General Discussion

Igel

(35,282 posts)

7. Esp. in this case.

Sun Jul 23, 2017, 10:58 AM

Jul 2017

The college could not collect a fine it had the power to inflict.

That's the basis for the unconstitutionality?

Tell that to the IRS. Or the EPA.

Not to mention many, many state agencies. Executive all, but fining by regulation and sentencing in executive-branch "courts."

Or the judiciary, which regularly imposes fines and collects them (contempt of court, a "charge" not brought by a prosecutor and not subject to trial by jury, not penalties imposed by statute).

The Constitution is largely based on English common law and precedent. They're tacitly incorporated into how we understand the language from the 1790s because they're the background against which the Constitution and early laws were formulated, contrasted, and adjudicated. If you remove the context, you can basically treat the text however you like (meaning "they" can treat the text however "they" like). So it's not so much "supersede" as "illuminate" or "inform the reading of".

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No, Trump cant pardon himself. The Constitution tells us so. [View all] Nitram Jul 2017 OP

Jeez, what a blast from the past. "Dr. Bonham's Case" -- The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #1

sorry, I forgot to include the link. Nitram Jul 2017 #3

Is it possible to post the specific portion of the Constitution referenced by the original post? Not Ruth Jul 2017 #2

It doesn't supercede the constitution. It is one precedent in English Law upon which Nitram Jul 2017 #4

This, too. Nitram Jul 2017 #5

So Trump could pardon himself, but if he were impeached, that would negate the pardon? Not Ruth Jul 2017 #11

I would argue that he attempted to pardon himself LiberalFighter Jul 2017 #27

Esp. in this case. Igel Jul 2017 #7

It's hard to believe we are even discussing this... spiderpig Jul 2017 #6

Why? Igel Jul 2017 #8

It is a weak argument. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #9

Voltaire, do you mind if I ask in you have a background in law? Nitram Jul 2017 #10

Nope. Just another ignorant opinion. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #12

Join the club! Nitram Jul 2017 #13

Tribe, Painter and Eisen are some pretty heavy intellectual hitters The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #16

It seems weak to me for the reason stated. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #17

If you read the article carefully it makes a lot of sense. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #19

Agreed. Does this mean they have also found a prohibition against pardoning Cabinet officers or tritsofme Jul 2017 #18

I agree with Prof Tribe Gothmog Jul 2017 #14

The Supreme Court would find that the President can't pardon themself. The vote... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #15

Doubtful, you can almost bank Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch tritsofme Jul 2017 #20

Even conservative judges are reluctant to give up power and authority. Nitram Jul 2017 #21

So if Nixon didn't resign and was removed, Ford couldn't have pardoned him? BzaDem Jul 2017 #22

Of course Ford could have pardoned Nixon if he'd been impeached and removed. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #23

I agree that Nixon could pardon Ford. I was using the question to dispute the logic in the OP. BzaDem Jul 2017 #29

The president can't pardon against impeachment NobodyHere Jul 2017 #24

I think he can pardon himself because well... Biden rule. tandem5 Jul 2017 #25

lol... SummerSnow Jul 2017 #26

Pardons don't protect from impeachment. Renew Deal Jul 2017 #28