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seaglass

(8,185 posts)

128. Correct.

Reply to David__77 (Reply #126)

Sun Jul 9, 2017, 12:34 PM

Jul 2017

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9300478

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There are better ways to stop third-party presidential voting- [View all] Ken Burch Jul 2017 OP

Why do you start defining position with "besides screaming at people"? Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #1

Good point. I've changed that line now. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #3

Maybe multiple threads calling out why the attacks on the Democratic Party is hurting us. pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #9

A vote for Nader was a vote for bush and a vote for Stein was a vote for Trump Gothmog Jul 2017 #36

well, if the shoe fits... nt TheFrenchRazor Jul 2017 #20

I think we could put punitive taxes on hard alcohol to curry favor with Prohibitionists... brooklynite Jul 2017 #2

As far as I know, they haven't flipped any states aganist us. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #4

How close to the Green Party's purity standard do we need to get? brooklynite Jul 2017 #5

The proposals I laid out in the OP don't force us into that. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #10

1. Coalition politics don't exist in the United States... brooklynite Jul 2017 #17

We haven't had the mechanism for coalition politics in this country. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #25

Yes having ten or more parties works so well for Italy and Israel Gothmog Jul 2017 #66

Sweden and Norway do well with a dozen parties each. New Zealand does well with seven. LanternWaste Jul 2017 #79

This may work in a parliamentary system but the US has an elected POTUS Gothmog Jul 2017 #88

Israel and Italy are exceptions. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #90

How will your proposal get third party voters to not vote for a third party candidate Gothmog Jul 2017 #93

They would do so by giving them an outlet other than voting for a presidential candidate. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #94

If they won't vote for a Dem president now kcr Jul 2017 #96

There is a great deal of magical thinking involved in Ken's proposal Gothmog Jul 2017 #98

Do you really believe this? Gothmog Jul 2017 #97

I live in the real world. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #106

And yet your posts speak for themselves Gothmog Jul 2017 #132

That is simply not true. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #136

Ken-how will your rather sad proposals work in the real world? Gothmog Jul 2017 #137

Every meaningful change that ever happened in tis country was originally said to be unworkable Ken Burch Jul 2017 #138

Post removed Post removed Jul 2017 #139

Terribly unfortunate when one side of a debate gets silenced. George II Jul 2017 #141

No one? LovesPNW Aug 2017 #151

Did Ken kick your puppy or something ? KTM Jul 2017 #107

Ken's posts speak for themselves Gothmog Jul 2017 #133

Yes, I've seen how you "know all that you need to know" about Ken KTM Jul 2017 #147

Did you read Ken's silly OP? Gothmog Jul 2017 #134

What is silly is assuming that we can stop third-party presidential voting by berating people for it Ken Burch Jul 2017 #140

Hacking ? Internet ? What are you on about ? KTM Jul 2017 #142

What about the UK...minority conservative rule for years. Multiple parties won't Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #115

That is because the UK has the first-past-the-post system Ken Burch Jul 2017 #119

I believe multiple parties mean minority rule usually conservative rule. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #120

That's not the case in Scandinavia and a lot of other places. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #121

Scandinavia has cut benefits lately and if you were addicted to their mysteries as I am (and TV Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #123

It is a terrible idea. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #76

In most states that is Bettie Jul 2017 #80

That is untrue...in 08, we had it all. And we need to get to work and work within the system to Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #86

So, how do you propose to entirely eliminate third parties? Bettie Jul 2017 #87

you can't eliminate stupidity...those who support third parties in a two party system are stupid... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #116

Winning elections. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #91

Well, if you have a magic wand to make that suddenly happen Bettie Jul 2017 #102

We have to keep trying...and in order to end the gerrymander win states. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #103

Given that we are not winning Bettie Jul 2017 #105

If you are going for state elections which we need to do...you need to Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #112

What we have now can only lead to constant conservative rule. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #89

I disagree. And the non-rich can't win elections in the age of United no matter what. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #117

Sure they do. DFW Jul 2017 #135

YES they did...you want to show caring for third parties I don't get it, but whatever... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #55

Strange but prohibition was a plank in the old Progressive movement from the Jim Beard Jul 2017 #16

True. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #26

I agree. It's better to stop third-party voting. MineralMan Jul 2017 #6

We can't just make third-party voting totally stop. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #14

There is a whole branch of the law on Ballot Access Gothmog Jul 2017 #37

So, do you propose to make third parties illegal? Bettie Jul 2017 #84

Of course not. I'd like people to stop voting for third parties MineralMan Jul 2017 #85

Fix your title maxsolomon Jul 2017 #7

Done. Thanks for catching that. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #12

There's already a bill in the House (sponsored by a Democrat) for PR and IRV. DanTex Jul 2017 #8

You don't have to win over Stein...just make common cause with some of her voters. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #11

Do you really believe that this work in the real world? Gothmog Jul 2017 #38

There's actually precedent for it working. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #49

No-do you really believe that there is any chance in the real world that these proposal would pass? Gothmog Jul 2017 #64

Let's see NEVER and NEVER! nt Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #56

These concepts have no chance of being adopted in the real world Gothmog Jul 2017 #67

When hell freezes...I have nothing to say to people who elected Donald Trump who pretend to be Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #77

This is a hail mary type plan to fight gerrymandering. Gothmog Jul 2017 #39

Independent redistricting alone Bettie Jul 2017 #82

And will go exactly nowhere. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #118

then you missing how IRV works. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #129

So #1 is sort of a coalition government at state level? ProudLib72 Jul 2017 #13

Actually yes. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #15

I like it ProudLib72 Jul 2017 #19

I believe this to be a highly inaccurate statement. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #18

Is there anything I could EVER post on this board that you won't automatically oppose? Ken Burch Jul 2017 #24

My point is spot on. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #30

I didn't realize you had recommended any of them. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #31

This reply makes little to no sense. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #34

There WHAT is? Ken Burch Jul 2017 #41

Now you are going straight to Bernie/Clinton. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #42

I have never refought. Not once. I accepted HRC as the nominee and that put that to rest. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #44

Yeah. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #45

Yeah, indeed. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #46

Your reply here is the status quo... NCTraveler Jul 2017 #47

It's not refighting the primaries just to say those names, for God's sakes. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #48

This is an intentional distortion of what is being said. KTM Jul 2017 #108

Not even close. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #114

Sure feels like you just called me a liar there... KTM Jul 2017 #122

Incorrect outside of the first part. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #124

Hmmm KTM Jul 2017 #143

Green riffraff and our revolution won't support us...they are green riffraff because they Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #57

The Greenies and the JPR types hate the Democratic Party and will never help Gothmog Jul 2017 #68

Oh yeah, the same is true by 'our revolution' which exists to bring the Democratic Party down. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #74

agreed; so many dems act as if they are *entitled* to all left-of-center votes, instead of actually TheFrenchRazor Jul 2017 #21

No Democratic candidate has ever said they were 'entitled' to left-of-center votes emulatorloo Jul 2017 #22

The rules on this site...say support Democrats. There are plenty of other sites where you can go to Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #58

Since only those who voted for Hillary in the GE are welcome here, why does it matter if they are seaglass Jul 2017 #23

That's what I see: emotional, untrustworthy, selfish betsuni Jul 2017 #51

i agree, they can't be trusted and i question their views if they voted third party in 2016 JI7 Jul 2017 #53

+10000 Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #59

A vote for Stein was a vote for Trump Gothmog Jul 2017 #69

That cant possibly have come out as intended. KTM Jul 2017 #109

Read it for yourself, you can ask Skinner if he changed his mind. seaglass Jul 2017 #110

Hmm, forgot about that diatribe KTM Jul 2017 #111

I think it's clear as written NastyRiffraff Jul 2017 #144

Sew up that tent door KTM Jul 2017 #145

So you think that people who voted for a monster NastyRiffraff Jul 2017 #149

Those who didn't vote for Clinton aren't welcome here? David__77 Jul 2017 #126

Correct. seaglass Jul 2017 #128

OK, so those who didn't vote for Clinton aren't welcome. David__77 Jul 2017 #130

Right. I guess those who voted for Nader in 2000 or Reagan in 1984 but have since since the error of seaglass Jul 2017 #131

Your thread is a bit bogus. No one here admits R B Garr Jul 2017 #27

yes and those folks should go to other websites. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #60

The idiots on JPR would love the proposals in the OP but they hate the Democratic party Gothmog Jul 2017 #70

Yes it would...they seem to think multiple parties are somehow 'cool'. I had this discussion with Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #73

The BEST way to win voters, generally speaking Nevernose Jul 2017 #28

Thank you. Snackshack Jul 2017 #52

This would be a pretty good petition to start Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #29

Ours has been, and for the foreseeable future will remain, a de facto two-party system. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2017 #32

IMO, 3rd party vote is an excuse for those that can't make a decision. CK_John Jul 2017 #33

Didn't third party voting affect Trump more than Clinton? MichMan Jul 2017 #35

That's not clear. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #50

Yes it did affect Democrats more. And Stein took a victory lap a few days ago...bet Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #61

MichMan and I are discussing the effect of Johnson's run. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #71

I do not believe Johnson affected Hillary Clinton. He may have affected down ballot candidates Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #72

Your statement about me and Trump is an absolute lie. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #92

That was not directed at you...it says... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #99

Thanks for the clarification. I was reading your post as a response to mine. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #101

I have no idea about libertarians...they are worse than the GOP in some ways...as for Greens. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #104

Are you talking about registered 3rd party people or registered D & R's who voted 3rd party? nt fleabiscuit Aug 2017 #152

Most of the proposals in the OP confirms my firm opinion as to why I enjoy living in the real world Gothmog Jul 2017 #40

I've proved I live in the real world. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #43

Your posts speak for themselves Gothmog Jul 2017 #65

EXCELLENT reply. Excellent analysis from someone with real world experience... NurseJackie Jul 2017 #62

We don't make laws or have the power wasupaloopa Jul 2017 #54

Any 3rd Party Voters who Don't understand a "Binery Choice" are Doomed louis c Jul 2017 #63

That is how I feel. I read a poster who said she hated Greens with the power of 1000 burning suns.. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #75

They are people who have decided their egos BainsBane Jul 2017 #146

Who specifically is arguing that simply demanding people vote one way or another is effective? LanternWaste Jul 2017 #78

And after bending over backwards to do those four things Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #81

There is ALWAYS going to be "third party voting" ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #83

Exactly right. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #100

"Do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good" lapucelle Jul 2017 #95

The things you suggest cannot happen. And it would be a bad idea to encourage third parties. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #113

I agree! How many elections must they fuck up for us before we start coddling them? Orrex Jul 2017 #125

What the US needs is a reform of the election-system and MORE THIRD PARTIES. DetlefK Jul 2017 #127

How exactly do you do this part... Lee-Lee Jul 2017 #148

This message was self-deleted by its author HopeAgain Aug 2017 #150