General Discussion

fredamae

(4,458 posts)

81. Thats a real shame

Thu Jul 12, 2012, 02:30 PM

Jul 2012

Massage therapy lowers stress, BP, trips to Dr, use of Opiods/OTC's for relief...

My dr over 20 years ago kept telling me to get massage therapy-that it would Help and I refused to go because I believed alternative treatments/herbal therapies were bs---then I had a fall--I relented and went-I had no choice-I couldn't move.
I've been going since and I doubt I'd be any where nearly as mobile today as I am without it-not to mention I only need to see my dr annually for my physical. No pain pills, no OTC pain relief needed.
I've never billed my Ins because they've never recognized it for it's benefits.

Then one of the most widely known alternative herbal therapies is Medical Cannabis. It works.

Why else do InsCo's offer Resistance for it going mainstream? People don't use as many Pharma Drugs and Don't need as many trips to the ER/Dr's offices-Everyone But Big Pharma and InsCo's wins and Stays healthier, but Corp Profits drop.
I won't argue this industry doesn't need some review and perhaps reform-but they shouldn't have tossed the baby out with the bath water--unless they wanted to help these specific for profit industries. Plus fewer people use alternative medicines and treatment so the backlash is auto-diminished....

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Wonderful overlooked fact about Obamacare--it will curtail mandatory alternative medicine coverage! [View all] Godhumor Jul 2012 OP

That's a shame, MadHound Jul 2012 #1

I would love examples of medically necessary alternative medicine Godhumor Jul 2012 #2

Amen! Healing crystals do NOTHING for me LiberalLoner Jul 2012 #6

They do nothing for anybody, except the people who sell them. TheWraith Jul 2012 #79

but the same could be said of most western medicine Voice for Peace Jul 2012 #277

Well, I have proof that some crystals, when cut and polished properly, MineralMan Jul 2012 #140

Let me give you a little story on acupuncture "nonsense". Hell Hath No Fury Jul 2012 #8

And how do you think acupuncture worked? Godhumor Jul 2012 #29

Since you can't spell it, BlueToTheBone Jul 2012 #66

Oh, I'm sorry I should have typed Qi Godhumor Jul 2012 #72

No, the word you can't seem to spell BlueToTheBone Jul 2012 #194

Also he can't spell RELAXING uppityperson Jul 2012 #201

I don't know enough about... Sterling Jul 2012 #139

Source for your argument: " acupuncture fails the scietific process 100% of the time." emsimon33 Jul 2012 #264

I read one study that said pscot Jul 2012 #42

Uh, not exactly. Hell Hath No Fury Jul 2012 #68

chiropractic fixed my sciatica problem, when the ER didn't even get a fucking xray. pansypoo53219 Jul 2012 #63

Was it the same kind of scoliosis my friend has? NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #120

It depends on cause and how bad it is. My partner had a big curve and chiro & massage helped a lot. uppityperson Jul 2012 #127

Thank you for the information NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #131

It can help with muscle spasms, help them be less. Good luck to him uppityperson Jul 2012 #147

If your friend is so bad that surgery can not help MattBaggins Jul 2012 #223

What did you expect an xray to show? MattBaggins Jul 2012 #221

I had a similar experience with acupuncture emsimon33 Jul 2012 #263

very true, the sheep factor Voice for Peace Jul 2012 #278

Yet there are people who find real relief in both of those, MadHound Jul 2012 #9

Placebo effect is the placebo effect Godhumor Jul 2012 #22

It's plainly obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #30

Good, show me my ignorance. Where is the scientific work showing acupuncture works Godhumor Jul 2012 #34

Show me proof of God. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #35

What is wrong in asking for proof? ChazII Jul 2012 #44

Show me proof of God then. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #53

Millions of people are delusional MattBaggins Jul 2012 #224

Note to self: HARK, I hear the sound of *crickets* underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #100

Why respond? Godhumor Jul 2012 #102

Proof has been posted #90 I was giving you a chance to catch up with the front of the class. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #113

He already replied there but didn't address the proof. Did a red herring thing instead. You are so uppityperson Jul 2012 #117

As to be expected. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #124

Willful ignorance and prejudice combine into an ugly mess. I like reading and learning also. uppityperson Jul 2012 #128

Yes. Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #188

Yes. Chan790 Jul 2012 #242

Are you a surgical instrument salesman? BlueToTheBone Jul 2012 #71

Nope. Godhumor Jul 2012 #159

Proof: MadHound Jul 2012 #90

GH and the lot of em don't give a rats behind underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #98

This post was alerted on: The jury voted 4/2 to let it stand. ohiosmith Jul 2012 #146

And in NCCAM you will see right there they state CAM has not met Godhumor Jul 2012 #101

No, what they actually say is this, MadHound Jul 2012 #109

The Maryland School of Integrated Medicine was your one study Godhumor Jul 2012 #126

How many studies will be an acceptable number for you? underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #167

clinical studies have shown time and time again, where the needle goes makes no difference Godhumor Jul 2012 #172

Is it a short article? underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #175

I would suggest statistics courses MattBaggins Jul 2012 #228

Yes NCAM studies MattBaggins Jul 2012 #226

Bastyr University does research on naturopathic medicine. pnwmom Jul 2012 #12

Serious question and naturopathy doesn't even belong in the discussion Godhumor Jul 2012 #18

My pediatrician would strongly disagree with you. She sent me to a naturopath pnwmom Jul 2012 #19

Naturopathy is largely quackery. Godhumor Jul 2012 #25

Then what you should have gone to is a new pediatrician. TheWraith Jul 2012 #85

Like Xanax, Zoloft and so many other drugs sold within Western medicine? n/t MadHound Jul 2012 #92

Just listening to those pharmaceutical commercials on TV Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #191

If Big Woo were actually held to any standards at all MattBaggins Jul 2012 #230

You mean, "Big Woo" would have a warning like this? Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #233

Or do not use this tea if you have high blood pressure. MattBaggins Jul 2012 #252

No, not like that Confusious Jul 2012 #210

Tell that to the Zoloft users who have died from its side effects. n/t MadHound Jul 2012 #287

I had an excellent pediatrician, thank you. pnwmom Jul 2012 #133

That pediatrician should quit her practice. MattBaggins Jul 2012 #229

"chiropractic nonsense" saved my dogs life magical thyme Jul 2012 #45

Medically necessary? vs PATIENT necessary. It may be "medically" necessary to haul an 88 patrice Jul 2012 #55

Thank you. uppityperson Jul 2012 #59

Have seen several family elders off into the beyond. Even under what is supposed to be the best patrice Jul 2012 #64

so much of alternative medicine has to do with prevention Voice for Peace Jul 2012 #276

I've done well with chiropractors. xmas74 Jul 2012 #298

What's a shame is that the alternative medicine folks don't MineralMan Jul 2012 #40

Check out the NLM. Richard D Jul 2012 #50

Yes, and the conclusions are never clear. MineralMan Jul 2012 #73

And the conclusions are clear on drugs like Zoloft, Prozac, Xanax, etc.? underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #108

Uh, I'm very close to someone who has benefited MineralMan Jul 2012 #111

Um, I thought anecdotal stories were worthless. I'm very close to someone who has benefited uppityperson Jul 2012 #112

Not worthless. Just not evidence on their own. MineralMan Jul 2012 #134

silly you -- anecdotal evidence is only permissible when advocating big pharma. nashville_brook Jul 2012 #207

Oh silly me indeed. I forgot. Slap me with a wet noodle and call me done. uppityperson Jul 2012 #208

The benefits to 'some' are not to be argued. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #114

Zoloft should not be prescribed except for conditions where it has MineralMan Jul 2012 #135

And let me just say right now, misuse of prescription drugs is a terrible thing Godhumor Jul 2012 #160

And misuse of prescription drugs is off the charts at an all time high (no pun intended) underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #170

Zoloft side effects: Go Big Pharma MagickMuffin Jul 2012 #180

Fortunately, she suffers from none of those. MineralMan Jul 2012 #185

These side effects are known because the drug has been scientifically studied cpwm17 Jul 2012 #212

Yes, the conclusions are clear. Only the severely depressed do better on them than placebo stevenleser Jul 2012 #169

But the profit driven drug business underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #173

That is because improperly prescribed, SSRI's/SNRI's can push a person into hypomania. stevenleser Jul 2012 #176

Of this I am already aware and understand. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #183

Do you honestly believe that the profit driven Big Woo MattBaggins Jul 2012 #235

Not just the drug business but the doctors doing the prescribing. joshcryer Jul 2012 #239

Yes 200+ years of Science and Medicine have not amazing things MattBaggins Jul 2012 #234

Neither did Big Pharma, nor did the government. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #270

That's one hell of a made up statement. MattBaggins Jul 2012 #274

If you'd bother to pick up some books... Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #296

I pick up many books MattBaggins Jul 2012 #297

Well then you know that almost every advance started out wrong. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #306

Examples of nothing? MattBaggins Jul 2012 #307

No, I don't other's homework for them. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #311

Like germ theory? GreenMask Jul 2012 #275

Perfect example. Germ theory was outrageous quackery and no reputable scientist Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #295

You mean all those double blind tests we've been finding out are rigged to give new meds Lionessa Jul 2012 #138

Links, please. MineralMan Jul 2012 #143

Are you accusing the University of Washington, one of Bastyr's collaborators, pnwmom Jul 2012 #232

Yes, but we also need more naturalistic research, to try to understand qualitatively significant fac patrice Jul 2012 #149

I'm all for research. MineralMan Jul 2012 #151

Absolutely. There's no way to share it if it isn't. There must be some kind of connecting commonalit patrice Jul 2012 #152

What's a shame is that you haven't bothered to find out about the research that IS being done. pnwmom Jul 2012 #231

Do you know what they call Alternative Medicine that's been proved to work? Ian David Jul 2012 #54

Really? MadHound Jul 2012 #78

And do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work, Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #106

and quackery. uppityperson Jul 2012 #107

I guess you missed the proven effective part. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #142

No, I haven't. Since massage therapy now has studies proving effectiveness for some uppityperson Jul 2012 #145

If it is effective, it is not, by definition, quackery. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #154

You two are agreeing underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #164

Oh! Oops. Apologies to uppity and thanks to you. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #168

Proving not proved Godhumor Jul 2012 #157

I can't even get an apology posted right today. ^ look up there ^. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #187

I've been offline a while. We are agreeing and no problems, was being too curt nt uppityperson Jul 2012 #193

+1 underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #119

Woo-hoo, big pharma gets another boost! polichick Jul 2012 #3

No, subsidized CAM is being reduced or wiped out, which is a boost to all of us Godhumor Jul 2012 #4

Lots of snake oil coming from big pharma, too. Zalatix Jul 2012 #11

Withdrawn drugs is comparable to mandates funding CAM? Godhumor Jul 2012 #14

Thalidomide is being used for many people with very serious illnesses MattBaggins Jul 2012 #236

Godhumor, you are barking up the tree here on DU Patiod Jul 2012 #32

Did you explain to them how many universes one needs for a C100 dilution? MattBaggins Jul 2012 #237

Then there's some of us who take heed of Quackwatch and Zalatix Jul 2012 #266

Just because Big Pharma needs strict policing doesn't mean Big Snake Oil is OK Patiod Jul 2012 #312

I love quackwatch but have found untrue non-sources "facts" there which lead me to uppityperson Jul 2012 #288

Exactly. Who cares about nutrition, vitamins, minerals, and all those pnwmom Jul 2012 #13

Absolutely, naturopaths should not have protected subsidized mandates Godhumor Jul 2012 #16

Your ignorance is showing. Medical doctors in Washington often recommend naturopaths. pnwmom Jul 2012 #23

Which is the C in CAM, and is not even remotely medically necessary or even useful Godhumor Jul 2012 #27

Sorry, but I've had better luck trusting my M.D.'s here, and their referrals, pnwmom Jul 2012 #38

And, I'm glad the country will be trusting scietific rigor instead of pseudoscience Godhumor Jul 2012 #43

If scientific rigor were the criteria pscot Jul 2012 #49

They can. Bastyr University has been actively engaged in research for years, in partnership pnwmom Jul 2012 #51

Yeah, no. Bastyr is infamous within the medical world for its pseudoscience Godhumor Jul 2012 #62

Right, you speak for the entire medical world -- except for the N.I.H., the University of Washington pnwmom Jul 2012 #70

Google Bastyr quackery, it may prove enlightening Godhumor Jul 2012 #74

Why, so I can read posts by a bunch of ill-informed blowhards? n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #129

Yea, that's being open minded. Confusious Jul 2012 #222

Seems your much loved bastyr Confusious Jul 2012 #218

OK. When those studies are done and reported, MineralMan Jul 2012 #283

Why wait for that? Bastyr's researchers have been publishing for decades. pnwmom Jul 2012 #293

Actually, I read a couple of completed studies she was MineralMan Jul 2012 #299

"Some benefit was shown." In the world of cancer studies, that kind of result is considered pnwmom Jul 2012 #300

Meditation and massage are not part of what I consider to be MineralMan Jul 2012 #302

Are M.D. allergists also "woo woo"? Those allergy shots with the tiny amounts of allergens pnwmom Jul 2012 #303

Those allergists are not using homeopathetic MineralMan Jul 2012 #304

I believe in good nutrition and even some LiberalLoner Jul 2012 #84

Oh, you mean the vitamins and minerals that are unregulated by the FDA? Zoeisright Jul 2012 #219

Big pharma at least provides stuff that has an effect Scootaloo Jul 2012 #26

Folic acid during pregnancy has greatly reduced spina bifida, but it wasn't conventional pnwmom Jul 2012 #46

You're missing the point Scootaloo Jul 2012 #60

No, you are. The people I've been arguing with are those who lump naturopathy and acupuncture pnwmom Jul 2012 #65

There's a reason, too, now that I look into it... Scootaloo Jul 2012 #75

Are you supporting Naturopathy or botanical medicine? MattBaggins Jul 2012 #241

I'm supporting the work of Bastyr Naturopathic University and its trained practitioners, pnwmom Jul 2012 #253

Bastyr is about a reputable as Bob Jones MattBaggins Jul 2012 #256

That is completely and utterly false to try and say MattBaggins Jul 2012 #238

I never said it was "unaware of folic acid." They didn't recommend the standard use of pnwmom Jul 2012 #255

Going to have to disagree with you MattBaggins Jul 2012 #260

Here's a history of folic acid research by the medical community: MineralMan Jul 2012 #308

Indeed Oilwellian Jul 2012 #31

Here's the thing....you don't actually need an acupuncturist. jeff47 Jul 2012 #245

I see the woo-woos are already whining. Odin2005 Jul 2012 #5

I see the big pharma fans are out in force. n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #24

Oh no! The taxpayers won't pay for your sugar pills! backscatter712 Jul 2012 #28

You are comparing apples and oranges. pnwmom Jul 2012 #48

At least vitamins have some beneficial effects. backscatter712 Jul 2012 #93

I know you are right Mimosa Jul 2012 #265

no they are not MattBaggins Jul 2012 #243

Some do, true. But many do not. Like MD's that over prescribe. There are some unscrupulous doctors uppityperson Jul 2012 #285

Name Calling and and Either/Or Fallacies means you've lost the argument.... Moonwalk Jul 2012 #163

And post #5 isn't name calling MagickMuffin Jul 2012 #181

I think you meant to reply here since this is the name calling uppityperson Jul 2012 #198

Check the context, please. The person I was responding to had just used the term "woo-woos." pnwmom Jul 2012 #227

No, science fans Confusious Jul 2012 #225

Empiricism, the scientific method: These are my gods. Their magic is STRONG. nt Poll_Blind Jul 2012 #7

+1 LiberalLoner Jul 2012 #10

I'll say Tsiyu Jul 2012 #15

+1,000,000! magical thyme Jul 2012 #47

Those drugs are magic. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #166

They turn a lot of people into *dead* around here Tsiyu Jul 2012 #189

We could always replace it with chinese "medicine" MattBaggins Jul 2012 #244

Herbals are by definition derived from plants Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #248

Fixed MattBaggins Jul 2012 #251

I will agree about the Chinese medicines derived from animal products Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #254

People say a lot of things MattBaggins Jul 2012 #258

I'm sure there are studies about the efficacy of Chinese herbal medicines in Japan Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #262

Brushing your teeth is the number one way to prevent periodontitis. MattBaggins Jul 2012 #273

Actually, flossing is better at preventing periodontitis. Besides which, he said "treat". uppityperson Jul 2012 #286

Actually brushing and flossing MattBaggins Jul 2012 #292

And eating right and using good toothpaste, and good genes, and lots of other things too. uppityperson Jul 2012 #310

Strawman Tsiyu Jul 2012 #267

Bastyr University does research on naturopathic medicine. pnwmom Jul 2012 #17

best i can tell my insurance does not cover alternative medicine fizzgig Jul 2012 #20

I reject Obamacare beacause Woody Woodpecker Jul 2012 #21

You reject the Affordable Care Act because of THAT??? Zoeisright Jul 2012 #220

I am glad massage therapists are doing scientific studies so massage therapy may be continued. uppityperson Jul 2012 #33

But it would move from CAM to accepted medicinal practice when proven effective Godhumor Jul 2012 #37

Your definition of CAM is "unprovable crap"? Oh. nt uppityperson Jul 2012 #41

Complementary and Alternative Medicine is defined as such Godhumor Jul 2012 #56

I'd like to see a link to a reputable source with that definition vs your definition. Thank you. uppityperson Jul 2012 #57

Sure Godhumor Jul 2012 #67

Thanks for the link but it says nothing about CAM being "crap" or unprovable or validating your defn uppityperson Jul 2012 #80

Well, why would the people representing it call it crap? Godhumor Jul 2012 #87

You generalize too much. My massages are not "relaxing and feel great". Yes, I'm a Western med & CAM uppityperson Jul 2012 #94

No, my headline was that they wouldn't call it crap Godhumor Jul 2012 #96

Another fail. Here is what AMTA does say, and links to research now, 2012, not 1997 "AMTA booklet". uppityperson Jul 2012 #103

"Realxing, relief of aches, and feel good" sounds like a lot of prescriptions you seem ok with uppityperson Jul 2012 #110

I have not talked about any prescribed drugs other that normal umbrella prescription coverage Godhumor Jul 2012 #121

why are prescriptions that are "Realxing, relief of aches, and feel good" ok with you? uppityperson Jul 2012 #125

I'm not sure what you're trying to get me to say, sorry Godhumor Jul 2012 #130

You continue to ignore what I write to counter your massage assertions. uppityperson Jul 2012 #141

Your proof maintains massage as therapy for HIV/AIDS victims, autism spectrum, etc. Godhumor Jul 2012 #148

You have no understanding easttexaslefty Jul 2012 #165

Oh good, point me to the empirical studies that say so Godhumor Jul 2012 #171

NOTHING was said about "permanently healing scar tissue" in ETL's comment. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #178

oh so broken down scar tissue comes back? Godhumor Jul 2012 #179

IF you had any understanding of the subject you'd know better than to ask that. underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #184

Had to go find where you pulled that excerpt Godhumor Jul 2012 #192

Here from burnsurgerydotorg website underseasurveyor Jul 2012 #196

Thanks. Godhumor Jul 2012 #202

You deny something works, then shown proof you still disagree and want to leave. Hahaha uppityperson Jul 2012 #215

Range of motion improves after massage in children with burns: A pilot study uppityperson Jul 2012 #203

I didn't say that easttexaslefty Jul 2012 #213

What medical books would you suggest for finding this? MattBaggins Jul 2012 #245

How's this? easttexaslefty Jul 2012 #280

Yes getting people to relax and move injured joints is sound medicine MattBaggins Jul 2012 #282

Physical Therapists use it also. It does "actually exist". uppityperson Jul 2012 #290

Here. How about when a PT does it? Are physical therapists also Crap? uppityperson Jul 2012 #214

You answered my last question. "Can you do any of that or will you now try and deflect...?" Deflect. uppityperson Jul 2012 #200

Not happening Godhumor Jul 2012 #209

Deflect again. AMA have no scientific standing either since it, like AMTA is a professional organiza uppityperson Jul 2012 #211

FWIW, some of the stuff associated with mt and body work bugs me a LOT uppityperson Jul 2012 #216

Lung cancer "Complementary therapies have an increasingly important role in the control of symptoms uppityperson Jul 2012 #205

So you think pain medicine is crap also since it only helps with aches. Gotcha. thanks for clarifyin uppityperson Jul 2012 #206

As I understand: it will identify what is more valid and what is less valid & under what variables. patrice Jul 2012 #36

Exactly, so CAM disappears, but those that are proven effective become actual medical work Godhumor Jul 2012 #39

These are HUGE questions especially amongst the elderly. The answers MUST come from research that is patrice Jul 2012 #61

It's about time, too. n/t Ian David Jul 2012 #52

Acupuncture has been used for 8000 years. Manifestor_of_Light Jul 2012 #58

Time is not indicative of effectiveness Godhumor Jul 2012 #77

And there you show your prejudices or would it be ignorance? uppityperson Jul 2012 #83

Neither. How does acupuncture work without refering to a non-tangible energy flow? Godhumor Jul 2012 #118

Both. Educate yourself. Scientific terms? Ok. Try here for starts... Oh dang, "mystical" is missing. uppityperson Jul 2012 #123

Changing from Qi to electromagnetic field is not scientic terms Godhumor Jul 2012 #153

That 1 word is all you take away?Try neurotransmitters, neurohormones, nerves, hypothalamic-pituitar uppityperson Jul 2012 #195

Lot's of nice medical terms there MattBaggins Jul 2012 #250

How does that work if the needles don't cause pain and never overcome the receptor thresholds MattBaggins Jul 2012 #249

All sensory receptors are not pain receptors. If they are in you, I feel sorry because you must be uppityperson Jul 2012 #284

Lol MattBaggins Jul 2012 #291

I'd call it Scientific Reasoning MattBaggins Jul 2012 #247

Thousands of years of practice do not necessarily add up to mysticism. scubadude Jul 2012 #182

Except acupuncture had been study, and it doesn't work Godhumor Jul 2012 #197

Even if what you say is true, you still do not address the balance of my post. scubadude Jul 2012 #257

"It's been tested in the real world far more than many other treatments." Bolo Boffin Jul 2012 #177

THIS Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #190

The PATIENT CENTERED Outcomes Research Institute, i.e. the PP in the PPACA patrice Jul 2012 #69

As far as CAM goes.. ananda Jul 2012 #76

Thats a real shame fredamae Jul 2012 #81

Don't call what isn't as though it were. Igel Jul 2012 #82

Until ACA truly hits in 2014, everything is potential Godhumor Jul 2012 #95

Finally! Deep13 Jul 2012 #86

Health care plan at work covers abelenkpe Jul 2012 #88

In Canada, most provinces don't provide much if any coverage for this stuff JBoy Jul 2012 #89

no more coverage for medical marijuana? eShirl Jul 2012 #91

Replies re “alternative medicine” challenge acupuncture and chiropractic practices but IMO more harm jody Jul 2012 #97

Vioxx. Not just ineffective. Deadly. nashville_brook Jul 2012 #204

Look through a Physician's ohheckyeah Jul 2012 #99

+1000 uppityperson Jul 2012 #104

Where did those statistics come from? cpwm17 Jul 2012 #272

I thought I posted the link - ohheckyeah Jul 2012 #294

Coverage can be ofered even if it isn't required; hedgehog Jul 2012 #105

Which is fine, it is being required to offer that was the issue n/t Godhumor Jul 2012 #115

It's threads like this that I miss the UNREC feature for bbgrunt Jul 2012 #116

THANK YOU! I've been feeling as if I've wandered into the wrong site lately. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #122

I can take the differences; it's the meanness of it all that is overwhelming. I wonder if there patrice Jul 2012 #137

Proof vs. Belief is always a topic that stretches both sides Godhumor Jul 2012 #155

I taught Psychology, as Science, for high school. Human behavior and mental processes patrice Jul 2012 #162

+ + + + + + + n/t FedUpWithIt All Jul 2012 #240

What is considered "alternative"? JDPriestly Jul 2012 #132

Trashing thread. closeupready Jul 2012 #136

Thanks for letting us know! n/t Godhumor Jul 2012 #144

I find the so called skeptics adherence to their faith based beliefs Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #150

All of us need to free ourselves and then try to collaborate on how to proceed. And I do mean "need" patrice Jul 2012 #156

Exactly. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #269

Faith-based science is an oxymoron cpwm17 Jul 2012 #217

You're absolutely right, but this has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #268

I am going home and stepping out for a bit. Will be on to check replies late tonight Godhumor Jul 2012 #158

Good. sagat Jul 2012 #161

Good. 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #174

Fine by me. Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #186

I'm happy to see it won't subsidize expensive quackery bhikkhu Jul 2012 #199

We should allow a little bit of coverage in this area simply to admit we don't know everything. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #259

Chiropractic and acupuncture are NOT "pseudoscientific health care" emsimon33 Jul 2012 #261

There is no such thing as Allopathic medicine MattBaggins Jul 2012 #279

"Allopathic Medicine" is woo talk coined by a homeopath cpwm17 Jul 2012 #281

Healthier life style yes, no to everything else 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #289

I'm amused and bored at the same time Tsiyu Jul 2012 #271

i suffer from chronic body thetans arely staircase Jul 2012 #301

Yes, under the pseudo-religion clause. MineralMan Jul 2012 #305

down with OT III arely staircase Jul 2012 #309