General Discussion

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)

158. I think there is a danger in false equivalency.

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 06:42 PM

Jul 2017

I think that sheer raging against another candidate isn't something that was and is even nearly equal on both "sides."

If you are saying that a candidate is not the one who should be addressing misinformation being spread by their supporters, even one that they are not "endorsing," I suggest that you read this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/this-dem-asked-a-pac-to-drop-its-plans-to-tar-his-rival/2017/06/07/5155efcc-4bf9-11e7-a186-60c031eab644_story.html

If you think that Russian Trolls was a "comparatively limited problem, I suggest you read this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russian-trolls-hilary-clinton-fake-news-election-democrat-mark-warner-intelligence-committee-a7657641.html

I am not looking at only "one side of the coin," thank you.

Mea culpa for not seeing the true emphasis on your earlier post.

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Can we give decent burial to the meme that Bernie Sanders didn't appeal to black voters. [View all] LongTomH Jul 2017 OP

Of course some supported Sanders but many more POCs supported Clinton brush Jul 2017 #1

Until the general election loyalsister Jul 2017 #17

Turnout was about the same as it was under John Kerry, which is impressive given that StevieM Jul 2017 #195

Southern primaries Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 2017 #30

That was because Sanders was not even on the radar yet LiberalLovinLug Jul 2017 #38

"Why can't both Hillary AND Bernie be recognized for being supportive of the black community?" ehrnst Jul 2017 #47

I know that in Texas the Sanders message did not resonate with African American or Latino voters Gothmog Jul 2017 #55

You're half right, half wrong in your characterization of the camps. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #110

Yes, there is anger among supporters of HRC at Bernie ehrnst Jul 2017 #112

The anger at HRC was not fomented by Bernie. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #124

If we're going back to 2016..... ehrnst Jul 2017 #152

The view you're criticizing me for is the opposite of what I meant Jim Lane Jul 2017 #154

I think there is a danger in false equivalency. ehrnst Jul 2017 #158

This whole discussion is skirting dangerously close to re-fighting the primaries..... George II Jul 2017 #72

Yep. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #113

"dangerously close". Not even close, fully immersed still_one Jul 2017 #177

Yes, I was being nice. Some just can't let it go. George II Jul 2017 #178

I know George still_one Jul 2017 #179

He was all over MSNBC (esp. Chris Hayes' show), CNN, Jamaal510 Jul 2017 #87

I believe Bernie got much less air time than HRC even after he started Akamai Jul 2017 #117

Liking Clinton better does NOT mean they did not like Sanders karynnj Jul 2017 #46

"A vote for Clinton can not be interpreted as a vote against Bernie." ehrnst Jul 2017 #48

I highly doubt that LiberalLovinLug Jul 2017 #99

Doubt all you like. It's been my experience. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #116

but if bernie would have gotten his wish all american girl Jul 2017 #155

Good point. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #156

This LiberalLovinLug Jul 2017 #100

I believe that Sanders supporters often believe that disagreeing with him ehrnst Jul 2017 #114

I think that many of the people who became Sanders supporters had long argued that most Republicans karynnj Jul 2017 #122

This! (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #197

Thank you. nikibatts Jul 2017 #140

I voted for Sen. Sanders in the Texas primary. TexasProgresive Jul 2017 #2

Thank you...wise words. n/t susanna Jul 2017 #106

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2017 #166

Can we give a decent burial to refighting the primary? missingthebigdog Jul 2017 #3

IKR !?!!? uponit7771 Jul 2017 #5

Then why invest so much effort in attacking Bernie? LongTomH Jul 2017 #8

Agreed Arazi Jul 2017 #11

Kindly point out where I attacked Bernie. missingthebigdog Jul 2017 #12

not being a sacred cow kinda guy-- I see criticism rather than attacks. LanternWaste Jul 2017 #13

Some apparently see tepid criticism as a viscious attack emulatorloo Jul 2017 #33

Nobody "attacked" Bernie. You need to have your "Bernie Attack Alarm" recalibrated emulatorloo Jul 2017 #23

Commenting on Bernie's badmouthing the Democratic party is not "attacking." ehrnst Jul 2017 #49

I hear some "progressives" saying we need new, young blood in the D party. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #52

I completey agree with you. I don't hate Bernie Sanders, but there was nothing good about 2016 Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #86

I am not a Bernie fan...but jeez, he is one guy...who cares? Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #85

+1 leftstreet Jul 2017 #10

No shit. BainsBane Jul 2017 #21

Didn't does not eqaul Doesn't ... nice try though uponit7771 Jul 2017 #4

I work at an HBCU, and Sanders wasn't even on the radar Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #6

Thank you. nt cwydro Jul 2017 #19

And we wouldn't see the People's Summit BainsBane Jul 2017 #22

Caucuses are the antithesis to the popular vote. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #45

There are a ton of games that can be played in caucuses Gothmog Jul 2017 #57

I always thought Superdelegates were the antithesis to the popular vote. n/t hughee99 Jul 2017 #162

They are the antithesis to someone like Trump from getting the nomination. ehrnst Jul 2017 #167

No, she didn't explain it. You can argue that superdelegates serve a purpose, you can even argue hughee99 Jul 2017 #169

You could say that about the Iowa Caucuses. ehrnst Jul 2017 #171

You could say that about the caucuses too, but the superdelegate system is a much clearer example. hughee99 Jul 2017 #174

No, you're not right. ehrnst Jul 2017 #175

Actually, you're completely wrong. hughee99 Jul 2017 #183

Actually, you're not getting it at all. ehrnst Jul 2017 #186

Your inability to make your argument clear should be an indication that your argument might be wrong hughee99 Jul 2017 #189

Actually, your language choices keep making my point. ehrnst Jul 2017 #190

Ah, I see what's going on here. You're talking about something different that I am. hughee99 Jul 2017 #194

No, not arguing that at all. ehrnst Jul 2017 #196

It is clearer. hughee99 Jul 2017 #198

In caucuses, people who don't know more about the candidate or the process than the rest of voters ehrnst Jul 2017 #199

In my experience, people who complain about binary thinking are almost always trying to paper over hughee99 Jul 2017 #200

You don't agree with me. That's correct. ehrnst Jul 2017 #201

It's funny that you're pointing out my "binary world view"... hughee99 Jul 2017 #202

Now it appears that you haven't read my posts. ehrnst Jul 2017 #203

I've read all your posts. hughee99 Jul 2017 #204

Oh, so you're upset that people consider their endorsement ehrnst Jul 2017 #205

Again, I don't have an issue with the superdelegates, so why would I think someone who supports hughee99 Jul 2017 #206

I guess you got me. ehrnst Jul 2017 #208

How about this... hughee99 Jul 2017 #210

Nope. ehrnst Jul 2017 #211

You won't say that you don't trust the voters, but have argued that there are reasons hughee99 Jul 2017 #212

And yet you continue. ehrnst Jul 2017 #213

Yes, it was pretty clear as it was absurd. Presidential elections don't include caucuses in any lunamagica Jul 2017 #82

There is an agenda, and you aint part of it. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #54

"You saw young black people" - WOW. This is how you choose to refight the primary? bettyellen Jul 2017 #7

Thanks for posting this nt riderinthestorm Jul 2017 #9

Yeah, Sanders' huge margins of victory in the Deep South primaries last year prove this point! LonePirate Jul 2017 #14

lulz obamanut2012 Jul 2017 #16

Which of those states that Hillary won in the DS primaries... WoonTars Jul 2017 #39

Silly me. I thought this thread was about Bernie's appeal to the pre-eminent Dem bloc in the South. LonePirate Jul 2017 #53

Which is why you brought up Hillarys performance in the DS WoonTars Jul 2017 #61

No, I brought up Bernie's performance in the Deep South. I never mentioned Hillary in my first post. LonePirate Jul 2017 #63

I stand corrected. You only inferred Hillary's performance. WoonTars Jul 2017 #64

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Jul 2017 #103

You are aware that primaries are only among the party, right? ehrnst Jul 2017 #115

That was precisely my point... WoonTars Jul 2017 #159

So those states shouldn't get a say in who the Dem candidate is? ehrnst Jul 2017 #176

Indeed. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #51

just staaaaaahp obamanut2012 Jul 2017 #15

. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #18

"I have a friend" BainsBane Jul 2017 #26

LOL Gothmog Jul 2017 #75

I lol'd JHan Jul 2017 #67

That made me lose my coffee. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2017 #76

LOL!!! (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #168

Truth is he didn't at the time. rockfordfile Jul 2017 #20

A new survey isn't votes BainsBane Jul 2017 #24

Thanks, plain and simple. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #34

You don't get the Democratic nomination without the support of Black women. ehrnst Jul 2017 #44

When black voters have a choice between Bernie and kamala, who do you think they'll pick? La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #25

Bernie's problems have grown since 2016 Fresh_Start Jul 2017 #27

I would have happily voted for him in 2016 if he won the primary La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #28

Same here. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #42

Correct. You are right on. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #59

You're comparing apples and oranges. Bernie didn't appeal to enough black DEMOCRATS pnwmom Jul 2017 #29

There's a huge difference between approving of someone during a poll and voting for them. SaschaHM Jul 2017 #31

That is so very true Gothmog Jul 2017 #58

Absolutely. It shouldn't be ignored, but that vote was in the context of the Clinton name being a JCanete Jul 2017 #66

Way off base. They are loyal to Obama and Sanders R B Garr Jul 2017 #101

they as one uniform block of people? I'm sure there were some people who aren't happy about JCanete Jul 2017 #108

Your first sentence was very predictable. Unless someone R B Garr Jul 2017 #120

I didn't say that. In fact I was very specific about neither of us knowing what his reception would JCanete Jul 2017 #128

Actually, we do know what his reception "would have been" because it R B Garr Jul 2017 #130

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #149

But you said that you couldn't support any politician or party that ehrnst Jul 2017 #139

What I didn't say was that democrats weren't doing this. I did say that it takes criticism to make JCanete Jul 2017 #143

Ah yes. ehrnst Jul 2017 #148

I don't know what you mean. I don't have a problem with that criticism at all. I didn't weigh in on JCanete Jul 2017 #151

I'm sure there are some people who aren't happy about the statement lumping "black voters" into ehrnst Jul 2017 #144

Maybe I can explain it to both of you GaryCnf Jul 2017 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author R B Garr Jul 2017 #131

Thank you very much for your input on this subject. I just want to clarify what I was saying. JCanete Jul 2017 #150

He has dropped 12% in approval ratings (Morning Consult) in VT since last September. ehrnst Jul 2017 #141

news flash: black people are more liberal and Democratic-leaning that white people, on average geek tragedy Jul 2017 #32

Yeah, I don't know what this thread is all about Awsi Dooger Jul 2017 #107

This doesn't really say anything mythology Jul 2017 #35

Thank you ProfessorPlum Jul 2017 #36

I have no problem Backing a Democrat ... Cigar11 Jul 2017 #37

I have no problem backing a democratic party...that backs the people. That's kind of why, as JCanete Jul 2017 #69

Can you give an example of where the Democratic party didn't "back the people?" (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #119

Any time the Democratic party or its candidates are expedient, rather than truthful, or JCanete Jul 2017 #126

Expediency in politics.... ehrnst Jul 2017 #138

lul. stonecutter357 Jul 2017 #40

I don't think that it can be buried just yet. ehrnst Jul 2017 #41

Glad to see the O Shit Pot getting stirred Daily! Cryptoad Jul 2017 #43

If he runs again and gets the nomination, I'll support him MrScorpio Jul 2017 #50

If a kumquat runs and gets the nomination and has a D by it's name, gets my vote too. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #56

One good way to bring the party together . . FairWinds Jul 2017 #60

How about quit insulting people? BainsBane Jul 2017 #62

Do these folks know that yet another of Conyers' bills is languishing in committee JHan Jul 2017 #77

+1000 nt brer cat Jul 2017 #96

Great post, as always! It's Conyers bill. For years. R B Garr Jul 2017 #102

gimmie a break - in what universe is . . FairWinds Jul 2017 #129

Why did you decide to leave that response to this OP? BainsBane Jul 2017 #133

What you said, BB Hekate Jul 2017 #137

Define "establishment Dems" please mcar Jul 2017 #94

PP. Ya, for real. And we are suppose to take that seriously. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #97

The "establishment dems" are the ones who we oppose . . FairWinds Jul 2017 #127

There's a Rahm, Rubin wing of the Democratic Party? mcar Jul 2017 #147

Bernie has abandoned "medicare for all or bust" ehrnst Jul 2017 #187

Since his response was to a post about AA voters BainsBane Jul 2017 #136

Sure is mcar Jul 2017 #145

Can you be more specific on what an "establishment Dem" is? ehrnst Jul 2017 #118

Why do so many on DU seem intent on denying . . FairWinds Jul 2017 #188

I think that you use "establishment" as a perjorative and not an actual description. ehrnst Jul 2017 #191

The more I think about you post BainsBane Jul 2017 #163

The NAACP also opposes charter schools . . FairWinds Jul 2017 #170

This thread is not about charter schools BainsBane Jul 2017 #180

Oh, you know Keith Ellison? FairWinds Jul 2017 #185

How about Florida ? Ya got Florida ? FairWinds Jul 2017 #193

Most of Europe uses multiple payers to achieve universal health care coverage ehrnst Jul 2017 #192

It's great blacks support liberals isn't it, but did you look at that poll? JHan Jul 2017 #65

this has been the week of white people telling black people La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #68

I saw that...posted about it in AA group JHan Jul 2017 #70

oh man. sorry i missed it. yeah thread was epic. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2017 #71

That's a totally valid point, and I personally neglected to look at the actual polling data, before JCanete Jul 2017 #73

It's interesting data ...from what I can see JHan Jul 2017 #74

At THIS site...? regnaD kciN Jul 2017 #78

In 2050 you guys will still be debating this stuff awesomerwb1 Jul 2017 #79

AMEN, I've been black most of my life and I LOVED Bernie...I HATE it when people The_REAL_Ecumenist Jul 2017 #80

I have to ask which part of your life was it where you Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #81

REALLY? It's a figure of speech, Voltaire.... The_REAL_Ecumenist Jul 2017 #83

OK just never heard it before. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #88

Never heard that before. I've been fat white guy all of my life. Doubt anything about that is emulatorloo Jul 2017 #104

LOL! FUNNY! The_REAL_Ecumenist Jul 2017 #109

I had a full head of hair for much of my life, but THAT's changing. (n/t) Jim Lane Jul 2017 #111

EVERYONE needs to move forward... left-of-center2012 Jul 2017 #84

So yeah, nothing I can see in the poll data supports the slant taken by the blog... JHan Jul 2017 #89

Its incredibly insensitive ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #90

in this case ... JHan Jul 2017 #91

True that! ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #93

You nailed it. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #105

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2017 #125

... LexVegas Jul 2017 #92

Even if Sanders had won Motownman78 Jul 2017 #95

Post removed Post removed Jul 2017 #98

I was not going to add my comment to this thread GaryCnf Jul 2017 #121

Thanks again, I completely agree that social and economic justice are impossible to deal with JCanete Jul 2017 #153

Thank you too! GaryCnf Jul 2017 #157

Well written and argued . . FairWinds Jul 2017 #172

I still think that the Black woman who posted here explained her position and the R B Garr Jul 2017 #181

Hopefully I covered that GaryCnf Jul 2017 #182

Bernie didn't appeal at the time of the primaries. He might appeal more in April 2017. kwassa Jul 2017 #132

Turns out the author of the article BainsBane Jul 2017 #135

+1, yes, this just looks like an attempt to rewrite R B Garr Jul 2017 #142

Can we give a decent burial to relitigating the primary and proceed to the present day? The country Hekate Jul 2017 #134

Can we give decent burial to the 2016 Democratic primary? jmowreader Jul 2017 #146

Nope, not ever going to happen. stranger81 Jul 2017 #160

No. hunter Jul 2017 #161

Apparently, he did NOT appeal to black voters. Lil Missy Jul 2017 #164

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2017 #165

Will do so gladly if posts about Bernie end. kstewart33 Jul 2017 #173

I know one person who doesn't believe it... yuiyoshida Jul 2017 #184

Can we give a decent burial to the divisive shit? we can do it Jul 2017 #207

Most Dems are gonna vote for the nominee. Orsino Jul 2017 #209

The accurate thing to say was that Sanders campaign was unsuccessful at winning the votes of POC. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #214