General Discussion

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)

46. If that conclusion is what you took away from it, then that's frankly bizarre

Tue Jul 18, 2017, 04:06 AM

Jul 2017

Let's try it a little more simply..

'Democratic party is the problem' - No, we have lots of problems, ranging from crooked districting, evil opponents who will lie and cheat to win, and an electorate who don't understand politics and don't really care about it. The way our party operates however is A problem and one of the few that we actually have the means to do something about. We've been losing elections at all levels for a while now, and a substantial part of the reason is our own failings. Sure we could pretend otherwise and just whine about fraud and lying GOP and all the rest, but the truth is that the right aimed to sweep up power from the bottom up, and they've been very successful at it. Either we react to that and start building a real strategy to win that power back, or we'll keep losing.

As for Trump voters, I couldn't give a rats ass whether they're good, bad or anything else. Each one of them is a vote, and we need as many votes as we can get. If some former Trump voters will vote Democrat without us heavily compromising our principles (and they will, a lot of them voted for Obama), then refusing to engage with them because you want them to feel bad about their Trump vote is just incredible dumb quite frankly. This is another problem with the party of late, we seem to have forgotten we're trying to win votes, not moral superiority contests.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

108 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Why we need Bernie - like him or not.... [View all] ciaobaby Jul 2017 OP

What??? Eko Jul 2017 #1

Thanks, it's an unsustainable, abstract and completely detached dialogue. R B Garr Jul 2017 #4

Yeah, Eko Jul 2017 #6

Yup, I just made potato salad for the 4th -- corporate mayonaisse, corporate R B Garr Jul 2017 #7

Ben and Jerry's account for a tiny fraction of the corporations in America. progressoid Jul 2017 #24

Then surely you agree Eko Jul 2017 #25

Yes, tiny fraction. progressoid Jul 2017 #30

Well now, Eko Jul 2017 #33

Maybe you could point out some more of them too. progressoid Jul 2017 #39

Blue Bell Ice Cream Corp. people had to die before they cleaned up their manufacturing plant(s). Sunlei Jul 2017 #81

Sure, there were a few nazis who were actually pretty nice people, so we shouldn't demonize nazis.. Kentonio Jul 2017 #45

+1 nt Fresh_Start Jul 2017 #53

But that is an absolute truth... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #9

This from the person Eko Jul 2017 #10

... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #11

I guess maybe Eko Jul 2017 #12

You mean like Amazon, Kaiser Permanente, Boeing Co, Alphabet Inc(Google) snooper2 Jul 2017 #59

Thank you for posting this. nt betsuni Jul 2017 #60

Corporations do not donate to candidates... only employees... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #61

So then the whole schtick about "Wall Street donations" R B Garr Jul 2017 #65

It's important to note... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #68

No, that's not important to note. Look how your R B Garr Jul 2017 #69

No, these are just facts from Open Secrets... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #71

No, insinuating one politician is corrupt and one R B Garr Jul 2017 #73

Nope. No insinuations at all... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #75

So the whole "Wall Street" this and that R B Garr Jul 2017 #82

What "'Wall Street' this and that" are you referring to? Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #83

Lol, of course not. That's why you just posted a link R B Garr Jul 2017 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Jul 2017 #86

Another point is one politician has a huge following while another is almost certainly not pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #72

Exactly. A well-known candidate isn't corrupt just for R B Garr Jul 2017 #74

Yes. This is the challenge. Continually directing to realty. It is very challenging with all the pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #97

I know what you mean. Sometimes you can't even use actual print media, etc. R B Garr Jul 2017 #100

Right. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #101

I especially like how you draw distinctions lacking any relevant difference LanternWaste Jul 2017 #99

Perhaps you have a better explanation for why the dems have lost ciaobaby Jul 2017 #13

3 million more votes for Clinton. Eko Jul 2017 #15

As we all know - unfortunately - we elect the president by the electoral college. ciaobaby Jul 2017 #17

There is a lot to parse there. Eko Jul 2017 #20

I'll give you the gerrymandering issue. ciaobaby Jul 2017 #21

I only dismiss those Eko Jul 2017 #22

We can agree on that. ciaobaby Jul 2017 #23

If that conclusion is what you took away from it, then that's frankly bizarre Kentonio Jul 2017 #46

I agree with you on that. Scruffy1 Jul 2017 #47

And of course, by voting against her radical noodle Jul 2017 #29

maybe the alt-left messaging that speeches to wall street corruption had something to do with it Fresh_Start Jul 2017 #54

Wake me when this board and others realize what is going on here. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #79

Just like during the primaries it will be too late here. :-( n/t seaglass Jul 2017 #96

Facts please: folks whose top concerns are Jobs/Economy voted for HRC emulatorloo Jul 2017 #92

Trump didn't cheat!?!?! WTF!?! YCHDT Jul 2017 #44

He is not a Democrat. This board is dedicated to Democrats and those who support them. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #76

Unless of course you have negative things to say about Sanders. ciaobaby Jul 2017 #78

I cant openly tell the truth about Bernie here, and what he and Thom have done to Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #80

Of course you can tell the "truth" about Bernie ciaobaby Jul 2017 #95

TOS allows for constructive criticism, as you know. If you see something that violates the TOS emulatorloo Jul 2017 #93

If he ran as independent he would have _ruined_ the GENERAL ELECTION for the D party. Sunlei Jul 2017 #84

Like I said, I am not allowed to tell the truth about what is happening and who is doing it. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #87

Not allowed? I love Bernie Sanders, we need to clone that man! Sunlei Jul 2017 #88

Uh huh Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #90

I love Hillary too. They would have won HUGE as Pres & VP. Sunlei Jul 2017 #91

Well, I think in some cases it is obviously true Samantha Jul 2017 #37

+1 nt Fresh_Start Jul 2017 #52

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez . . . . HughBeaumont Jul 2017 #57

The irony of taking political advice from a white male billionaire is not lost on me. VermontKevin Jul 2017 #2

recommended H2O Man Jul 2017 #3

K&R! nt riderinthestorm Jul 2017 #5

How is mayor Heath Mello these days? How about Russ feingold and zephyr teachout? La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #8

Exactly Me. Jul 2017 #19

Or President Hillary Clinton? David__77 Jul 2017 #26

She won the popular vote and the primary La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #51

Hillary lost the vote to Trump in each one of those places as well virtualobserver Jul 2017 #28

But isn't the whole point that this approach appeals to the wwc? La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #50

No, it isn't merely about appealing to the white working class..... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #56

lol quist and mello didn't run with Hillary at the top La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #62

I guess that is why they dramatically outperformed Hillary....LOL virtualobserver Jul 2017 #64

But they didn't win and Mello was antichoice and elevating that La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #67

The attacks on Mello were based on lies from the WSJ and the Washington Post virtualobserver Jul 2017 #70

We don't need Bernie. We need each other! nikibatts Jul 2017 #14

Sanders is HUGE part of the 'each other'... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #16

Absolutely true - if by "we" you include millennials and independents. ciaobaby Jul 2017 #18

Steyer is thinking of running for President rather than run for Governor of California... virtualobserver Jul 2017 #27

This message was self-deleted by its author pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #31

So wait - does that mean if Sanders got the nomination to run against Trump ciaobaby Jul 2017 #34

Sanders doesn't have a chance in hell to win the Democratic nomination. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #35

So you can't answer that one? OK ciaobaby Jul 2017 #41

In 2020 he'll be almost 80. The window has closed on his presidential ambitions. brush Jul 2017 #55

Sanders could not win the Democratic base before and he is further from winning now. pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #66

Not a chance in hell. I don't think the party will stake it's future on someone who used the party Tarheel_Dem Jul 2017 #105

After bashing and trashing. I agree, I am pretty confident it is not gonna happen. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #107

Oh, man Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #32

We need Bernie and yes I like him. Bluepinky Jul 2017 #36

Well said. ciaobaby Jul 2017 #38

Thank you! Bluepinky Jul 2017 #48

Very simplistic. I have worked for a large company of 56K plus and now a small company, less than seaglass Jul 2017 #98

My response was simplistic, just the thoughts of someone without a business or financial background. Bluepinky Jul 2017 #104

I disagree Foamfollower Jul 2017 #40

Absolutely! Lunabell Jul 2017 #42

K&R mvd Jul 2017 #43

We have many great democrats fighting this battle. Nt NCTraveler Jul 2017 #49

Yes. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #94

America HAS Bernie, already. MineralMan Jul 2017 #58

LOL.. no nini Jul 2017 #63

Insurance of ALL types, Dairy, Foods,Medicine,MEAT, and plenty of otherCorporations-are at war vs Sunlei Jul 2017 #77

Bernie's fighting hard in the Senate. Hasn't gone anywhere. I think he will run in 2020 too. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #89

I was a Bernie supporter. Here it is, 7-17. I do not understand lovemydogs Jul 2017 #102

"Billionaire megadonor gets it" Progressive dog Jul 2017 #103

+1. I guess some "billionaires" are more equal than others. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2017 #106

No. We do not. hunter Jul 2017 #108