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In reply to the discussion: Vox: Bernie Sanders and many Democrats keep confusing identity politics with tokenism [View all]JCanete
(5,272 posts)25. Thanks Gulfcoast, for doing your best to understand what I'm saying before
posting your rant. What I meant by a fundamental element is that it is not itself intrinsic. It isn't part of a person's DNA, nor is it itself the root. I did oversimplify it because blackness, as somebody said to me recently(and she herself is black and fighting hard for black and LGTBQ rights) is very much an economic construct...a way of making some less than others so that they can be exploited, used, or stolen from or discarded without emotional consequence to those doing the harm.
But while that function is alive and well, it is reinforced by fear. People are afraid that immigrants are coming into the country and taking their jobs, or muslims are coming in and introducing sharia law or terrorism, or that black people are taking their money through welfare, or that women are taking their jobs and are independent enough to leave them...etc. etc. These are not legitimate fears and quite the opposite...well the last one is legitimate but fuck them. But those fears feed their animosities and their distrust of anybody who they see as "other." When people are experiencing instability they are more likely to behave at the limbic level, and less so at the rational level. Since we want to get these people to vote in our best interest, and hell, their own, we should probably find a better way of getting through to them than just slinging shit. Just because they do it doesn't mean its any better for them. They are fucking themselves. We should not be fucking ourselves.
Sure, why not get the racist to tune in. We aren't telling them that racism is peachy keen. We're not condoning or supporting or advocating racism, and quite the fucking opposite. If you can get some of reality into their heads, which would go some distance to actually dismantling racism and its persistence, why is that a bad thing to you? Quit pretending like I'm saying we need to accept the world as it is seen through their eyes, because I know their reality is warped as fuck and it doesn't match up at all with what is. I want to get it just slightly closer to what is.
As to "understanding the fear of the white man...." that isn't so that we can coddle them or pander to them. It is so that we can undermine their shoddy logic. Its so that we can get through to them and the next generation that is weaned on that shitty logic.
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Vox: Bernie Sanders and many Democrats keep confusing identity politics with tokenism [View all]
TomCADem
Aug 2017
OP
we need candidates who know how to CAMPAIGN to win. losing is shit w/ consequences.
pansypoo53219
Aug 2017
#5
Salon - Stop blaming identity politics: With white liberals like these, who needs the right wing?
TomCADem
Aug 2017
#11
no of course it isn't...starting the conversation by calling people, who yes, do behave in racist
JCanete
Aug 2017
#15
"Women are taking THEIR JOBS and independent enough to "LEAVE THEM" is a "legit fear"?!? WTF- THEIR
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#31
yes, legitimate as in there is a loss there to these men who appreciated that dominance and seem
JCanete
Aug 2017
#40
Women took "their jobs" - so much for words mattering? They matter. Goodbye.
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#42
evertything else I posted was their interpretation of reality. I made the faux pas of being keenly
JCanete
Aug 2017
#43
You said the other fears weren't legit- the fear of women taking their jobs being free is legit fear
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#45
that was a sloppy mistake on my part because I was focusing on women's independence when I said that
JCanete
Aug 2017
#47
Wait- racists are "fucked over" because some people call them out for being racist? WTFingFuck?
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#28
It sounds like I wasn't very articulate, because that is not at all what I was intending to say. I
JCanete
Aug 2017
#29
You're blaming he victims, again and again. Now it's women taking "men's jobs"
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#32
holy fuck bettyellen. In the context of everytihng i've typed how is that what you took away?
JCanete
Aug 2017
#33
You said "women taking THEIR JOBS" is a "legitimate fear". Women's jobs are THEIR JOBS AND THERES
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#34
I clarified that after the fact and you can see it in the previous post. It was not what you think
JCanete
Aug 2017
#36
You literally agreed those jobs belong to men- their fears are legit. Own it. It's what you clearly
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#37
no I didn't. Look at the post I added to. ...Fuck it, I'll post it again here. I absolutely did no
JCanete
Aug 2017
#39
You called he idea women's jobs "their (men's) jobs" legit. Not sure what you're going on about...
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#41
No, being honest would be honest. At no point have I lied about my intent. If you want me to
JCanete
Aug 2017
#44
You articulated fears of women and legitimized them, period. You took pains to make a distinction
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#46
and what I meant by legit, i've already explained. What is your problem with that meaning, not your
JCanete
Aug 2017
#48
WTF does that have to do with women who have freedom? Nothing. Unless you're a
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#51
how did you miss the point of this? me saying something was legitimate had to do with whether the
JCanete
Aug 2017
#52
This is not an honest reply, sorry. The contortions you need to go through are gross.
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#54
I'm not suggesting we're creating problems for bigots and sexists. So nope, nope, nope, right back
JCanete
Aug 2017
#55
Yeah, it's exactly what you said. Multiple times. That's the idea you keep floating here.
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#56
Now you're both accusing me of saying "fuck them" and also sympathizing with them simultaneously.
JCanete
Aug 2017
#60
Jesus -it's your own words. I can't help it if your arguments are inconsistent and sexist in part
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#63
you are being intentionally obtuse. You know that's not what I was saying. You are the one
JCanete
Aug 2017
#64
It's literally what you said. That you unintentionally gave credence to the fears of sexists isn't
bettyellen
Aug 2017
#65
those people are not victims. they are trashy fucking losers who should be called out on it
JI7
Aug 2017
#35
Our candidate won 2.9 million more popular votes. Under our system she could have won10 million more
pnwmom
Aug 2017
#59
Jeeze - the last time I posted an old (2016) article I nearly got run out of town.
ciaobaby
Aug 2017
#27