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The Velveteen Ocelot

(130,696 posts)

3. People want an immediate, dramatic fix.

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 02:42 PM

Jul 2017

And I, too, would like Trump to go away sooner rather than later. But there's no way to make it happen quickly unless unconstitutional, and therefore illegal, methods are employed. It seems like there are an awful lot of people who don't know much about how our system of government works, and what can and can't be done. If we want to do what the Trump administration is doing - that is, disregard the Constitution - I suppose some sort of coup could be organized, but then we're just another banana republic. A lot of energy is expended accusing Trump et al. of violating the law and the Constitution, and yes, they are doing that. But if we start insisting on throwing Trump out of office in a way not involving impeachment or the 25th Amendment, and installing Hillary in his stead, aren't we advocating the same thing?

Of course, voting is the only other way - but part of that has to be to be sure there's no more hacking. And I do worry about that.

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The Genuine Constitutional Remedy for a Fraudulent Election [View all] MineralMan Jul 2017 OP

Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors is still a Constitutional option exboyfil Jul 2017 #1

That is true, but it is extremely unlikely with Republicans in control MineralMan Jul 2017 #2

Even if it happened it wouldn't help. Scruffy1 Jul 2017 #59

Exactly which is why we need to focus on what we can actually do vs what we dream about doing and cstanleytech Jul 2017 #72

True. Ligyron Jul 2017 #78

That is correct. We still need to win in 2018 and 2020. MineralMan Jul 2017 #104

There is no bottom... charliea Jul 2017 #112

You left out the "stealing the election" part. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2017 #79

There was no media at the Trump-Putin meeting. former9thward Jul 2017 #89

Obviously the Republicans know this and have been gearing up for massive voter Dustlawyer Jul 2017 #101

Removal From Office Cheviteau Jul 2017 #111

People want an immediate, dramatic fix. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #3

Our best hope is that Trump resigns under pressure MineralMan Jul 2017 #4

Under pressure or out of crippling humiliation. Either works for me. Orrex Jul 2017 #7

He would have to have a conscience to resign over humiliation and he has proven he lacks that. nt cstanleytech Jul 2017 #73

People apparently can't handle the reality of the situation... Wounded Bear Jul 2017 #5

I suppose. People who can't handle reality MineralMan Jul 2017 #8

People who can't handle reality... Wounded Bear Jul 2017 #22

Indeed that is true in many cases. MineralMan Jul 2017 #25

Would it also require a Constitutional right to vote? loyalsister Jul 2017 #20

You do raise an interesting question... Wounded Bear Jul 2017 #28

It would seem that it would be implied when there are Amendments that forbid interference loyalsister Jul 2017 #53

Actually, there are amendments that affirm MineralMan Jul 2017 #29

Not explicitly loyalsister Jul 2017 #55

It is utter bullshit that a party can steal an election and remain in power. we can do it Jul 2017 #6

Bullshit, yes...that's why we have regular elections. MineralMan Jul 2017 #9

What an arrogant reply. we can do it Jul 2017 #12

Truth can seem arrogant at times... Wounded Bear Jul 2017 #30

No need being a dick to those on your side. we can do it Jul 2017 #42

i agree this response is over the line. mopinko Jul 2017 #16

Organizing, is a frustrating proposition. MiddleClass Jul 2017 #33

What should the remedy be? The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #10

I realize no do over, but it should not just be business as usual. we can do it Jul 2017 #14

There is no business of government that is not "business as usual." MineralMan Jul 2017 #15

Agreed. If there was collusion with a foreign government to steal the election, the results should politicaljunkie41910 Jul 2017 #27

"If the Republicans had any integrity..." That pretty well says it all. TryLogic Jul 2017 #35

This is exactly the way the forefathers designed it to be hard MiddleClass Jul 2017 #48

If crimes were committed putting people in office, any actions by that person should be nullified. we can do it Jul 2017 #49

When crimes are proven, we will find ourselves in a constitutional crisis MiddleClass Jul 2017 #62

Agree. Same here. Amendments will be necessary if we still have rule of law. we can do it Jul 2017 #70

Also, in line with the Constitution let's up the number of House members to accurately reflect... Hugin Jul 2017 #11

See, all good ideas. But, we'll have to start by MineralMan Jul 2017 #17

It irks me that Chipper Chat Jul 2017 #69

The Constitution says only this: The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #24

Yes, I checked on that also. Hugin Jul 2017 #66

There is less variation in the number of persons per representative than you might think onenote Jul 2017 #84

Yes, the cost of elections would skyrocket... Hugin Jul 2017 #93

We are screwed if Ginsburg and Breyer retire. Wiseman32218 Jul 2017 #57

Whining is easy. The work it takes to win elections is real work Lee-Lee Jul 2017 #13

Indeed, you're right about that. MineralMan Jul 2017 #18

How many hours do YOU devote to making it work? Some of us have actually volunteered full time. we can do it Jul 2017 #44

I do more than most Lee-Lee Jul 2017 #74

Fix the damn voting machines and make gerrymandering illegal. Initech Jul 2017 #19

After we win control of Congress, state legislatures and MineralMan Jul 2017 #26

How exactly does one do that with gerrymandering and hacked machines and courts stacked? we can do it Jul 2017 #50

Excuses. onenote Jul 2017 #86

some people continue to deny the obvious. nt TheFrenchRazor Jul 2017 #95

Yes, and they are often quite vocal. we can do it Jul 2017 #102

Not to mention blatant voter suppression. we can do it Jul 2017 #103

IMO/ FWIW: elections are the remedy for ineffective or unpopular representation MedusaX Jul 2017 #21

The SCOTUS will stick to the Constitution on this. MineralMan Jul 2017 #23

Just like with Gore vs Bush. we can do it Jul 2017 #45

The Constitution was purposefully written in such a way that future events could be effectively MedusaX Jul 2017 #56

It's not illegal per se for a foreign govt to attempt to "influence" the outcome of a US election onenote Jul 2017 #85

Thanks. That's exactly what I say when people start babbling about term limits. We have them already Hekate Jul 2017 #31

Unless Russian meddling is obliterated, AND electronic voting made unhackable, I can already predict BamaRefugee Jul 2017 #32

Exactly.... the_sly_pig Jul 2017 #36

as we type BamaRefugee Jul 2017 #41

yep; get ready for a lot of dems to act shocked and surprised; it's getting old. nt TheFrenchRazor Jul 2017 #96

I opened this thread ready to argue SCantiGOP Jul 2017 #34

They've already taken care of that "remedy" Dopers_Greed Jul 2017 #37

Republicans can barely stand with Trump on ACA repeal and AHCA passage bucolic_frolic Jul 2017 #38

Oh we'll vote for sure broadcaster90210 Jul 2017 #39

I love Nancy Pelosi, but would she do anything? Ilsa Jul 2017 #40

"Doing anything is off the table"? Please, God, no. n/t BamaRefugee Jul 2017 #43

Yeah, remember 11 years ago? Ilsa Jul 2017 #47

Yes. And that is when Republicans knew they could BamaRefugee Jul 2017 #51

I was so disappointed, but understood MiddleClass Jul 2017 #58

But what if you want what is right, Constitutionally? BamaRefugee Jul 2017 #65

Unfortunately, the only way to solve what is right, is the majority vote MiddleClass Jul 2017 #90

I doubt she would repeat that mistake. cab67 Jul 2017 #77

I know, it's apples and oranges. nt Ilsa Jul 2017 #83

Dream, Dream, Dream! Podkayne K Jul 2017 #46

I'm under no assumption at all. MineralMan Jul 2017 #100

Hear, hear! Louis1895 Jul 2017 #52

If criminal offenses have been committed by the POTUS, hadEnuf Jul 2017 #54

And impeachment, which is the other constitutional remedy, as people have noted. Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #60

The urgency is much greater than anyone thinks... Moostache Jul 2017 #61

Let's figure out how to, and create a national partisan wave MiddleClass Jul 2017 #67

What. He. Said. (nt) B Stieg Jul 2017 #63

It's because people fear the damage that will be done . . . MrModerate Jul 2017 #64

Suppose the position of the two parties were reversed... First Speaker Jul 2017 #68

Last time the Republicans tried to remove a Democratic president through impeachment... cab67 Jul 2017 #76

I agree that impeachment is very unlikely at present... cab67 Jul 2017 #71

You're kidding right? woundedkarma Jul 2017 #75

If my nephew's organs start to fail, he won't have until 2018 ck4829 Jul 2017 #80

I agree with MineralMan tiredtoo Jul 2017 #81

Where in the Constitution? A link? nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2017 #82

kind of hard to vote out what you didn't vote for in the first place 0rganism Jul 2017 #87

there should be a way to have a recall election. Takket Jul 2017 #88

How would it work? onenote Jul 2017 #92

Perhaps, but there is not such a way. MineralMan Jul 2017 #108

I don't know about that, really Spider Jerusalem Jul 2017 #91

There is no such amendment under consideration, as MineralMan Jul 2017 #107

that "remedy" is no remedy at all, if the elections are rigged. there needs to be a better solution. TheFrenchRazor Jul 2017 #94

Why do people assume that there is a better solution, just because there "needs" to be? BzaDem Jul 2017 #97

Agree, not having a contingency plan is the same as not having a plan ck4829 Jul 2017 #98

I take it that your position is that elections were first rigged in 2014 onenote Jul 2017 #99

Bullshit! - nt KingCharlemagne Jul 2017 #105

Brief and to the point, eh? MineralMan Jul 2017 #106

The masses in their collective wisdom can rise up and overthrow your KingCharlemagne Jul 2017 #113

All righty then. MineralMan Jul 2017 #114

Ironic that you posted your pablum the same week as KingCharlemagne Jul 2017 #115

Actually, it's not ironic at all. MineralMan Jul 2017 #116

that only works if our electoral system has not been destroyed, tampered with, "fixed" niyad Jul 2017 #109

It's none of those things in my state. MineralMan Jul 2017 #110