General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

16. Have I ever said we SHOULDN'T address those issues? Even once?

Tue Jul 25, 2017, 01:08 AM

Jul 2017

We all agree that they matter and need to be addressed. It's just that addressing those isn't the automatic solution to all of our problems.

Why can't we speak out on voter suppression and vote tampering AND also discuss issues, strategy and tactics?

And how much can we do about voter suppression and dodgy voter machines between now and 2018, given who's running Congress and most state legislatures? It's not as though we have any ability to force Republicans to give up either of those advantages between now and 2018, and the Supremes are pretty much always going to rule Trump's way on voting issues.

We need to keep bringing those things up, over and over-you are right on that-but we can't win in 2018 JUST by bringing them up. Those issues can't flip Congress or any state legislatures anywhere.

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HRC would have been a great president...but she's never going to run again. [View all] Ken Burch Jul 2017 OP

I disagree with much of what you post but on this, I agree. Kaleva Jul 2017 #1

In that case, why did you bring her up? MineralMan Jul 2017 #2

Apparently "we" can't Cary Jul 2017 #5

I only brought her up because any suggestion that the party change anything Ken Burch Jul 2017 #11

THIS!!! kcdoug1 Jul 2017 #78

If you don't look back and realize the "WHY" of the loss... Baconator Jul 2017 #96

Funny how that happens, isnt it. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #126

"HRC would have been a great president" Weekend Warrior Jul 2017 #3

Absolutely Cary Jul 2017 #8

Now remember True Dough Jul 2017 #27

The fools running our country are providing me with an endless amount of ammo. Weekend Warrior Jul 2017 #36

You are correct Gothmog Jul 2017 #64

I think recognizing places problems with our long standing focus is also reasonable loyalsister Jul 2017 #4

I agree with all you said there. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #62

All good points padfun Jul 2017 #106

How, exactly, is the GOP promoting trade schools? LisaM Jul 2017 #129

Republican on the issues has it loyalsister Jul 2017 #133

I don't know if any jobs came from that (hope they did) but it's untrue that the Dems didn't address LisaM Jul 2017 #134

Jobs jobs jobs is part of the problem loyalsister Jul 2017 #135

Trades xajj4791 Jul 2017 #152

When has she ever said that? That's not an assumption people are making about the men who ran. n/t pnwmom Jul 2017 #6

I didn't say she had said it. It's simply a logical inference. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #12

It isn't logical to me. And it also isn't logical to dismiss pnwmom Jul 2017 #15

I never once dismissed the importance of it. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #17

There wasn't anything wrong with her campaign. She would have lost due to Russian hacking pnwmom Jul 2017 #21

So we should speak out against Russian interference. Fair enough Ken Burch Jul 2017 #25

More than that. We should be fighting for secure election systems pnwmom Jul 2017 #26

Absolutely. I'm totally with you on that. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #53

There were things wrong with her campaign Cuthbert Allgood Jul 2017 #45

Wisconsin's voter ID law suppressed 200K votes in 2016. DT won by less than 23K. pnwmom Jul 2017 #46

+1 Me. Jul 2017 #48

And again, there is no debate about the important of fighting voter suppression. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #57

Are you out there trying to get these voters IDs? forthemiddle Jul 2017 #122

Am I? No. My state doesn't have a voter ID law. We have all mail-in. If you are a Democrat, pnwmom Jul 2017 #123

I lived here! forthemiddle Jul 2017 #127

And again I'm asking: why are you saying "you" and "they" instead of "we" and "us"? pnwmom Jul 2017 #128

Whatever forthemiddle Jul 2017 #130

You live in the state, I don't. So why do you keep blaming me instead of yourself? pnwmom Jul 2017 #131

Almost as easy here forthemiddle Jul 2017 #132

No, there is a big difference. After we register, we don't have to bring an ID to vote. pnwmom Jul 2017 #136

But you still need the I'd to register anyways! forthemiddle Jul 2017 #143

No. It's always easy in WA. pnwmom Jul 2017 #144

"There wasn't anything wrong with her campaign." Baconator Jul 2017 #99

No, it's not false. Between the Russian hacking and the voter suppression pnwmom Jul 2017 #100

Did she win? Baconator Jul 2017 #102

The election was stolen. 200,000 votes got suppressed in Wisconsin -- pnwmom Jul 2017 #104

See you in 4 years... Baconator Jul 2017 #105

And how do you think your perfect candidate will overcome even greater voter suppression pnwmom Jul 2017 #107

No one is asking for perfect... Baconator Jul 2017 #108

We can't win by pretending the Russians won't interfere again or that voter suppression delisen Jul 2017 #28

exactly onetexan Jul 2017 #31

And I never said we SHOULD pretend that the Russians won't interfere again Ken Burch Jul 2017 #54

Meanwhile in the real world, many of us are fighting voter suppression Gothmog Jul 2017 #67

I'm just as much in the real world as you are. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #74

Have you made it to an indivisible meeting? I just received this e-mail Gothmog Jul 2017 #82

I signed up. I'll go to the next meeting they have. That puts the Indivisible thing to rest. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #85

Did you make it to their e-mail list yet? Gothmog Jul 2017 #88

Let it go already. I'm with them Ken Burch Jul 2017 #90

You did not answer my question Gothmog Jul 2017 #94

I've proved I work in the real world. You need to stop badgering me. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #97

Your posts speak for themselves Gothmog Jul 2017 #113

I know what people in the real world do. I've worked in politics for decades And I did sign up. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #115

I just got home from work and I have like 40 flies in my house Cary Jul 2017 #83

Why not O'Malley? Gothmog Jul 2017 #65

He isn't "tainted"...I'm not saying anyone is "tainted" Ken Burch Jul 2017 #111

Read you post, you stated that no one who ran in 2016 should run again Gothmog Jul 2017 #112

Which is not the same as saying anyone is personally tainted. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #114

I will agree with you that O'Malley is a good person Gothmog Jul 2017 #119

OK. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #137

There is an agenda here, you seem to have rooted it out, good on you. Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #118

+1 onetexan Jul 2017 #153

Only Clinton herself can say that she will not run again karynnj Jul 2017 #7

donors and DNC establishment would also play a role geek tragedy Jul 2017 #9

She has already said it BainsBane Jul 2017 #20

Agreed-I would support her in a second if decides to run Gothmog Jul 2017 #68

I would support her if she again won the nomination karynnj Jul 2017 #79

Nobody ever tried to give her the nomination. She got the votes she got. (eom) StevieM Jul 2017 #87

This is like your 5 millionth post saying the same thing you have been saying since last Nov. seaglass Jul 2017 #10

This is what I want to say. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #14

Finding That Hard To Believe Me. Jul 2017 #49

I'll say it directly then: I DON'T think Bernie should run in 2020. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #59

You aren't the only one. BannonsLiver Jul 2017 #121

So have you given up on strengthening third parties and weakening the Democratic Party? Gothmog Jul 2017 #69

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Jul 2017 #18

Any discussion is useless until voter suppression and easily compromised ecstatic Jul 2017 #13

Have I ever said we SHOULDN'T address those issues? Even once? Ken Burch Jul 2017 #16

Meanwhile BainsBane Jul 2017 #19

I don't support replacing Democratic primaries with caucuses. Never have. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #23

she lost to Obama in the South which were mostly Primaries . JI7 Jul 2017 #24

There is no implication BainsBane Jul 2017 #34

I wasn't the one claiming caucuses were unfair to HRC. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #47

Caucuses are not democratic and are easy to game Gothmog Jul 2017 #70

I didn't mention any candidate BainsBane Jul 2017 #89

I agree with you about voting rights and the issues involved in caucuses. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #91

I was a caucus leader for the Obama team in 2008 Gothmog Jul 2017 #72

OK. And I'm not a defender of caucuses as a system. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #86

Well, how do we get the REPUBLICANS who are in charge of all of that Bettie Jul 2017 #66

after 4 (or, heaven forbid, 8) years of Trump & friends the platform will need to change 0rganism Jul 2017 #22

You know I wouldn't be surprised if science proved there to be yuiyoshida Jul 2017 #29

HRC seems to have really gotten under your skin..... delisen Jul 2017 #30

+1 onetexan Jul 2017 #32

Yep Gothmog Jul 2017 #73

A much stronger economic justice program Ken Burch Jul 2017 #103

Thank you Ken for posting your ideas. delisen Jul 2017 #109

Thanks for your courteous response Ken Burch Jul 2017 #110

"And we can't win in 2018 or 2020 simply by saying "we only lost in 2016 because of ..." LenaBaby61 Jul 2017 #33

And a side-eye from Oprah gif proves WHAT, exactly? Ken Burch Jul 2017 #55

Question BainsBane Jul 2017 #35

Coincidence. I hadn't known Schumer had put out the proposals that day. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #60

I will just drop this here: Remember how Bill Clinton, Al Gore, were treated by Democrats here? nikibatts Jul 2017 #37

There's only one goddamn thing we need to do in the future Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #38

So it is ok to blame the Democratic party for the loss, but under no circumstances should we bring still_one Jul 2017 #39

+1 betsuni Jul 2017 #40

Great post. Excellent observations. (Thank you.) NurseJackie Jul 2017 #42

Thank-you, but you are far more articulate than I will ever be still_one Jul 2017 #43

I've never once said that we shouldn't talk about the Russians and the Comey effect Ken Burch Jul 2017 #58

So what? I never said or even implied that you did. NurseJackie Jul 2017 #75

Bullseye. Thank you so much. Paladin Jul 2017 #44

+1 Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #50

There's also "Donald Trump as President is the opposite of a smart idea". HughBeaumont Jul 2017 #51

I totally agree with that. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #61

Of course not. I never said not to bring those up. Not once. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #52

Please stop A-Schwarzenegger Jul 2017 #56

If a Hillary Clinton falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? betsuni Jul 2017 #41

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa JHan Jul 2017 #76

Strengthening third parties or weakening the Democratic Party are not viable options Gothmog Jul 2017 #63

++++ JHan Jul 2017 #77

And I don't support weakening the Democratic Party. What I support would strengthen it. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #92

Strengthening third parties is a really stupid idea that would hurt the Democratic party Gothmog Jul 2017 #93

Actually, that's not true. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #95

Ken, your policies do not make any sense in the real world Gothmog Jul 2017 #120

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Jul 2017 #138

You're reading my mind. NurseJackie Jul 2017 #140

I agree JustAnotherGen Jul 2017 #139

Weakening the Democratic party is a really dumb idea Gothmog Jul 2017 #142

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle... WoonTars Jul 2017 #71

I'm partial to O'Malley for the moment. RandySF Jul 2017 #80

we dont deserve her..:( samnsara Jul 2017 #81

Clinton gets too much of the blame for 2016. Willie Pep Jul 2017 #84

I agree with all that you said there about what we need to do. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #101

Woulda shoulda coulda... finding fault, laying blame and looking backward again? NurseJackie Jul 2017 #141

Not finding fault and laying blame...pointing out problems. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #145

Looking backward is not looking forward ... NurseJackie Jul 2017 #146

You referred to "laying blame". Ken Burch Jul 2017 #147

Yes... actually you were laying blame. NurseJackie Jul 2017 #148

We have to acknowledge what didn't work last time if we are to do better next time. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #151

Actually... we have to acknowledge that looking back is not the same a moving forward. NurseJackie Jul 2017 #155

I'm not obsessing about the past. I'm not refighting. I'm not attacking anybody Ken Burch Jul 2017 #158

Look forward, Ken. Look forward. Stop focusing on the past. NurseJackie Jul 2017 #161

I'm "looking forward" as much as you are. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #162

Look forward! NurseJackie Jul 2017 #163

You aren't "challenging" anybody. You are talking down to people and treating them like children Ken Burch Jul 2017 #164

Making false accusations about me is very negative... NurseJackie Jul 2017 #165

I made no threats against you and I never would. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #166

I don't deserve this... NurseJackie Jul 2017 #167

I've mostly treated you with courtesy. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #168

Look forward, Ken. NurseJackie Jul 2017 #169

Another false statement about me... NurseJackie Aug 2017 #170

Here you go ... you specifically laid blame ... NurseJackie Jul 2017 #149

I only said that to clarify that I wasn't attacking the nominee. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #150

Yeah right. Rephrase, reword, whatever. You don't have to use the word "blame" to ... NurseJackie Jul 2017 #154

We can only look forward if we are open to doing things differently Ken Burch Jul 2017 #156

Focusing on the past isn't moving forward. NurseJackie Jul 2017 #160

And she should not run again helpisontheway Jul 2017 #98

"And we can't win in 2018 or 2020 simply by saying..." Says who? BzaDem Jul 2017 #116

In 2020 we will be 1/5th of the way to the TWENTY-SECOND Century. Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #117

The harm is in seeing Populism as the "answer" when Populism is the problem. Expecting Rain Jul 2017 #124

I think she'd be a great president... Orsino Jul 2017 #125

HRC is the legitimate POTUS triron Jul 2017 #157

She won the popular vote and would be far better in the job. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #159

I want fresh candidates in 2020. Neither Clinton nor Sanders should run. Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #171