service. betsuni Jul 2017 #637
Well, thanks! R B Garr Jul 2017 #638
Or taking money from Republicans to spoil elections. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #365
States are in charge of elections, and you know this. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #179
Very easy....you talk about it nonstop, and run ads condemning the practice. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #218
This is not an issue that would enable us to win elections. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #241
there are plenty of people who aren't on a side virtualobserver Jul 2017 #248
And those voters won't be moved by Crosscheck...or anything really. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #254
and you magically know in advance that no voters will be affected by that virtualobserver Jul 2017 #263
And I don't think anyone gives a damn about this issue in fact it will be viewed as whining. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #652
no one cares about people being thrown off of voter rolls? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #661
I don't it is an issue that you can run on...and I think the GOP has convinced their people that Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #663
It has do be done correctly, that's all. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #666
No, because they are not open to being convinced and this is not an issue that many other than thos Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #675
you don't know that. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #680
The DNC and HRCs campaign had calls for volunteers and court cases in every state where this was bettyellen Jul 2017 #386
Jill Stein said Trump was a better choice than Hillary Clinton...Jill Stein went to states where she Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #168
the mighty Jill Stein vs. the poor helpless Democrats virtualobserver Jul 2017 #224
Your words not mine...it was a concerted effort Jill,Putin and Trump...with Comey Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #237
A vote for Stein was a vote for Trump Gothmog Jul 2017 #192
Yes it was. And the Greens are nothing but shitty spoilers...don't understand some Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #225
Didin't hear her do any of that. But I *did* hear her talk about the evils of Hillary Clinton. BlueCaliDem Jul 2017 #334
she did a lot of that as well virtualobserver Jul 2017 #338
Why was jill fucking stein Lying about Hillary when Cha Jul 2017 #346
Stein was a russian agent working to elect trump on behalf of Putin Gothmog Jul 2017 #360
Yes, Pawn for putin stein fit right in with Cha Jul 2017 #368
What I am hearing is "give me a reason to vote for that fill in the blank Democrat" Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #310
TRUTH!! eom BlueCaliDem Jul 2017 #335
Interesting. First, you say Democrats blame everyone but themselves. Then you say voter suppression BzaDem Jul 2017 #77
I blame them for not standing up against vote suppression as well. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #79
Do you have evidence to back up the claim that they don't stand up to voter suppression? BzaDem Jul 2017 #115
if they were standing up against it, it would be visible virtualobserver Jul 2017 #116
Have you tried looking at all? It took me all of three minutes to find the following. BzaDem Jul 2017 #137
It is a start.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #141
I can easily find many times that number of examples. But you want to know what would really help? BzaDem Jul 2017 #145
1. Gore won the vote in Florida with a full recount. K. Harris threw 173,000 voters off the rolls virtualobserver Jul 2017 #148
Interesting how you aren't even disputing that Nader could have single-handedly caused Gore to win. BzaDem Jul 2017 #149
sure, and Bill Clinton could have gone on the campaign trail for Gore, and swung the election too. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #151
There is no evidence that would have helped (and it could have easily hurt). Not so with Nader. BzaDem Jul 2017 #155
Translation, until we do what you want, 100%, you will punish us and for that Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #311
No, I have never voted for anyone but a Democrat virtualobserver Jul 2017 #315
Utter and complete nonsense. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #317
Democrats are the party that couldn't landslide the most clownish, ridiculous candidate ever virtualobserver Jul 2017 #320
Gee, wonder why Hillary ran up against so much trouble? Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #323
they went after Obama too, but he handled it virtualobserver Jul 2017 #326
Reality is that Trump is a con man, and he stole divisive talking points R B Garr Jul 2017 #327
Trump isn't a very good con man.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #333
Divisiveness was what was promoted -- you finally got that part. R B Garr Jul 2017 #337
Truth is often divisive virtualobserver Jul 2017 #339
Fake news is passed off as "truth". It's all the rage now. R B Garr Jul 2017 #342
Marc Veasey was the lead plaintiff in the Texas voter id case Gothmog Jul 2017 #196
You are so very very wrong Gothmog Jul 2017 #195
Not on the big stage.....there the party was not. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #235
You are totally and utterly wrong Gothmog Jul 2017 #260
I trained 200+ poll watchers for Harris County Gothmog Jul 2017 #194
fighting on the front lines is important virtualobserver Jul 2017 #227
Why will people who were so stupid to vote for Nader not take responsibility for their actions? Gothmog Jul 2017 #261
no, you are having to fight voter suppression efforts because Katherine Harris suppressed the vote virtualobserver Jul 2017 #266
Do you tire of being wrong? Gothmog Jul 2017 #268
so, it is the job of third parties to prop up poorly performing major party candidates virtualobserver Jul 2017 #273
Take responsbiity for the consequences of your vote Gothmog Jul 2017 #280
I voted for Gore virtualobserver Jul 2017 #287
No, your attempts at analysis are sad and wrong Gothmog Jul 2017 #289
the suppression was more than enough to shift the election.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #295
BTW, I was in Florida for 2004 Kerry Edwards voter protection team Gothmog Jul 2017 #270
So, many thousands were thrown off the voter rolls in 2000 and it had no effect virtualobserver Jul 2017 #274
Do you tire of being wrong? Gothmog Jul 2017 #281
the Republicans are responsible, not Nader virtualobserver Jul 2017 #288
Nader took Rove's money and Rove got his money worth Gothmog Jul 2017 #293
Only you have a right to a party virtualobserver Jul 2017 #297
Greens can do what they want so long as they take responsibility for trump Gothmog Jul 2017 #300
Democrats are the ones who need to take responsibility for Trump virtualobserver Jul 2017 #305
Wow, still promoting that 3rd party and still irrationally and R B Garr Jul 2017 #322
Yes, you got it. There is no answer for some folks other than blame Democrats. stevenleser Jul 2017 #91
I noticed that too treestar Jul 2017 #169
Exactly. Very transparent. R B Garr Jul 2017 #324
Not as many as voted for Clinton BainsBane Jul 2017 #135
Hillary got 1,382,210 Feingold got 1,380,335 virtualobserver Jul 2017 #139
Isn't that making an excuse? treestar Jul 2017 #165
that isn't the theory virtualobserver Jul 2017 #212
Russ Feingold does not know how to talk to voters? treestar Jul 2017 #262
not well enough to overcome the vote suppression virtualobserver Jul 2017 #267
I was also part of the Victory Counsel program Gothmog Jul 2017 #285
why should I take responsibility for it? what does it have to do with me? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #290
You are trying (and failing) to try to shift blame away from Nader and Stein Gothmog Jul 2017 #294
you think inside the box virtualobserver Jul 2017 #299
I live and work in the real world Gothmog Jul 2017 #301
You have devoted that time and you deserve credit for it.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #308
Again, your claims are not based on facts and you should consider working in the real world Gothmog Jul 2017 #316
this is a battle that needs to be won politically, it can never be won on the ground virtualobserver Jul 2017 #319
I strongly disagree with your analysis Gothmog Jul 2017 #355
your belief that..... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #363
I live in the real world and have actually worked on campaigns Gothmog Jul 2017 #366
I don't need a history lesson. I am familiar with all of that. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #373
Again, attempting to divert the topic with use of straw man arguments is a sign that you lost Gothmog Jul 2017 #374
have a nice day virtualobserver Jul 2017 #375
I see that you came up with a different straw man or red herring to attempt to divert attention Gothmog Jul 2017 #599
Have you ever worked in a campaign or for a party in the real world? Gothmog Jul 2017 #282
I have, and they do hold up. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #292
Do you really believe this? Gothmog Jul 2017 #296
So now, i'm a liar....or Delusional! virtualobserver Jul 2017 #298
No you are wrong in your analysis Gothmog Jul 2017 #304
If your method had ended vote suppression, I would accept your analysis virtualobserver Jul 2017 #313
Do you tire of being wrong? Gothmog Jul 2017 #321
Excellent post, even though you're met with yet another irrational tangent R B Garr Jul 2017 #329
I understand the GOP voter suppression efforts Gothmog Jul 2017 #347
Exactly, Gothmog. Your posts are so knowledgeable R B Garr Jul 2017 #519
I actually volunteer a great deal of my time on voter protection efforts Gothmog Jul 2017 #559
LOL, why would you ask me for a link to one of your posts saying that R B Garr Jul 2017 #627
George Lakoff, but it isn't a criticism....it's a note virtualobserver Jul 2017 #629
I quoted what you wrote that matches similar R B Garr Jul 2017 #633
bye, felicia virtualobserver Jul 2017 #634
At least we got to the bottom of this huge R B Garr Jul 2017 #636
They sounded familiar because your imagination produces this sort of nonsense often. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #640
You wouldn't have any idea about my imagination, but this is just more R B Garr Jul 2017 #679
In your world, if I express my opinion....I am trying to force an alternate reality onto others virtualobserver Jul 2017 #681
Parroting a politician isn't expressing an opinion. It is agreeing with that politician. R B Garr Jul 2017 #682
you aren't making any sense virtualobserver Jul 2017 #683
You finally admitted who you were protecting, so I made perfect sense. R B Garr Jul 2017 #684
your gibberish amuses you, I'll grant you that. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #685
You obviously understand very well. R B Garr Jul 2017 #686
I understand the concept of incoherent and contradictory expression.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #687
You should quit "reframing" people's posts, then. R B Garr Jul 2017 #688
you should consider refining your material at an open-mike night virtualobserver Jul 2017 #689
Your posts speak for themselves. You've clearly tried to reframe this entire R B Garr Jul 2017 #690
that is your mistake....telling the same joke over and over virtualobserver Jul 2017 #691
This thread is about attacking the party from the left and those 3rd party R B Garr Jul 2017 #692
you should reframe your jokes in a funnier way virtualobserver Jul 2017 #694
Your posts speak for themselves. R B Garr Jul 2017 #696
I must exclaim, I'm not to blame virtualobserver Jul 2017 #698
Oh, you're very much involved in reframing R B Garr Jul 2017 #704
Your posts don't speak for themselves.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #706
No worries, you're doing all the reframing R B Garr Jul 2017 #707
I have to. You are a one trick pony. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #708
Your reframing speaks for itself. R B Garr Jul 2017 #709
You aren't comfortable unless you label people virtualobserver Jul 2017 #710
LMAO, moar reframing. R B Garr Jul 2017 #711
it is reality....you aren't willing to actually discuss things virtualobserver Jul 2017 #712
Project much? R B Garr Jul 2017 #713
I tried to actually respond to your posts virtualobserver Jul 2017 #714
What we could have had: R B Garr Jul 2017 #716
So in your indirect way....are you saying that Gore was your first vote? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #717
I guess it wasn't that indirect.....it was simply a more elegant way of expressing it virtualobserver Jul 2017 #718
Al Gore wasn't my first vote, but I've been thinking about him a lot since R B Garr Jul 2017 #734
on election night when Fox News set in motion the initial cascade of calls that Bush had won.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #735
I think the reframing to fit one politician's viewpoints are not the way to go, though. R B Garr Jul 2017 #743
I defend Bernie from attack... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #744
No, dont' follow George Lakoff, but a quick Google shows R B Garr Jul 2017 #745
Lakoff uses the word "moral" in terms of the differing viewpoints concerning right and wrong.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #747
Seems very abstract and impractical. Not sure if attacking Democrats from R B Garr Jul 2017 #757
it doesn't have anything to do with attacking Democrats, from the left or otherwise virtualobserver Jul 2017 #758
Reframe the blame... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #697
Nader Elected Bush: Why We Shouldn't Forget Gothmog Jul 2017 #754
Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency? Gothmog Jul 2017 #752
You don't understand how politics works virtualobserver Jul 2017 #755
It is you who does not understand politics or math Gothmog Jul 2017 #759
Why don't you believe that Democrats have to earn people's votes? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #761
So you are giving up on your silly clam that the SCOTUS was the reason for bush's win Gothmog Jul 2017 #766
it is Surreal to see you calling the SCOTUS theft of the election as a silly claim. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #768
Your attempt to use a straw man to divert attention was the silly thing Gothmog Jul 2017 #769
you blame Nader for the Iraq War but not Democrats who voted for Authorization.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #772
Oh goodie, another red herring or straw man arguement Gothmog Jul 2017 #775
you clearly don't understand what a red herring is virtualobserver Jul 2017 #776
I was a college debater and I am lawyer Gothmog Jul 2017 #777
you have picked out one person and one event and declared them solely responsible for an outcome.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #778
The concept of proximate causation and causation is covered in first year torts Gothmog Jul 2017 #779
The fact that you didn't pay attention in law school is none of my concern virtualobserver Jul 2017 #780
Silly but sad layperson Gothmog Jul 2017 #781
when I encounter a math professor who cannot add or subtract.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #782
I love it when laypersons try to use red herring and other silly excuses Gothmog Jul 2017 #783
you Scapegoat Nader for SCOTUS decisions that took place 10-13 years later virtualobserver Jul 2017 #784
You do know that Bush appointed Roberts and Alito? Gothmog Jul 2017 #785
you do know that Roberts and Alito were appointed in Bush's second term? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #786
bush won in 2004 because he was POTUS during a war he started Gothmog Jul 2017 #787
Your magic Nader theory always finds a new way to Blame Nader virtualobserver Jul 2017 #788
The concept of causation is covered in first year torts Gothmog Jul 2017 #789
the fact that you keep bringing up torts is pretty hilarious virtualobserver Jul 2017 #790
Not to a lawyer or someone who debated in college Gothmog Jul 2017 #791
The only sad thing would be if you represent the view of the Democratic Party upper echelon. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #792
I was a delgate to the National Convention Gothmog Jul 2017 #793
So you are telling me that we are screwed, then. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #794
Only if you believe that Nader and the greenies are not idiots Gothmog Jul 2017 #795
I don't give a shit about what Greenies accept. I am a Democrat. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #796
If you really are a Democrat, then why are you defending Nader and the greenies? Gothmog Jul 2017 #798
That has been your mistake, imagining that I am defending Nader and the Green Party virtualobserver Jul 2017 #799
Those greenies have the sense to be sorry may be reachable Gothmog Jul 2017 #803
BTW. I really love this post on another thread Gothmog Jul 2017 #770
anyone who thinks Trump is to the left is not a liberal at all JI7 Jul 2017 #14
The poster said Trump lied to sound 'left' leftstreet Jul 2017 #38
and as i said, anyone who thought he was left, soudned left etc was not left JI7 Jul 2017 #40
That I don't know leftstreet Jul 2017 #42
i can easily understand it . same reason george zimmerman got away with killing trayvon martin JI7 Jul 2017 #44
He did not sound left at all. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #175
Agreed. Democrats need to face some hard things lovemydogs Jul 2017 #19
Yeah tough decisions...first step throw Nina Turner out if she still calls herself a Democrat tell Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #568
The country has not moved to the left at all. If anything, it has moved to the right. stevenleser Jul 2017 #96
You cannot defeat all of that data because you don't know how to talk to the voters in the center. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #231
The party had the most liberal platform in its history. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #171
You are ignoring the fact that it was Nader who gave us the gutting of the voting rights act Gothmog Jul 2017 #200
Your obsession with Nader as the sole cause is well documented virtualobserver Jul 2017 #512
The facts bear me out Gothmog Jul 2017 #558
since the recount showed that when all ballots were counted in Florida, Gore won.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #562
Why do you not want to deal with facts? The facts show that Nader gave the election to W Gothmog Jul 2017 #564
You ignore the most basic fact...Gore got the most votes virtualobserver Jul 2017 #579
The only reason that there was a recount was due to nader's stupidity Gothmog Jul 2017 #592
Reality is not hard. Gore got the most votes. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #594
The use of straw man and red herring arguments are cute but are not effective Gothmog Jul 2017 #597
math is math. Gore won the most votes virtualobserver Jul 2017 #600
Red Herrings and Straw man are cute but not effective Gothmog Jul 2017 #601
Your focus on Nader is the red herring virtualobserver Jul 2017 #604
Look at the OP and the topic of this thread Gothmog Jul 2017 #606
When Gore got the most votes, did Nader force Republicans to steal the election? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #608
Did Gore become POTUS? Gothmog Jul 2017 #610
No, because Republicans blocked the recount virtualobserver Jul 2017 #623
Still pushing the red herring/strawman argument Gothmog Jul 2017 #656
In your world, Gore got the most votes, Republicans stole the election, and you blame Nader virtualobserver Jul 2017 #664
Keep on pointing fingers at other straw man or red herrings Gothmog Jul 2017 #673
No one rational is buying your argument that the Republicans didn't steal the election virtualobserver Jul 2017 #678
Do you tire of being wrong? Gothmog Jul 2017 #748
do you tire of using the word tire? virtualobserver Jul 2017 #749
Ralph Nader Was Indispensable To The Republican Party Gothmog Jul 2017 #750
do you ever tire of blaming voters and other candidates virtualobserver Jul 2017 #753
Why are you afraid to admit that Nader gave us the Iraq War, Citizens United and Shelby County case Gothmog Jul 2017 #760
Nader didn't cost Gore anything. Gore did not convince enough voters to satisfy you. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #762
The peer review studies show that Nader cost Gore 27,000 net votes Gothmog Jul 2017 #763
Gore did not convince the people who voted for Nader to vote for him. That was his job, not Nader's. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #764
In the real world, the peer reviewed studies show that Nader cost Gore 27,000 net votes control Gothmog Jul 2017 #765
I don't need a "peer reviewed study" to realize that it is the job of the candidate to win votes virtualobserver Jul 2017 #767
Karl Rove funded Nader and nader wanted Bush to win Gothmog Jul 2017 #771
You are great at cutting and pasting, but you can't refute my argument virtualobserver Jul 2017 #773
A red herring argument is not a real argument Gothmog Jul 2017 #774
NADER WANTED GEORGE W. BUSH PRESIDENT. Gothmog Jul 2017 #751
This line of reasoning is really funny Gothmog Jul 2017 #598
Not too sure which myths you base your inaccurate premise on... LanternWaste Jul 2017 #284
the platform is a lovely document.....much kicking and screaming in its creation virtualobserver Jul 2017 #513
Look at who holds the governorship's...the country is not left. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #487
My contention is that Democrats have not learned how to talk to voters in the center.... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #514
Sure that explains it all . It doesn't really explain the shift in the states to Republican Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #543
I would suggest that all of them read Al Franken's latest book. octoberlib Jul 2017 #6
the key though, is to start the negotiations from the left virtualobserver Jul 2017 #23
NO, we live in a center left country at best ...if we did this, we could face losses as bad Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #183
there is a left, and there is a right but there is a huge center, and that center can be persuaded virtualobserver Jul 2017 #222
There is no evidence that is true...not a bit. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #238
there are polls which say otherwise virtualobserver Jul 2017 #245
There is no center. such as shown..those who are not affiliated with one party or the other Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #256
you have it all figured out virtualobserver Jul 2017 #265
I think we can improve our situation. We have a court case that has a shot at stopping the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #269
The Partisan Gerrymandering case is a very interesting case that I am following Gothmog Jul 2017 #286
As you know Justice Kennedy has long been opposed to gerrymandering or so he says. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #488
Chad Dunn is the outside counsel for the Texas Democratic Party and is a counsel in the Texas case Gothmog Jul 2017 #560
This makes me smile Gothmog Jul 2017 #561
I love Mark Green! Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #651
So am I Gothmog Jul 2017 #657
Very interesting. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #658
Al Franken is one of our BEST hueymahl Jul 2017 #232
The Clintons pushed the party to the right in the '90s. It's time to rebalance. Zen Democrat Jul 2017 #7
28 years ago, some Democrats wanted to actually win. R B Garr Jul 2017 #11
It was a very different time 28 years ago. lovemydogs Jul 2017 #17
That wasn't the point, though, but yes R B Garr Jul 2017 #50
It was a mistake for the party to go republican light back then elmac Jul 2017 #81
Why, because losing three Presidential elections in a row by landslide proportions wasn't enough? stevenleser Jul 2017 #82
So we should run candidates like Dukakis, Mondale, and McGovern? BzaDem Jul 2017 #152
Dukakis and Mondale didn't run in the fall as liberals. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #453
I am sorry that is not accurate. Even with Ross Perot running who took votes from the Pugs, Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #233
Smart observations and btw JHan Jul 2017 #340
Exactly. Clinton played the only cards he could...the fact he tried for single payer healthcare Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #492
Right. The most progressive platform in history was "republican light." ehrnst Jul 2017 #275
Not even close shenmue Jul 2017 #257
Can you be more specific on how they 'pushed the party to the right?' ehrnst Jul 2017 #276
The country was to the right in the 90's. We barely won with both Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #489
No they didn't...12 years of massive losses pushed the party to the center...and Bill Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #669
Obama aikoaiko Jul 2017 #8
LOL. The far left attacked Obama as being CENTRIST. He didn't appeal to them. pnwmom Jul 2017 #22
Eventually, the far left criticized Obama for shifting to the center. aikoaiko Jul 2017 #45
he didn't shift to the center. obama was the same as he has always been. JI7 Jul 2017 #47
Maybe. Maybe not. aikoaiko Jul 2017 #51
Obama wasn't President in 2008 JI7 Jul 2017 #52
No he wasn't. Did someone say he was? aikoaiko Jul 2017 #57
these are the same trolls that always attack democrats. and htis is just proof JI7 Jul 2017 #58
This proves that even during his FIRST campaign he was being accused of being too centrist. pnwmom Jul 2017 #68
Yes, after he secured the nomination. aikoaiko Jul 2017 #71
They saw that he was black and so they had assumptions about him. But they changed their mind pnwmom Jul 2017 #75
Hope and Change, pnwmom. Hope and Change. aikoaiko Jul 2017 #76
Yes. The hope and the change was that he promised to bring people TOGETHER. pnwmom Jul 2017 #83
not true, the so called leftists were supporting John Edwards and attacking OBama and Clinton JI7 Jul 2017 #80
And Kucinich, don't forget him. stevenleser Jul 2017 #87
No, let's forget him. pnwmom Jul 2017 #302
John Edwards was a good leftie candidate* until January aikoaiko Jul 2017 #90
John Edwards was never a good lefty for those who actually care about where candidates stand on JI7 Jul 2017 #93
Well I meant to write a good leftie candidate, but I'm going to bed. aikoaiko Jul 2017 #95
i don't see the difference, he still co sponsered the IWR JI7 Jul 2017 #98
He was never that very lefty - but somehow it didn't hurt him w Uber lefties lol bettyellen Jul 2017 #147
You're right but he was saying a lot of the right things. aikoaiko Jul 2017 #161
He DID a lot of things that were total non starters though. It's interesting to watch peope bettyellen Jul 2017 #258
No, many supported Kucinich. They were always worried that Obama was too conciliatory, pnwmom Jul 2017 #303
A whole lot of us supported Dean or Clark in 2004 Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #193
agreed NewJeffCT Jul 2017 #177
He never shifted. He campaigned on bringing both sides together, not on being to the left. n/t pnwmom Jul 2017 #67
I think you're mostly right, except that he retreated from some of the issues that lefties liked. aikoaiko Jul 2017 #70
The far left abandoned Pres. Obama and helped the GOP win in 10 because we didn't get single payer. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #670
people want to forget what went on through Obama's presidency and the attacks he got JI7 Jul 2017 #48
Speaking for myself, I must take exception to this. PatrickforO Jul 2017 #54
Great post! nevergiveup Jul 2017 #61
+1 0rganism Jul 2017 #74
Excellent post. CentralMass Jul 2017 #173
Thread winner - thank you! klook Jul 2017 #370
Beautifully stated. aquamarina Jul 2017 #584
Great post. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #671
Obama ran as center left. He did not run as a liberal. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #490
What was accomplished? The country got pushed to the right, two wars, thousands lunamagica Jul 2017 #9
yeap YCHDT Jul 2017 #10
I wonder when they will finally see that. There is a lot of flailing under this OP by some folks stevenleser Jul 2017 #109
We are seventeen years past 2000. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #457
18 years since Nader announced his candidacy and started attacking Democrats stevenleser Jul 2017 #465
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2017 #473
Another non answer to the OP question. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #475
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2017 #476
There is nothing wrong with healthy debate between left and center lovemydogs Jul 2017 #13
so we need to move on from Feingold because he won in 1992 but lost twice after ? JI7 Jul 2017 #16
I think the country is further right than it was inn 92...not less. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #491
Of course not if you are Republican that is...you should encourage it as a means to win every Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #571
Not a motherfucking thing ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #18
And why can't Democrats walk and chew gum at the same time? lovemydogs Jul 2017 #24
it's the majority of white people who have a problem with these issues and vote republican because JI7 Jul 2017 #26
A certain person wysi Jul 2017 #27
some people falsely claimed that "a certain person" chose between the two. virtualobserver Jul 2017 #34
Bingo. n/t QC Jul 2017 #39
The certain person built a campaign message that Democrats were ignoring them. R B Garr Jul 2017 #252
Yep. A certain person tried to say all racial inequality was economic class warfare. stevenleser Jul 2017 #105
Sounds like you're being divisive. elleng Jul 2017 #31
Nope, that's the folks attacking Democrats from the left. But I already said that in my OP. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #89
Steve for the sake of clarity... Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #209
THANK YOU TOM, elleng Jul 2017 #395
Thank you for more one-sidedness? stevenleser Jul 2017 #469
Tom, for the sake of Clarity, are folks attacking the Democratic Party the only ones allowed stevenleser Jul 2017 #468
I answered your OP questions below Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #479
The false equivalencies only gave more power to the republicans until Howard Dean came around and still_one Jul 2017 #33
Dean was right but the fact is the reason we had control then was because many of those democrats JI7 Jul 2017 #37
Absolutely J17 still_one Jul 2017 #43
The same people who claim Dems have been pushed to the left by them also claim betsuni Jul 2017 #36
Not Much colsohlibgal Jul 2017 #41
The only way to push the Democratic party to the left is through organization and winning elections. Yavin4 Jul 2017 #53
I think one other thing. Direct outreach to those who disagree. stevenleser Jul 2017 #110
No. The only way is to win elections. Yavin4 Jul 2017 #190
Jack Squat Doug the Dem Jul 2017 #64
One's definition of ''left'' might mean a whole different thing to another. Define ''left". YOHABLO Jul 2017 #78
In 18 years since Naders run, what has been accomplished by the Dem party attacking the left? quakerboy Jul 2017 #86
It's not a relevant question, it's an attempt to hijack my OP. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #88
Your op is an attempt to hijack discussion quakerboy Jul 2017 #101
Not even a nice try. Fail. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #104
Fail is where this thread was bound. quakerboy Jul 2017 #443
It is not your thread is it? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #493
Its a general discussion thread quakerboy Jul 2017 #591
Great question melman Jul 2017 #117
It's not what they do treestar Jul 2017 #167
The left is not being attacked. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #186
Interesting take on it quakerboy Jul 2017 #442
Excuse me, but who is attacking whom? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #482
Who has more to gain or lose by attacking whom? quakerboy Jul 2017 #590
What!?? Eko Jul 2017 #756
And for those that DID NOT get health care? quakerboy Jul 2017 #800
You would have to ask first Eko Jul 2017 #802
Noone has clean hands quakerboy Jul 2017 #804
Well, lets look at the big picture. Eko Jul 2017 #805
Yes, lets quakerboy Jul 2017 #807
No one has had a good response to the OP that justifies the attacks on the party from the left yet. stevenleser Jul 2017 #94
Also too, I'd like to know where this Neoliberal Establishment Democratic Party is. betsuni Jul 2017 #99
Edited: Sorry, misread your post stevenleser Jul 2017 #100
I could turn that 180 and ask you the same set of questions rpannier Jul 2017 #112
You wouldn't if you didn't want to try to distract from the question in my OP. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #113
And if you were seriously looking melman Jul 2017 #119
If the question is threatening to your views then that's the answer stevenleser Jul 2017 #123
Long does not equal thoughtful. Squinch Jul 2017 #371
On the nose KTM Jul 2017 #378
You are making a claim that has an inherent weakness rpannier Jul 2017 #120
As I said to the other poster, if your viewpoint is threatened by the question stevenleser Jul 2017 #124
And a question w/o substance rpannier Jul 2017 #125
You only characterize it thusly because it threatens your entrenched views. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #126
Wow! rpannier Jul 2017 #131
That you can't or won't answer...what good has come from attacking Democrats? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #494
Great post melman Jul 2017 #118
No, it's called threadjacking which is a kind of trolling stevenleser Jul 2017 #122
Because you cannot defend your argument rpannier Jul 2017 #129
I do not enable trollish behavior no matter how you try to frame it. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #198
You're smarter on TV rpannier Jul 2017 #431
Says the person who couldn't answer a simple question in the OP stevenleser Jul 2017 #467
Accomplished? Dubya and Trump. nt Kahuna7 Jul 2017 #156
This! NT Bleacher Creature Jul 2017 #228
the extreme left is no different than the extrerme right....their ideology has always been the beachbum bob Jul 2017 #158
Fox News, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, etc., etc., etc. Vinca Jul 2017 #159
The idiot leftist extremists got precisely what they wanted. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #160
The so called left has enabled the GOP and enacted GOP policies...mostly Greens and other Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #162
Another response that attempts to evade the question. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #197
I did answer the question. Elections are run by states...and GOP states are using crosscheck so Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #211
Great post Gothmog Jul 2017 #376
Thank you. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #391
It does not work at all treestar Jul 2017 #163
Well the Dems have LOST 900+ state seats alarimer Jul 2017 #166
We lost with a gerrymander and because of the alt left often...third party riffraff. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #184
That is only a partial explanation alarimer Jul 2017 #250
The left generally criticized Dean for that...and were adamant about not having him Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #253
The left loved Dean fishwax Jul 2017 #525
Not this year...Dean is establishment now. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #536
it would have been better if he'd stayed on in '09 fishwax Jul 2017 #554
You did not attempt to answer the question in the OP. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #202
Okay, more Dems voted for GEORGE W. BUSH in Florida than Ralph Nader that year. alarimer Jul 2017 #247
And that means nothing because there is no test for party registration. stevenleser Jul 2017 #570
Why did you leave out gerrymandering and voter suppression? You think everyone doesn't know by now!? YCHDT Jul 2017 #213
K&R mcar Jul 2017 #176
There are millions of people to the left of the Democratic center Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #180
I run left but understand the need to elect Democrats...but green riffraff and other third party Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #495
"There are no organizations that attack the left period..." Tom Rinaldo Jul 2017 #511
I see it completely different ...I see the Democratic Party under attack from the right and the left Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #567
Oh actually we pushed the centrist establishment Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #181
You already went away sadly...have you looked at the 2016 election carefully? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #185
Right, keep telling yourself that. Keep repeating the same failed formula. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #411
No, LGBTQ organizations deserve credit for LGBTQ equality, not Nader and Stein. stevenleser Jul 2017 #199
nice try. I said nothing about Nader and Stein. You attacked "the left" in general. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #410
Nope, that is your straw man. My OP was about those who attack Democrats from the left stevenleser Jul 2017 #418
Oh brother! NurseJackie Jul 2017 #205
And sisters. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #412
I don't care about the third party left or the green riffraff... the Democratic left Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #497
God Bless You!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU LaydeeBug Jul 2017 #182
Nader gave us the Iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act Gothmog Jul 2017 #188
If we would have moved to left brutus smith Jul 2017 #189
That is not the question. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #203
The question was what has been accomplished brutus smith Jul 2017 #229
BTW, I don't call trying to bring the party brutus smith Jul 2017 #234
FDR put people in camps. That is a fact...and his vision is almost 100 years old Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #499
There was this little thing called Social Security brutus smith Jul 2017 #566
The "The New Deal" was only for White folks. And Johnson enacted medicaid and medicare... not Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #720
You have your opinion, I have mine. brutus smith Jul 2017 #731
What I posted was not opinion. These were things that happened under Roosevelt...including Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #732
Which one of these rights do you disagree with brutus smith Jul 2017 #733
all of the ones that didn't apply to POC or women...rights are meaningless without equality. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #738
You really have a thing against FDR brutus smith Jul 2017 #739
Actually, I adore Roosevelt. He was a great man. He saved this country and was Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #740
I never said FDR was perfect brutus smith Jul 2017 #742
We never had all those rights...even if we were white in during those years and POC had no such Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #746
Truth hueymahl Jul 2017 #236
How is that possible, your first statement? George II Jul 2017 #283
Pushing from the left helps slow the party's move to the right. Orsino Jul 2017 #201
LOL! NurseJackie Jul 2017 #204
The burden is on you to prove that.Its much easier to show evidence the other way. stevenleser Jul 2017 #206
Nope. Evidence would consist of measuring effects. Orsino Jul 2017 #208
So moderates have lost 3 out of 5 elections? Nevernose Jul 2017 #243
You consider the election of Trump moving the party to the left or slowing the move to the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #502
No. n/t Orsino Jul 2017 #529
the fostering of divisiveness within the Democratic bloc has done a disservice to us all fishwax Jul 2017 #210
After Nader and Stein, those of us who actually want to stop Republicans from being elected stevenleser Jul 2017 #215
Yeah, certainly there is a small but not insignificant block of folks who don't get that fishwax Jul 2017 #291
What do you want, steven? Ken Burch Jul 2017 #452
Good questions. I've been asking a similar question for month, still with no answer: George II Jul 2017 #221
The Left is stronger today than in decades. Liberalism is fading away. DemocraticWing Jul 2017 #226
Nope, the opinion of Socialism hasn't changed in 25 years stevenleser Jul 2017 #417
You can keep ignoring us if you want, but we'll keep organizing and building DemocraticWing Jul 2017 #428
Opinion articles won't help you. Statistics show zero movement in the voters' opinion of Socialism. stevenleser Jul 2017 #429
You're using a poll that compares 2016 to 2010, but modern opinions have shifted post-2000. DemocraticWing Jul 2017 #430
Right that is why had Bush and now Trump because we are so far left...socialist and all. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #508
Building what? More Republican majorities? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #503
In the spring of 2016, the polls showed 55% saying they'd vote for a candidate who said he was. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #454
Show me an election where a socialist won...it didn't happen in 16. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #517
It's called ratfucking. VermontKevin Jul 2017 #249
Did Obama "attack the party (read : Hillary) from the left" in 2008? bullwinkle428 Jul 2017 #259
He opposed the Iraq war like a raving left wing lunatic dove. killbotfactory Jul 2017 #351
It's Very Simple Tribalceltic Jul 2017 #272
Yes, of course it has. Because these more left leaning groups offer an alternative to voters. They JCanete Jul 2017 #278
There is no 'alternative' to Democrats...unless you want to elect Republicans. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #504
the alternative is a vote that tells the Democratic party where you stand. There is no democracy JCanete Jul 2017 #541
The "attacks" from the left on the Dem establishment do NOT REACH the large majority of the vkkv Jul 2017 #279
That is bs...and the left helped the GOP pull the country right by enabling GOP majorities. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #505
I'm Late To This Thread Me. Jul 2017 #307
We get... Mike Nelson Jul 2017 #314
Post removed Post removed Jul 2017 #328
A con man stole these divisive talking points and now look how empty they are R B Garr Jul 2017 #330
At the time it happened, progressives were totally silenced and powerless WITHIN this party. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #341
"Totally silenced and powerless", huh? LOL! NurseJackie Jul 2017 #369
In the Nineties, progressives were totally silenced and shut down. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #389
LOL! NurseJackie Jul 2017 #400
What, in any of the things I support, is "hard left"? Ken Burch Jul 2017 #408
medicare for all is the new hard left. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #413
Does that make LBJ the new Trotsky? Ken Burch Jul 2017 #415
In the 90's the country was right leaning... and we had not Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #506
It could equally be asked Ken Burch Jul 2017 #354
LOL! (That again?) NurseJackie Jul 2017 #362
President Obama won twice in large electoral vote victories Gothmog Jul 2017 #382
It's always a sign that you are losing the argument when you resort to personal abuse. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #397
Go try you amusing theories on that thread Gothmog Jul 2017 #402
It's personal abuse to claim I don't live in the real world and don't know practical politics. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #420
Dems new pitch to voters: A Better Deal Gothmog Jul 2017 #424
Ken-your posts speak for themselves Gothmog Jul 2017 #426
I live in the real world-it's just that I disagree with you on what's possible in this world. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #436
Ken-I strongly disagree with your silly platform because it will not work win the real world Gothmog Jul 2017 #440
You have the right to disagree with me on the level of ideas. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #441
I am basing my opinion on real experience in the real world Gothmog Jul 2017 #445
I'm not scared to post in the other thread. Most of the posters there agree with me. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #448
The posters on that thread did not agree with you and the fact that you believe that amuses me Gothmog Jul 2017 #451
The African-American voters voted against Perriello because he was anti-choice in the far past. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #456
Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Jul 2017 #507
They did not vote for perriello in my opinion because Northam was better established and endorsed Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #515
The base aren't centrist Ken Burch Jul 2017 #581
I have posted in that thread, and found a lot of agreement with my views. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #458
"Your proposals do reflect the rank and file of the Democratic Party" Ken Burch Jul 2017 #459
"Please stop refighting the past" ... Seriously? OMG! LOL!!! NurseJackie Jul 2017 #405
You can't seriously argue that progressives had a real say in the Nineties. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #416
LOL! See? (The 90's are still in the past!) NurseJackie Jul 2017 #422
So many OMG LOLs. It is almost too much for me. betsuni Jul 2017 #423
I am also laughing at these claims Gothmog Jul 2017 #447
Laughing is not disproving. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #450
More like liberal candidates lost in the 70's and 80's so maybe a centrist might have a chance and Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #573
Do you mean those who criticized from the left from WITHIN the Party or from outside the Party? George II Jul 2017 #384
Both. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #394
Statistics can be used to present any viewpoint. But your comments are a bit off... George II Jul 2017 #409
OK, but in tying that to centrism, you have correlation, not causation. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #414
The claims that it's the democrats fault that congressional and state legislative races were lost stevenleser Jul 2017 #474
This post will definitely change their minds that's for sure. vi5 Jul 2017 #367
"attacking them from the right" JHan Jul 2017 #372
Well, I keep hearing about how they are "attacking Democrats from the left" vi5 Jul 2017 #390
That's a very literal interpretation though JHan Jul 2017 #403
See I'm not radically liberal.... vi5 Jul 2017 #407
For me personally... JHan Jul 2017 #433
There is nothing wrong with incremental changes Gothmog Jul 2017 #449
This is the kind of nonsense you get when you ask a simple question stevenleser Jul 2017 #470
Nothing is going to change their minds treestar Jul 2017 #381
Maybe not.... vi5 Jul 2017 #396
Blame, blame , blame treestar Jul 2017 #478
Who says irony is dead... vi5 Jul 2017 #498
That so many of you find this question so vexing says a lot stevenleser Jul 2017 #471
You do realize the same thing could be said about... vi5 Jul 2017 #500
Is what the democratic party is still doing working, is also a valid question that has to be asked, JCanete Jul 2017 #546
"Attacking them from the right" betsuni Jul 2017 #477
I think there was a father and daughter team that personified Nader, Stein and the like DFW Jul 2017 #393
Veruca Salt is a pretty good analogy for those who attack Democrats from the left nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #421
Still no positive accomplishments listed by anyone. Case closed. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #419
The winner... tonedevil Jul 2017 #434
We had no right to expect those people to just support our ticket no matter how far right it went. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #444
More attempts to distract from the question in the OP that is a very simple one. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #472
You mean no positive accomplishments that you will accept, but unless you're going to effectively JCanete Jul 2017 #547
So, where is the list of positive things Dems have accomplished since Trump took office? vkkv Jul 2017 #565
Of course Russia, voter suppression and Comey is left out of this critique because ... YCHDT Jul 2017 #662
I AM A DEM !! vkkv Jul 2017 #672
Sorry, can't add much. I have come to hate the alt-left and everything they are with the heat of Blue_true Jul 2017 #427
DU exists IronLionZion Jul 2017 #437
Very little. But not everything from the left is an attack. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #438
They are not allies and win only by demonizing Democrats and our party. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #520
If they aren't our allies then don't complain that their votes go elsewhere. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #578
No compromise... EVAH!!!! BootinUp Jul 2017 #463
I voted for Hillary but sellitman Jul 2017 #464
So you couldn't answer the question in the OP but felt compelled to respond stevenleser Jul 2017 #466
In fairness to sellitman, the question was loaded and stupid. Gore1FL Jul 2017 #501
You are 100% wrong. It's a question that should always be asked. I'm surprised I even need to say stevenleser Jul 2017 #569
the question comes down to what you include in "it" Gore1FL Jul 2017 #580
I don't equate Nader & Bernie sellitman Jul 2017 #643
My suggestion is to move the country left before the party moves left so we can actually win Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #523
Nice snark sellitman Jul 2017 #642
Thank you. Running candidates who can't win is a waste of time. Primarying Joe Manchin for example Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #644
Stop blaming the left for centrist democrats blowing elections. killbotfactory Jul 2017 #510
Th alt- left has blown every election that we lost since 2000. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #522
When Hillary was thought to be a sure thing, they were dismissed killbotfactory Jul 2017 #524
They took their ball and went home...here is hoping they suffer 1000 times more Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #540
"Th alt- left" Act_of_Reparation Jul 2017 #585
Stop ignoring the fact that the changes that the Clintons brought to the party are why we are stevenleser Jul 2017 #616
That is so true. I am so so sick of the bashing of Clinton. He tried to get single payer health care Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #650
Absolutely true. Clinton beat the Republicans at their own game. And they R B Garr Jul 2017 #655
for the past couple of days this thread keeps showing up at the top of the Latest page Kali Jul 2017 #545
Yeah, he'll ignore anything that actually happened zipplewrath Jul 2017 #557
It has done more harm than good. They need their own Party that doesn't [ Lil Missy Jul 2017 #551
Nader did not invent it. See 1968. See 1980. McCamy Taylor Jul 2017 #602
Try thinking outside the box iamateacher Jul 2017 #614
"Interject" away. Sparkly Jul 2017 #624
663 replies...the biggest post I ever remember... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #665
Surveys show a steady increase in support for very liberal ideas. guillaumeb Jul 2017 #676
It's making us tough. ZX86 Jul 2017 #695
8+years of damage to the environment and extinction & mass killing of wildlife. I will never forgive kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2017 #700
This is a very long thread. Who should I insult? AngryAmish Jul 2017 #703
Greens of course...they have it coming. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #721
If you're in the center at this point and time, then you're just Rep. Lite. YOHABLO Jul 2017 #726
The thread that will not die. Almost 800 posts. Hekate Jul 2017 #797
Illustrative that those who attack the Democratic Party from the left are stevenleser Jul 2017 #808
It proved that the Republican Party is the ENEMY of HUMANITY Fluke a Snooker Jul 2017 #801
We didn't need Nader or Stein for that. There was ample proof for the non-feebleminded before. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #806
Fluke a Snooker, u are way over the top in your unthinking hatred of half the people in this country Hekate Jul 2017 #809
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