General Discussion

zipplewrath

(16,698 posts)

162. To what end?

Tue Jul 18, 2017, 02:35 PM

Jul 2017

We saw people screaming "I don't want government health care, and keep your hands off my Medicare". The support to which you refer is fleeting, and often poorly attributed or understood. The point is that we gave up the House after only 2 years to get 7% more people insured, half of which were already qualified for federal government assistance. All of this "support" you see got Trump elected. It gave the Senate to the GOP, and it is filling the states with GOP control. Oh, and Trump got to appoint an SC justice. The party is in the worst shape it's been since reconstruction. This didn't all happen in a single election cycle.

But you don't care, cause you got a "win". You're "impressed". Unfortunately, that's not translating into votes. That's not translating into lower health care costs. The vast majority wasn't impressed and didn't find it to be a BFD. And we are no closer to any sort of single payer/nationalized health CARE than we've been since medicaid was past 60+ years ago.

Like I say, it's about consistency. It's about doing what you said you'd do, or admitting that you fell short. Beating your chest and announcing how impressed you are with yourself is a sure fire way to turn off a HUGE portion of the electorate.

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Democrats See Conservative Blue Dogs as Key to Winning House [View all] yallerdawg Jul 2017 OP

Blue Dogs? atreides1 Jul 2017 #1

If we are getting back in the majority...we have to have a big tent... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #30

I agree. Blue_true Jul 2017 #123

Reality strikes again. Thanks. Hekate Jul 2017 #167

yes, so many say blue dogs cost us single payer...no. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #196

Yes, I have a liberal senator Sherrod Brown... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #197

It's because of blue dogs that we don't have ACTUAL universal healthcare NCDem777 Jul 2017 #188

It is because of blue dogs that we actually have any healthcare...without them we would not have Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #195

Oh joy.... vi5 Jul 2017 #2

Give them everything they want no bottomofthehill Jul 2017 #75

My 'Blue Dog' in 2010 was crucified by Martha Roby (R) for voting for Pelosi as Speaker. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #86

Thank you Hekate Jul 2017 #168

Agreed Gothmog Jul 2017 #178

You mean like the IDC in deep, deep blue New York? vi5 Jul 2017 #101

So the question becomes bottomofthehill Jul 2017 #142

So I guess..... vi5 Jul 2017 #150

In order to have a majority, you must have blue dogs...and they are a millions times better than Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #198

How about running economic populists in those areas? Hell Hath No Fury Jul 2017 #3

Given that the parties are more polarized than ever mythology Jul 2017 #8

These are areas Trump did not do well in. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #31

I don't think a populist could win...Trump didn't win some of those districts. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #70

If a pure polulist economic message had a chance of working it would be in all white Montana Gothmog Jul 2017 #179

So, a shift hard Right is coming Bettie Jul 2017 #4

Actually it does...because I would not call it hard right and we get stuff done... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #79

Do you want Paul Ryan to be speaker in 2019? Gothmog Jul 2017 #181

I don't want Ryan as speaker again Bettie Jul 2017 #182

To beat Ryan, we will have to run Democrats who can win in red States Gothmog Jul 2017 #183

And by the right direction you mean RIGHT Bettie Jul 2017 #184

I live in deep red Texas Gothmog Jul 2017 #185

I said more than once I vote for the Dem Bettie Jul 2017 #186

It is not hard right...we need to recruit candidate that have a chance to win in the states they run Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #199

This Again? Me. Jul 2017 #5

How do you imagine we won the House in 2006? brooklynite Jul 2017 #6

Because W fucked up enough to expose his incompetence. eom. Bad Thoughts Jul 2017 #9

No, we ran moderates in districts moderates could win including Georgia. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #32

You can only win some districts with moderates Gothmog Jul 2017 #42

Usually...I remember in 06 we won several Georgia seats... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #57

This Cosmocat Jul 2017 #149

Some on DU despise bluedogs, despite them having 70%+ of the same political DNA. nt Blue_true Jul 2017 #124

We're back to this 1990's bullshit? Greybnk48 Jul 2017 #7

This is reality if you want a majority. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #34

I'm not moving to the right one more inch. Canada will be my next move Greybnk48 Jul 2017 #111

Right on graybnk!!! rainy Jul 2017 #127

Exactly. TooStrong Jul 2017 #203

If that's the case, why do so many blue dogs get voted out of office in favor of Republicans. tenderfoot Jul 2017 #125

Winning back control of the House is critical to dealing with trump Gothmog Jul 2017 #10

And that is Job #1 bettyellen Jul 2017 #81

There's a name for conservative Democrats. Aristus Jul 2017 #11

I believe it's called the majority party. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #12

The math is clear here Gothmog Jul 2017 #43

It is clear...you have to have moderates to have a majority. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #58

at least they are real democratic party members unlike some lefties who pretend nt msongs Jul 2017 #13

Zap! Hekate Jul 2017 #169

Here's A Good Example Of A Blue Dog Me. Jul 2017 #14

Yes - it is. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #15

So...What? Me. Jul 2017 #16

It's looking like we have! yallerdawg Jul 2017 #17

First Off...I Think You Overstate Your Case On The 2016 Election Me. Jul 2017 #18

Voters in California gave Hillary the popular vote victory. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #21

"To Fix This" Me. Jul 2017 #25

We didn't pay attention? yallerdawg Jul 2017 #29

Your Point? Me. Jul 2017 #47

Most centrist Democrats will say they personally are pro-life... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #51

In Addition... Me. Jul 2017 #20

It's quite clear the tainted election system is out of touch with the People. ck4829 Jul 2017 #160

Yes, that is true but Perriello who signed the Stupak amendment voted for Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #35

Not Quite The Whole Story Me. Jul 2017 #46

I was actually showing how useful Blue dogs are in terms of being in a majority...I didn't think Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #61

However Part Of Your Point Was He Lost Because Of The ACA Me. Jul 2017 #71

Oh he did...the ACA was the issue in 2010...not the cap and trade. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #80

In order to defeat the Republicans we must become the Republicans inwiththenew Jul 2017 #19

A blue dog is not a Republican. There is no doubt that Joe Manchin will not vote for Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #37

I'm so sick of this moving to the right BS! Luciferous Jul 2017 #22

Have you been repeating this since 2010? yallerdawg Jul 2017 #24

I'm sick of losing Sen. Walter Sobchak Jul 2017 #55

I am so sick of losing BS. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #59

So we should basically become Republicans to win? Luciferous Jul 2017 #120

Nope...I don't consider Manchin a Republican ...and from states like WVA that is the sort of Senator Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #156

Does this work? zipplewrath Jul 2017 #23

Agree Me. Jul 2017 #26

It won in answer to Gingrich's "Contract on America." yallerdawg Jul 2017 #27

Not so sure zipplewrath Jul 2017 #28

The Affordable Care Act. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #36

In Montana a centrist candidate won the governor's race in 16 ....while Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #38

Well, we did something zipplewrath Jul 2017 #40

This is our response. "We weren't liberal enough." yallerdawg Jul 2017 #49

We weren't consistent zipplewrath Jul 2017 #52

it is not about that; what it is about is getting what you can...not always exactly Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #65

It's about consistency zipplewrath Jul 2017 #73

It really was a win after more than 100 years to get health care. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #82

It turns off other voters zipplewrath Jul 2017 #128

Not that many or Trumpcare would be law...I am sure that those whining are really 'entitiled' Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #152

To what end? zipplewrath Jul 2017 #162

Now we see them screaming don't touch the ACA...I would say we won the debate... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #163

That is completely true...you need pork to make congress function. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #102

Yes, we were able to get something good done...the ACA has save thousands of lives Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #62

And we lost the House, the Senate, and a bunch of states zipplewrath Jul 2017 #74

I call it worth it...because we saved thousands of lives...I am proud to be in party that did the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #83

History doesn't support your conclusion zipplewrath Jul 2017 #129

I completely disagree...thousand of lives have been saved. I know Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #153

Millions were skipped zipplewrath Jul 2017 #161

It is still way better than before and we could not force medicaid coverage after the SCOTUS vote... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #164

We can't zipplewrath Jul 2017 #165

Anarchists! Green! No, Blue Dogs!!! pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #33

I know ...that is true...if you never tire of losing losing and more losing. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #39

Who never votes with us when the chips are down...but runs to Stein. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #66

Yup... gotta be, until it isn't. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #77

about Blue Dogs DonCoquixote Jul 2017 #41

They will be a minority in the Democratic Party... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #44

well, are they? DonCoquixote Jul 2017 #45

But Isn't Your Point Me. Jul 2017 #48

Of course not! yallerdawg Jul 2017 #54

Not at all. On the food chain they are better than a Repbulican, and that matters now bettyellen Jul 2017 #88

Don't call me for a contribution, DCCC! 50 Shades Of Blue Jul 2017 #50

The Republicans would probably send people who won't give to the DCCC a Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #67

No, they'll send thank you cards to the DCCC for trying to elect D's who vote like R's. 50 Shades Of Blue Jul 2017 #72

No refusing to back the Democrats helps the Republicans in all things ... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #84

I contribute to Democrats who ALWAYS vote like Democrats! 50 Shades Of Blue Jul 2017 #113

You were the one who said the DCCC should not call you. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #154

Manchin is voting against Trump care...and we are struggling to peal off GOP Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #95

Blue Dogs are the key to winning in certain areas (Red States) Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2017 #53

Blue Dogs try to keep us honest, too. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #56

A large problem is that the districts have changed in many cases dsc Jul 2017 #60

Yeah, the problem is national at every level. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #64

There is a court case that could really help with gerrymanders at SCOTUS right now. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #69

Could you imagine if every district every ten years was drawn up... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #97

We would win the majority in the House for sure. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #157

Then after we consistently win the districts for ten years... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #158

You have a Dem governor now. Blue_true Jul 2017 #126

blue dogs leon8822 Jul 2017 #63

Did you ever hear of a Senator called Joe Manchin? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #68

Language Turbineguy Jul 2017 #76

If they were so key then why did they lose in the first place. Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #78

No the Sanders brand of Democrat has never won in sufficient numbers to get stuff done... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #85

They lost in their individual districts by constituents who didn't see value in them anymore Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #87

+1 leftstreet Jul 2017 #96

Oh please, historically the president's Party loses seats in the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #98

This country has moved so far to the rainy Jul 2017 #133

Not Actually So Me. Jul 2017 #143

we've had increased regulations as a result of Democratic backed legislation JHan Jul 2017 #144

Depends on the district and there's more that'll go Blue Dog than for Sanders... nini Jul 2017 #89

It isn't a 180 cycle. It's voting in ones interests. Iff Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #90

You'll never get YOUR interests addressed unless we get a majority back nini Jul 2017 #92

The definition of insanity: Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #94

if you mean running candidates who are not suited for the districts and states they run in, I agree. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #103

Actually I mean running candidates that don't represent Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #110

Come back and talk when you start to understand the big picture nini Jul 2017 #117

I might say the same for you Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #121

Look.. nini Jul 2017 #134

well put...thanks. nt Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #100

No they won't be drawn to a Sanders type candidate in red states...that is just the facts. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #99

The ACA vote killed them with both the GOP and extreme lefties bettyellen Jul 2017 #91

It was a joint effort to in 10 the alt-left (Green riffraf) and the right united Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #201

Yes. I saw some amazing Joy Reid tweets trying to explain this to a young lefty ... bettyellen Jul 2017 #206

I agree!!! rainy Jul 2017 #132

How is mayor Heath Mello these days? How about Russ feingold and zephyr teachout? La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #171

That is not really true...there were always conservadems in congress going back to Roosevelt's time. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #93

They had different names. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #104

That is true and we had solid Democratic Majorities for decades. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #106

And for quite a few of those decades that "solid majority" supported segregation. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #116

They will vote NOT to impeach Trump when the truth comes out Chasstev365 Jul 2017 #105

They will if the charges are serious enough that their constituents will rebel if they do not Samantha Jul 2017 #145

You're right about the money! Chasstev365 Jul 2017 #151

I hate it Bradical79 Jul 2017 #107

It all depends on the particular house district. Freethinker65 Jul 2017 #108

That's why hardly anyone puts rainy Jul 2017 #109

Here's my 2010 'Blue Dog' district. From Wiki! yallerdawg Jul 2017 #119

I'm not sure GaryCnf Jul 2017 #173

During his one term... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #175

I am so inattentive GaryCnf Jul 2017 #176

That does leave open the question GaryCnf Jul 2017 #187

Until 2010, our state regularly elected Democrats... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #189

No doubt 2010 was a disaster GaryCnf Jul 2017 #190

We have had that other way since 2010. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #191

Good points GaryCnf Jul 2017 #192

Trumpism is rubbing off on me! yallerdawg Jul 2017 #193

. . . GaryCnf Jul 2017 #194

If the Dem Party moves center-right/conservative... Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #112

The Democratic Party has to get elected and their were conseradems during Roosevelt's time. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #200

Does the math really support what GaryCnf Jul 2017 #114

I like your use of logic. Welcome to DU. WePurrsevere Jul 2017 #131

Excellent 1st Post Me. Jul 2017 #136

Welcome to DU fleabiscuit Jul 2017 #141

+1 meadowlander Jul 2017 #148

You ignore the elephant in the room...health care. It caused most of the losses and there are Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #155

The elephant isn't being ignored GaryCnf Jul 2017 #170

Well that is the same dumb recipe that has failed for the last ten years. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #115

Of course the Eisenhower Republicans want more of their kind Warpy Jul 2017 #118

It's funny. Eko Jul 2017 #122

Not by promoting anti abortion anti lgbt anti blm sexist homophobic racist horseshit Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #137

Blue dogs Eko Jul 2017 #138

I'll try once more: racist sexist homophobes. And they frequently support Republican economic issues Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #147

People rejected establishment on both sides. snowy owl Jul 2017 #130

Hillary won the popular vote in the GE by 3 million La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #172

If you're so conservative, what did the GOP do wrong that they lost your vote? tenderfoot Jul 2017 #135

I'm passing on an observation. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #139

I believe in a 50 state strategy tammywammy Jul 2017 #140

Somehow logical strategy is accepted in sports but not politics Awsi Dooger Jul 2017 #202

They are absolutely correct. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #146

Probably true loyalsister Jul 2017 #159

"What the Dems haven't done is win all of the swing seats in the country." Good point, actually. Hekate Jul 2017 #166

We are not going to make liberals out of conservatives. yallerdawg Jul 2017 #177

Yep Hekate Jul 2017 #180

Maybe the better question GaryCnf Jul 2017 #174

Blue Dogs made the ACA possible. That is a fact. Lee-Lee Jul 2017 #204

Good observations! yallerdawg Jul 2017 #205