General Discussion

freshwest

(53,661 posts)

88. As in Europe? When they say, paid nothing, that's not true, their income taxes are higher.

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 04:16 PM

Jul 2012

They already paid in to have their health care delivered the way it is, and distributed equally, so it's no wonder that they don't pay twice whem getting the return on their investment, their government. We don't have a spirit of brotherhood in this country, a belief in common needs as the generation that sufffered total devastation in Europe post WW2. That is what began their health care system, they felt obligated to pay. Americans regard government as evil and taxes as punishment, not the cost of maintaining a civilized nation. In that way, we are thinking that rebelling against the good is wrong, and act selfish and childish, not as mature as Europeans do.

Those with less, don't want to pay anything because their wages are so low to begin with. Those with a little more, demand to get refunds, exemptions, waivers, vouchers, deductions, to try to not pay. Those with the most money either pay when they feel like it, the tax code being what it is so that they can hold onto their money unlike the first and second groups, who pay payroll deductions up front and don't have the money in their hands all year. The majority of the rich work the system to not only pay nothing, but get their sources of revenue enriched with tax dollars from the other groups.

The solution? We need to vote like our lives depended on it and be willing to see our money go to people and things that don't give usany return personally. Accept the possibillty like many in Europe that we will not become rich, but will live well in a certain space in society, with dignity and respect, but smaller than Americans demand. That's what the people in social democracies do.

They fight and squabble as much as we do, but believe some things are necessary for the good of their society. I don't see any unity in this country in regards to that. So I don't think my 'solution' is going to happen any time soon. The GOP and the monied groups are organized and forgive each other for everything. We shred each other and kick and scream.

BTW, that is not a direct response to you personally. It's a general rant. Welcome to DU.

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Havnt posted on DU in years... But dammit I have an insurance rant... [View all] bunnies Jul 2012 OP

righteous rant. barbtries Jul 2012 #1

Used to be "only the strong survive" bunnies Jul 2012 #6

Have you looked into these Health Exchanges? aggiesal Jul 2012 #95

It appears that my state, NH, wants to ban them. bunnies Jul 2012 #113

They can not ban the exchange. obxhead Jul 2012 #150

K&R - Good rant. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #2

it's time for Medicare For All riverwalker Jul 2012 #3

Yeah that is cool to say "Medicare For All" all the time, but it would never pass Congress krawhitham Jul 2012 #135

This must be done. It must be. A top priority. nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #139

Vote a straight Democratic ballot, you'll be happy again! xtraxritical Jul 2012 #161

And thanks to ACA you HAVE TO BUY IT. Indydem Jul 2012 #4

"Single Payer. Now." Melissa G Jul 2012 #10

And then theres that. bunnies Jul 2012 #11

In 2014, I believe low- to middle-income people will receive subsidies JDPriestly Jul 2012 #19

Separating insurance co's from profit... bunnies Jul 2012 #52

Yes. I believe that help is supposed to be PotatoChip Jul 2012 #155

If you are a low wage earner you should qualify for subsidized health insurance. notadmblnd Jul 2012 #99

Actually, ProSense Jul 2012 #12

Since the cost of the coverage is more than a third of my yearly gross... bunnies Jul 2012 #16

It sounds like you would be eligible for a subsidy to help with paying for insurance under the ACA rox63 Jul 2012 #37

I really hope so. bunnies Jul 2012 #65

Seems the responses are "hold on, don't get sick, don't break any bones, don't need any health sad sally Jul 2012 #123

But you should Sekhmets Daughter Jul 2012 #128

As long as you do not ilve in a Repug state which refuses Medicaid coverage dixiegrrrrl Jul 2012 #21

yeah, until something is done about that little wrinkle justabob Jul 2012 #25

It's called ProSense Jul 2012 #30

After the hospital lobby gets done with the Republican Fawke Em Jul 2012 #64

I'm on Medicare so I'm sort of out of the loop virgogal Jul 2012 #29

Same here. I am also on Medicare and only pay $110 a month. RebelOne Jul 2012 #70

Some of us can't afford that. Or 'only $200 a month' Mimosa Jul 2012 #73

Mimosa, I am so sorry. I had no idea! sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #148

Thank you, Sabrina Mimosa Jul 2012 #168

Except families making up to 400% of FPL will receive subsidies on their sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #36

thanks for saying that! handmade34 Jul 2012 #74

I don't think anyone here believes that. enlightenment Jul 2012 #94

Then please explain exactly how you envision single payer to be paid for. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #100

That's easy - Canadian model. Sales tax. Edweird Jul 2012 #109

Good grief. enlightenment Jul 2012 #120

It will be free in the same sense that public schools are free and the roads are free. BlueCheese Jul 2012 #103

At what rate? How much are you willing to pay? 50% of your income? sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #104

I'm not sure I understand the point of your question. BlueCheese Jul 2012 #114

No person under ACA will pay 50% of their income for premiums. Please see sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #124

Oh yeah - those horrible Socialist hell-holes. Edweird Jul 2012 #127

US per capita health care costs are the highest in the world.. Fumesucker Jul 2012 #129

Thanks for the info. BlueCheese Jul 2012 #130

Who on DU has said they think single payer would be free? kiva Jul 2012 #108

Don't know who. I asked a question. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #111

Then maybe you should take your question kiva Jul 2012 #118

Funny that the person to whom the question was addressed never responded. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #121

Maybe they think that right wing accusations kiva Jul 2012 #125

In the U.K. Sekhmets Daughter Jul 2012 #126

UK's health care is paid by collection of the NIC based on income. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #165

Single payer will be the same as it is in every other civilized country where no one sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #149

Apparently you did not follow the conversation. I asked that question to the sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #159

No, the tea-party and right wing talking points include accusing Democrats of being so stupid sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #162

Did not imply any such thing. I was rebutting the cry and hue that's been sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #164

I agree wholeheartedly with you mercymechap Jul 2012 #66

not true handmade34 Jul 2012 #72

yes, but with a cap of 8% of your income, which is better than the offered 50%. firehorse Jul 2012 #78

None of you know how grateful I am to no longer feel very alone! turtlerescue1 Jul 2012 #106

Not exactly. Thanks to ACA this individual should be able to someday have harun Jul 2012 #137

The ACA is targeting to help people just like the OP. The working poor. Subsidized health ins. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #140

sometimes America is just plain embarrassing renate Jul 2012 #5

Barbaric is exactly right. bunnies Jul 2012 #8

Excellent Rant! Melissa G Jul 2012 #7

Its just. not. right. progressoid Jul 2012 #9

When I worked for the state littlewolf Jul 2012 #13

I just turned down my company's policy.. tridim Jul 2012 #14

Thank you. It does drive home the point about the uninsured by choice. Liberal Veteran Jul 2012 #15

The point of the ACA is that in 2014 low-income people will get subsidies, JDPriestly Jul 2012 #22

I agree with you about non-profits. I suspect the for-profits will get out of the market pnwmom Jul 2012 #33

"Do you think doctors and nurses should work for free?" - That is a red herring. Edweird Jul 2012 #41

The ACA requires insurance companies to spend 80% of premiums JDPriestly Jul 2012 #112

That's nothing more than an incentive to elevate healthcare costs more. Edweird Jul 2012 #119

Absolutely not. I think that if a dr must charge $50 dollars for a papsmear. Liberal Veteran Jul 2012 #59

Yes. I would like the simple system we had in Europe -- single payer. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #116

How we those subsidies be issued? Mimosa Jul 2012 #75

They're administered by the insurance exchange. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #97

Thanks for the info. Mimosa Jul 2012 #115

Tax credits only help the rich. Right, Mimosa. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #117

And yet people still tell me there are no stupid questions.. LanternWaste Jul 2012 #163

If you don't buy insurance, there are four alternatives: JDPriestly Jul 2012 #166

exactly. bunnies Jul 2012 #23

It's not right. Have you looked into raising the deductable? Auggie Jul 2012 #17

We dont get that option. bunnies Jul 2012 #26

That's terrible Auggie Jul 2012 #28

Health care costs a lot of money. Hopefully, beginning in 2014, JDPriestly Jul 2012 #18

But I dont have insurance. bunnies Jul 2012 #31

Remember, Insurance is not equal to Health Care. Just because you have insurance harun Jul 2012 #138

Bingo. My deductible is so high, I've declined tests I need but can't afford. Liberty Belle Jul 2012 #151

The ACA will subsidize ins. coverage for the working poor, which is what sounds like you are. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #141

kr HiPointDem Jul 2012 #20

We're in a similar position... Ron Obvious Jul 2012 #24

I remember 20 years ago... bunnies Jul 2012 #35

Yep, BCBS for us as well. Ron Obvious Jul 2012 #47

..... BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2012 #27

The Obamacare Solution: You just need the government to FORCE you to buy that insurance. Abra Jul 2012 #32

Do you ProSense Jul 2012 #34

I do not think they care, but they damn well should Abra Jul 2012 #69

Actually, ProSense Jul 2012 #98

Please enlighten us with your solution to the high cost of medical care? sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #40

Single Payer Abra Jul 2012 #56

And do you expect that to be 'no cost' to you? How would you pay for it? sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #61

Nope Abra Jul 2012 #80

Then I suggest you put aside about $500K-$1million for your healthcare. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #81

As in Europe? When they say, paid nothing, that's not true, their income taxes are higher. freshwest Jul 2012 #88

Great post! I could not agree more. Abra Jul 2012 #96

Link? BumRushDaShow Jul 2012 #43

To? Abra Jul 2012 #71

What you posted wasn't a link to the section in the law BumRushDaShow Jul 2012 #79

Great! You have the link. Post any example of an inaccuracy in anything I said. Abra Jul 2012 #82

You obviously didn't bother to go to the link BumRushDaShow Jul 2012 #102

-cadabra SoCalDem Jul 2012 #107

Well, the lies an disinformation about ACA are flying. Wonder what we will hear next? nt nanabugg Jul 2012 #38

My post isnt about the ACA. bunnies Jul 2012 #42

Either you posted in the wrong thread or your reading comprehension is extremely low. Edweird Jul 2012 #51

We'll likely hear some bullying from someone calling the posters liars just1voice Jul 2012 #55

Get a 2nd job! ErikJ Jul 2012 #39

good point. bunnies Jul 2012 #45

Totally righteous rant - I could rant as well GoneOffShore Jul 2012 #44

It infuriates me that we have been conditioned to think bunnies Jul 2012 #48

thank you and yes she's fine. GoneOffShore Jul 2012 #49

Bunnies, we all know that insurance premium costs are extremely high. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #54

Youre correct. And its ridiculous! bunnies Jul 2012 #60

I've said it all along Skittles Jul 2012 #46

But don't worry, if a slew of unknowns workout it'll cost a little less years from now, LOL just1voice Jul 2012 #50

I'm Starting to Get Nervous About Obamacare Implemention ---should I be? NoMittens Jul 2012 #53

Fear not if you are a person of average (or lower) means. Roselma Jul 2012 #58

Tax credit? Mimosa Jul 2012 #93

Officially, it's a tax credit. In practice, it's a discount on the cost of coverage. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #101

Oh....if only you can hang in there until 2014. Roselma Jul 2012 #57

The only sure thing the 'Affordable Care Act' does is guarantee profits for insurance corporations Mimosa Jul 2012 #84

Is that the only plan offered by your employer? frazzled Jul 2012 #62

unfortunately, yes. bunnies Jul 2012 #67

Sounds like your employer is getting a kickback. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #132

I'm just wondering....... mercymechap Jul 2012 #63

Ive been wondering the same thing all day. nt bunnies Jul 2012 #68

Well yeah, but... Scuba Jul 2012 #76

Maybe I should buy this shit insurance anyway... bunnies Jul 2012 #87

If your employer offers insurance you do not qualify for anything Steerpike Jul 2012 #77

These vultures are trying to sap me for nearly 50% of my net income. bunnies Jul 2012 #85

You may be helped by Rmoneycare when it kicks in. mysuzuki2 Jul 2012 #83

Insurance billky Jul 2012 #86

This wasnt meant to be about the future or the ACA... bunnies Jul 2012 #91

When I think healthcare I think Heritage/GOP/Insurance Industry Abra Jul 2012 #89

You pay all that BEFORE you get any care. dkf Jul 2012 #90

exactly. bunnies Jul 2012 #92

What we need is a reasonable catastrophic policy and access to cash for service. dkf Jul 2012 #146

I can explain this NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #105

Your boss may profit from your premium. Festivito Jul 2012 #110

huh. Ya know? I wouldnt be surprised. bunnies Jul 2012 #122

Insurer might charge more than needed on purpose. Festivito Jul 2012 #134

I think the healthcare cost is tax deductible for employers. I think. nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #142

I think they get to use pre-tax dollars to buy it. Festivito Jul 2012 #156

K & R Omaha Steve Jul 2012 #131

Don't agree "my employer pays nearly half." That half is really yours in any economic or cost jody Jul 2012 #133

it could also be increasing profits by the same amount Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #136

So you're saying the cost of the coverage is over $16,000/yr for employee and spouse? Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #143

the 8k is my half of the premium. correct. bunnies Jul 2012 #153

Here's a policy for the two of you for $384/mo. www.healthcare.gov Lumenos H S A. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #167

Good rant and I am sorry to hear Meiko Jul 2012 #144

The whole point of the ACA is the government would subsidize you treestar Jul 2012 #145

Bunnies, do you have a checking account or other type of bank account? colorado_ufo Jul 2012 #147

come to think of it, they DO give me life insurance free with my account... bunnies Jul 2012 #154

Free Ride for now my sister .. the system sucks proud patriot Jul 2012 #152

Great rant! Hope things start turning brighter. raouldukelives Jul 2012 #157

The system is irrevocably broken, and not just the HC system. Zorra Jul 2012 #158

A twisted path to end the disparity? tomtharp Jul 2012 #160