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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:10 AM Dec 2011

Glenn Greenwald: What the Supreme Court got right (Flashback) [View all]

What the Supreme Court got right

By Glenn Greenwald

The Supreme Court yesterday, in a 5-4 decision, declared unconstitutional (on First Amendment grounds) campaign finance regulations which restrict the ability of corporations and unions to use funds from their general treasury for “electioneering” purposes. The case, Citizens United v. FEC, presents some very difficult free speech questions, and I’m deeply ambivalent about the court’s ruling. There are several dubious aspects of the majority’s opinion (principally its decision to invalidate the entire campaign finance scheme rather than exercising ”judicial restraint” through a narrower holding). Beyond that, I believe that corporate influence over our political process is easily one of the top sicknesses afflicting our political culture. But there are also very real First Amendment interests implicated by laws which bar entities from spending money to express political viewpoints.


I want to begin by examining several of the most common reactions among critics of this decision, none of which seems persuasive to me. Critics emphasize that the Court’s ruling will produce very bad outcomes: primarily that it will severely exacerbate the problem of corporate influence in our democracy. Even if this is true, it’s not really relevant. Either the First Amendment allows these speech restrictions or it doesn’t. In general, a law that violates the Constitution can’t be upheld because the law produces good outcomes (or because its invalidation would produce bad outcomes).

One of the central lessons of the Bush era should have been that illegal or unconstitutional actions — warrantless eavesdropping, torture, unilateral Presidential programs — can’t be justified because of the allegedly good results they produce (Protecting us from the Terrorists). The “rule of law” means we faithfully apply it in ways that produce outcomes we like and outcomes we don’t like. Denouncing court rulings because they invalidate laws one likes is what the Right often does (see how they reflexively and immediately protest every state court ruling invaliding opposite-sex-only marriage laws without bothering to even read about the binding precedents), and that behavior is irrational in the extreme. If the Constitution or other laws bar the government action in question, then that’s the end of the inquiry; whether those actions produce good results is really not germane. Thus, those who want to object to the Court’s ruling need to do so on First Amendment grounds. Except to the extent that some constitutional rights give way to so-called “compelling state interests,” that the Court’s decision will produce “bad results” is not really an argument.

<...>

I’m also quite skeptical of the apocalyptic claims about how this decision will radically transform and subvert our democracy by empowering corporate control over the political process. My skepticism is due to one principal fact: I really don’t see how things can get much worse in that regard. The reality is that our political institutions are already completely beholden to and controlled by large corporate interests (Dick Durbin: ”banks own” the Congress). Corporations find endless ways to circumvent current restrictions — their armies of PACs, lobbyists, media control, and revolving-door rewards flood Washington and currently ensure their stranglehold — and while this decision will make things marginally worse, I can’t imagine how it could worsen fundamentally. All of the hand-wringing sounds to me like someone expressing serious worry that a new law in North Korea will make the country more tyrannical. There’s not much room for our corporatist political system to get more corporatist. Does anyone believe that the ability of corporations to influence our political process was meaningfully limited before yesterday’s issuance of this ruling?

http://www.salon.com/2010/01/22/citizens_united/

Anyone agree with this and support this ruling?

78 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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wtf??? FrenchieCat Dec 2011 #1
I'm running low on free speech BootinUp Dec 2011 #6
Well, if you are going to restrict the rights of corps. Then you are saying that Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #18
You don't have to agree with everything someone says to agree with them in general slay Dec 2011 #2
Say that to those of us who are bashed for supporting the President. n/t vaberella Dec 2011 #54
I read that recently and went "Yikes!" Spazito Dec 2011 #3
+ AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #10
Yeah, I think that that's a "holy shit" statement, right there. TheWraith Dec 2011 #67
No. a) Spending isn't speech. I can't buy pot on free speech grounds. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2011 #4
So unions, Planned Parenthood, NOW and the ACLU (all incorporated) Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #21
Not banned, regulated. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2011 #63
GG for the Supreme Court! BootinUp Dec 2011 #5
We are entitled to the best speech money will buy! killbotfactory Dec 2011 #7
Well, union money buys ads. And unions are incorprated. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #22
I would rather they spend their resources unionizing killbotfactory Dec 2011 #24
What about the ACLU, NOW, Planned Parenthood, the Sierra Club and a host of other Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #26
Are you really arguing that it's either Citizens United or no advocacy at all? killbotfactory Dec 2011 #29
Actually, that was precisely the issue at hand and that is why the ACLU Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #30
Did you read the brief submitted by the ACLU? Spazito Dec 2011 #40
Yes. I have read it and their subsequent response. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #45
Could you provide me with a link to their response on the decision.... Spazito Dec 2011 #49
I was forced to seriously think about it a2liberal Dec 2011 #8
How can anything that gives more power to those with the most money BootinUp Dec 2011 #9
Together unions represent the largest coffers of any organizations. joshcryer Dec 2011 #13
See my reply to spazito (n/t) a2liberal Dec 2011 #16
The thing is.... Spazito Dec 2011 #11
I'd like to see them try to outspend the unions, to be honest. joshcryer Dec 2011 #14
Oh, there is no doubt they can and will outspend the unions... Spazito Dec 2011 #19
I don't see how, they make better progress in lobbying. joshcryer Dec 2011 #23
It is not the lobbying rules that were changed, it was much greater than that... Spazito Dec 2011 #25
I know. I'm saying that political sway is not made by electing candidates. joshcryer Dec 2011 #27
The REAL money is spent on the Congressional candidates... Spazito Dec 2011 #31
I don't think I have a chance at convincing you otherwise. joshcryer Dec 2011 #34
I did go to the links you provided, I hope you also went to the one I provided... Spazito Dec 2011 #37
Except unions and nearly every other advocacy group is incorprated. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #28
Leaving the status quo, shut down neither.... Spazito Dec 2011 #33
And when you shut down Citizens United you also shut down Planned Parenthood. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #36
Again, the status quo shut down no one... Spazito Dec 2011 #39
The status quo was restricted speech for advocacy. The decision handed unions, Planned Parenthood Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #42
The status quo didn't bar them, it just limited them from unduly.... Spazito Dec 2011 #46
Yeah you're right a2liberal Dec 2011 #15
I thought your response was very thoughtful... Spazito Dec 2011 #17
Thanks! (n/t) a2liberal Dec 2011 #53
Very well said, Spazito. And thanks for the link! nt tpsbmam Jan 2012 #77
Why don't you use your own mind and think for yourself? vaberella Dec 2011 #55
I never said I was forced to support it a2liberal Dec 2011 #57
Oh I respect people's opinion and value some more than others. vaberella Jan 2012 #68
I still think you misunderstood my post (n/t) a2liberal Jan 2012 #76
I actually do agree with the ruling and with Greenwald's assessment here. joshcryer Dec 2011 #12
Maybe he was wrong on this one quinnox Dec 2011 #20
He got the first paragraph right. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #32
I really do not see where he claims money = speech. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #35
This ... LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #41
My next door neighbor who is on SSI has access to a lot less money Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #43
I think equating money with speech was long-established precedent cthulu2016 Dec 2011 #38
I know it is long-established. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #44
I LOVE Mic Check! Spazito Dec 2011 #47
You ProSense Dec 2011 #48
You do criticize on point, very often. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #52
Fascinating! ProSense Dec 2011 #61
The support by Greenwald, the ACLU, Eliot Spitzer, and others was not unconditional. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #50
Is Greenwald up for the 'two minutes of hate' today? girl gone mad Dec 2011 #51
A few days now. Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #78
Hilarious. Union Scribe Dec 2011 #56
DU needs a Glen Greenwald Group (GGG) JoePhilly Dec 2011 #58
It is readily apparent that Greenwald has no legal training. His arguments are based Romulox Dec 2011 #59
Excellent point. ProSense Dec 2011 #64
To OP: Have you ever said, "I agree with Greenwald on X or Y article"? Weisbergkevin Dec 2011 #60
I suspect ProSense Dec 2011 #62
K&R Bobbie Jo Dec 2011 #65
Kick! n/t ProSense Dec 2011 #66
I think many would disagree. Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #69
Isn't ProSense Jan 2012 #70
... Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #74
Happy New Year! n/t ProSense Jan 2012 #75
Kick. Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #71
So ProSense Jan 2012 #72
Nope! Not conflicted anymore! I'm bright and shiny! Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #73
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