General Discussion

Edweird

(8,570 posts)

74. I see. So if we apply your 'logic' to the republican or libertarian platform, what do we get?

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 05:04 AM

Dec 2011

Republic:
A republic is a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, have supreme control over the government and where offices of state are elected or chosen by elected people.[1][2] In modern times, a common simplified definition of a republic is a government where the head of state is not a monarch.[3][4] The word republic is derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as "a public affair", and often used to describe a state using this form of government.

Liberty:
Liberty is a moral and political principle that identifies the condition in which human beings are able to govern themselves, to behave according to their own free will, and take responsibility for their actions. There are different conceptions of liberty, which articulate the relationship of individuals to society in different ways, including some which relate to life under a "social contract" or to existence in a "state of nature", and some which see the active exercise of freedom and rights as essential to liberty.

Attempting to subvert the progressive platform by playing simple word games is transparent as well as appallingly dishonest.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

223 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I don't think the Health Insurance Reform Act was a great progressive achievement. [View all] boston bean Dec 2011 OP

2.5 million under 26 like it as they are now insured. banned from Kos Dec 2011 #1

Right on, I know 6 members of my wife's family who sarcasmo Dec 2011 #5

Obama had insurance and facilities at the table instead of doctors and patients. SugarShack Dec 2011 #66

Fail surfdog Dec 2011 #77

Fail. tpsbmam Dec 2011 #130

Aw, SNAP! (n/t) derby378 Dec 2011 #145

Seems like Ezekiel Emanuel set the agenda... Octafish Dec 2011 #107

And many millions of others are still not covered. SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #10

If you seen two people drowning but could only help one would you let them both drown? NNN0LHI Dec 2011 #12

No but I also wouldn't save one of them and talk about a victory.. SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #15

I would have handled that situation differently NNN0LHI Dec 2011 #75

Well now you are changing the situation.. SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #124

It's not President Obama's fault you didn't know you could change the rules in midstream. A Simple Game Dec 2011 #132

Those "very high deductibles"... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #144

I notice the article you linked to doesn't say what the maximum allowable out of pocket expense is. dflprincess Dec 2011 #149

I found what you found... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #153

That $5950 is in addition to premiums dflprincess Dec 2011 #161

Found this... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #168

And a single 55 year old making $46,500 a year dflprincess Jan 2012 #169

Yep... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #171

After you pay your $500 or $600 payment per month that you can't afford, A Simple Game Dec 2011 #156

If you have a $500 to $600 a month premium under the PPACA... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #164

Do you know what kind of health care the chronically ill get from Medicaid? unapatriciated Jan 2012 #191

You might want to read the PPACA provisions... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #205

What makes you think I haven't read this. In fact I have read every part of this very long piece.... unapatriciated Jan 2012 #210

... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #211

medicaid and medical are two different animals did you even read what I wrote. unapatriciated Jan 2012 #215

MediCAL... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #219

Yes you are correct I meant medicare and medicaid are not the same. unapatriciated Jan 2012 #221

It depends... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #222

My son is not in a rural area. unapatriciated Jan 2012 #223

Those are good things sandyd921 Dec 2011 #51

Is that 2.5 mil in real numbers, MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #59

covered by insurance is NOT Carolina Dec 2011 #79

They are "now insured" because Obama passed a law REQUIRING them to have health insurance. Leopolds Ghost Dec 2011 #116

Requiring them to carry PRIVATE health insurance, mind you. Leopolds Ghost Dec 2011 #117

Insurance execs who wrote the bill said "the goal is to create a captive pool of young, low-risk" Leopolds Ghost Dec 2011 #118

I hope the young people refuse to buy into it. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #195

So, less than 1% of the population? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #200

Neither Do I! jannyk Dec 2011 #2

I have two kids Control-Z Dec 2011 #3

This was the immediate and real benefit for us, too. PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #8

I also have an 18 YO daughter, Control-Z Dec 2011 #13

Great news for you and your kids. MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #60

I'm so sorry, MedicalAdmin. Control-Z Dec 2011 #62

This lawns about access to insurance, MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #64

what a truly screwed up country we are. This just does NOT happen anywhere else in the civilized wo inna Dec 2011 #113

And the only access that poor people will have is A Simple Game Dec 2011 #134

Wrong. Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #146

Sorry, I assumed the Medicaid was a given. A Simple Game Dec 2011 #157

I posted detailed numbers in another post... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #167

How is an additional $1300 a month not financial ruin? dflprincess Jan 2012 #170

Would $1300 a month ruin some folks? Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #172

UnitedHealth Group is predicting increased growth and increased profits dflprincess Jan 2012 #173

How does a person buy a home or car... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #174

You can grow and increase profits... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #175

In other words, dflprincess Jan 2012 #186

Victims to fleece? Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #187

"Some out of pocket expense" dflprincess Jan 2012 #188

Are people going to choose to die... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #189

For the chronically ill Medicaid is little or no health care. unapatriciated Jan 2012 #192

Read the provisions of the PPACA... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #206

Will they be able to afford mandated coverage after they turn 26? Matariki Dec 2011 #25

Do you understand that there will be subsidies for premiums, based on income? Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #38

Too bad they didn't put in any sort of CAP for premiums in the first place Donnachaidh Dec 2011 #42

I can not believe that anyone on DU would defend that mandated bs. Blows my mind. SammyWinstonJack Dec 2011 #93

When the offer of coverage is so high you can't afford it -- will you still be fined? Donnachaidh Dec 2011 #141

I am a contractor, and like most self employed... MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #65

The subsidy is to keep premiums to 10% of gross income. Deductibles and out of pockets are another TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #190

I can't read the future Control-Z Dec 2011 #58

Which is why Hillary called them "deadbeats" on the campaign trail. Leopolds Ghost Dec 2011 #120

The maximum cost? Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #147

It turned out fairly well for Connecticut's insurance oligarchy thanks to their boy Joe Lieberman. phasma ex machina Dec 2011 #4

Well, ProSense Dec 2011 #6

It was a way to stay at the bottom. immoderate Dec 2011 #7

YES! You are right. Mimosa Dec 2011 #36

It was not a great Constitutional achievement either. TE Lawrence Dec 2011 #9

That's for sure. But I guess that doesn't matter to a great many here. SammyWinstonJack Dec 2011 #94

Well it demonstrably was. Schema Thing Dec 2011 #11

According to Rahm Emanuel one of the biggest pluses of the Profit Protection Act is that it dflprincess Dec 2011 #39

no, that's a republican (I presume?) lie. Schema Thing Dec 2011 #43

Access to care is not guaranteed dflprincess Dec 2011 #45

"false smear" - pure/classic projection inna Dec 2011 #110

It's NOT a Republican Lie. I was reading about this bill in the Washington Monthly at the THINK TANK Leopolds Ghost Dec 2011 #121

Please do not equate health insurance with health care. They are worlds apart. n/t A Simple Game Dec 2011 #136

Right you are. sandyd921 Dec 2011 #52

Sure, insurance companies love it... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #154

Touche Carolina Dec 2011 #80

I see. So if we apply your 'logic' to the republican or libertarian platform, what do we get? Edweird Dec 2011 #74

Except that as I noted, we got real progressive "progress" Schema Thing Dec 2011 #100

Sorry, the RW individual mandate is neither progressive nor progress. Edweird Dec 2011 #101

The 'individual mandate' is not progressive... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #166

Insurance is NOT healthcare. Edweird Jan 2012 #176

No, insurance is NOT healthcare... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #177

No, insurance is 'for profit' and profits by denying care. Edweird Jan 2012 #178

Under the new health care legislation, the PPACA... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #179

There's no justification for the existence of insurance companies. Edweird Jan 2012 #180

You might want to check that "all" in your claim... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #181

Bowing to the political clout of insurance companies is NOT progressive nor progress. Edweird Jan 2012 #182

Absolute failure to get anything done is not progress... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #184

Now you've descended into rote DLC memes. Edweird Jan 2012 #196

Sorry... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #208

"Insurance is how we avoid getting ourselves into situations where we need expensive healthcare" girl gone mad Jan 2012 #198

How clever of you... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #209

What makes you think having Health Insurance will keep you from losing everything? unapatriciated Jan 2012 #212

Health insurance will not keep absolutely everyone... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #214

lol unapatriciated Jan 2012 #216

Let's check facts... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #217

In frickin Texas, of all places Schema Thing Dec 2011 #14

According to the information available at dflprincess Dec 2011 #40

not very affordable for many people, myself included... but VERY VERY progressive. Schema Thing Dec 2011 #41

It's hardly progressive to expect people to pay for a product they can't afford to use dflprincess Dec 2011 #47

Oops... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #148

As the Minnesota Attorney General found out several years ago dflprincess Dec 2011 #150

Geezeeee............ Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #155

I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that insurance companies dflprincess Dec 2011 #162

At least two states... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #165

Sorry but the Insurance Companies were more than willing to engage in "criminal" behavior. unapatriciated Jan 2012 #213

I'm not sure that criminal action is what is best... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #218

this plan is no different than Romneycare. provis99 Dec 2011 #115

Well if Massachusetts... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #158

Same for AZ Cameron27 Dec 2011 #70

I hear ya. dflprincess Dec 2011 #151

And you felt compelled to share this Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #16

I told my friend who had pre-existing conditions that tsuki Dec 2011 #17

Consider yourself sued. Millions are better off now, and very few are worse off... TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #18

Then why do so few believe they are better off? girl gone mad Dec 2011 #20

77% of Americans, by one measure, Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #23

I understand why people believe in angels. girl gone mad Dec 2011 #29

Because they're ill-informed Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #31

I don't believe this to be the case. girl gone mad Dec 2011 #72

Very simply... TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #61

a gallup in november actually had the highest number rating quality of healthcare Tiggeroshii Dec 2011 #143

I hope this is not how you mean your comment, MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #63

Actually, it does nothing for me at all. I'm sorry it does nothing for you, either... TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #73

You have the best name. MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #84

Everyone is entitled to their opinion... Uben Dec 2011 #19

Oh man... PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #28

Best wishes to you and your wife. MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #67

I'm familiar with your situation.... Uben Dec 2011 #76

It is no longer in me to shout this from the rooftops. MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #86

Well, maybe you don't know enough about it Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #21

Dream on. Mimosa Dec 2011 #35

and precisely which provision in the Affordable Care Act Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #68

The actual name Carolina Dec 2011 #81

you have a right to your opinion Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #105

Yup, pay to play features to grease the wheels for rehash from the Heritage Foundation, Dole, Newt, TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #22

ty; i wish i could rec your post / nt inna Dec 2011 #27

+1 Cameron27 Dec 2011 #71

"What it is, is fascist." SammyWinstonJack Dec 2011 #96

As long as it's a political win for their hero, rusty fender Dec 2011 #108

Just today I heard how insurance rates have steadily gone up in Massachusetts Matariki Dec 2011 #24

Absolutely! +1 n/t. sandyd921 Dec 2011 #57

Highest insurance premiums in the country are in Massachusetts. That's how well it works. kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #95

Agree nt Raine Dec 2011 #26

Private health insurance companies, just in the state of Michigan alone, have to rebate 80+ million phleshdef Dec 2011 #30

I don't think I've heard anyone describe it as a great progressive achievement. subterranean Dec 2011 #32

Ok. My 2 kids and 2 step kids are healthier cause they're insured where they wouldn't be... cry baby Dec 2011 #33

We needed single payer. n/t Mimosa Dec 2011 #34

+1 slay Dec 2011 #55

YES- Preventing the insurance companies from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions SUCKS Nye Bevan Dec 2011 #37

Health insurance companies don't like it, either. nt killbotfactory Dec 2011 #44

a friend of mine got a knee replacement from President Obama spanone Dec 2011 #46

Exactly, the pre-existing condition thing is a big deal. A Simple Game Dec 2011 #140

Neither do I. joshcryer Dec 2011 #48

Ok, I agree BootinUp Dec 2011 #49

Medicare was a true milestone sandyd921 Dec 2011 #50

One portion of this bill... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #160

It wasn't slay Dec 2011 #53

But it was progress. n/t Bolo Boffin Dec 2011 #54

The Affordable Care Act is actually less progressive sandyd921 Dec 2011 #56

So? Zoeisright Dec 2011 #69

I believe 90% of the Progressive Caucus voted for it, so it was a "progressive" achievement if not pampango Dec 2011 #78

LOL. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #88

I think it was a huge victory for corporations... 99Forever Dec 2011 #82

LOL! Settle for anything and hope it "gets fixed" down the road. LOL! SammyWinstonJack Dec 2011 #98

At least... 99Forever Dec 2011 #103

Right after NAFTA and NCLB get fixed. n/t dflprincess Dec 2011 #152

Partner and I don't have any health insurance, but we're not under 26 NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #83

What health insurance reform? I call it the Health Insurance Industry and Big Pharma Protection Act Better Believe It Dec 2011 #85

Strongly agree... in many ways it may have been a step backwards. jimlup Dec 2011 #87

agree and MM showed us just how sick that plan was. unapatriciated Jan 2012 #194

It's mandatory private insurance. It is a fucking disaster. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #89

and you'd be correct. KG Dec 2011 #90

What will happen. They will be fined. MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #131

Neither do I, but it was something...a step. MineralMan Dec 2011 #91

I agree MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #133

Worse, it is reactionary. blindpig Dec 2011 #92

I googled 'Health Insurance Reform Act' and got nothing. GeorgeGist Dec 2011 #97

I think you need some Google training. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #199

My newborn sons would have no insurance if it weren't for AMA. Think a little harder. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #99

Neither do I. nt Poll_Blind Dec 2011 #102

Well ProSense Dec 2011 #104

It was a step in the WRONG direction. bvar22 Dec 2011 #106

K&R (n/t) a2liberal Dec 2011 #109

As I remember it neither was Social Security when it was first introduced. The program was still jwirr Dec 2011 #111

Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad JoePhilly Dec 2011 #112

how do you get away with posting this lame and vicious crap? inna Dec 2011 #114

How is that viciuos? JoePhilly Dec 2011 #119

" Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad " - WTF?? for real? inna Dec 2011 #122

Its sarcasm ... JoePhilly Dec 2011 #123

It was a step forward because it got the government more involved in health care. Was it.. mvd Dec 2011 #125

I also would not call it "great," ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #126

I have two words to describe this healthcare bill gyroscope Dec 2011 #127

maybe that's because rapturedbyrobots Dec 2011 #128

It wasn't progressive at all. Cleita Dec 2011 #129

It didn't help us guitar man Dec 2011 #135

Oh, it was a brilliant scam. woo me with science Dec 2011 #137

Max Baucus and the Insurance Companies wrote the bill.... lib2DaBone Dec 2011 #138

So disagreeing is suing? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2011 #139

until last year, all my money was going to healthcare and i couldnt afford a lawyer Tiggeroshii Dec 2011 #142

it was the largest increase of federal power in the last 50 years and one of the largest in the last grantcart Dec 2011 #159

I'm confused... Bob Wallace Dec 2011 #163

Riiight? Texasgal Jan 2012 #183

Some people don't seem to know their history... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #185

What confuses me is that so many people actually expected more. joshcryer Jan 2012 #193

Some people thought... Bob Wallace Jan 2012 #207

I didn't even know there was a Health Insurance Reform Act...n/t vaberella Jan 2012 #197

Far too little, far too late, but clearly better than nothing. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #201

I know it isn't. mmonk Jan 2012 #202

That's okay. Skinner Jan 2012 #203

and millions who can't afford to use the insurance boston bean Jan 2012 #204

I respectfully disagree unapatriciated Jan 2012 #220