General Discussion

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)

1. Exacyly. I'm fact, some trump voters would have voted Sanders had he been the nominee.

Thu Aug 24, 2017, 02:16 AM

Aug 2017

Trump won in part because he was an outsider. An outsider vs. establishment. I know it is not all that simple - there were other factors - but voters looking for an outsider weren't going to settle for Clinton no matter how much people want someone to blame. And they didn't. And crossovers occurred on both sides.

Correlation does not equal causation. Well put, Burch.

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Response to the argument that "Sanders voters" put Trump in office. [View all] Ken Burch Aug 2017 OP

Exacyly. I'm fact, some trump voters would have voted Sanders had he been the nominee. snowy owl Aug 2017 #1

DURec leftstreet Aug 2017 #2

The issue is not with the article rufus dog Aug 2017 #3

Well put. It's about what the article is being used for. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #7

Yes. HughBeaumont Aug 2017 #17

So we're back to needing the "not all" preface? Oh jeeze. bettyellen Aug 2017 #84

We're back to not blaming an entire campaign for what a small sliver of people did. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #90

Again- you are conflating some voters w the campaign. Some voters were GOPers exhorted to vote bettyellen Aug 2017 #93

You seem to think that acknowledging the effects of TPP in the Upper Midwest means dismissing Ken Burch Aug 2017 #101

You want to bring this back to the primaries and I refuse to. We're taking the general.... bettyellen Aug 2017 #107

Why do you think I want to bring this back to the primaries? Ken Burch Aug 2017 #118

Fixing the voter suppression and finding out the depth of Russian interference are not campaign bettyellen Aug 2017 #121

If people slammed her for that, they were idiots. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #122

Anyone can point to one factor and say it swung it. It was that close. bettyellen Aug 2017 #123

I'm with you on all of that. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #127

It feel so like the dark ages. We need more people out there fighting. bettyellen Aug 2017 #129

Just concede that the headline AS IS is an undeserving broadbrush. HughBeaumont Aug 2017 #97

Most headlines are inaccurate clickbait, so yeah. But it's a new poll and as such... bettyellen Aug 2017 #99

There were red flags in Ohio for sure. HughBeaumont Aug 2017 #102

I agree that she overreached because their polling was pretty flawed. From what I understand they bettyellen Aug 2017 #109

I agree with all you wrote there. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #120

Ding Ding Ding: We have a winner! Chasstev365 Aug 2017 #104

Another thing that is not discussed GeoWilliam750 Aug 2017 #9

Is there any data on that? NurseJackie Aug 2017 #20

And then by positing his own questionable cause, lapucelle Aug 2017 #103

Another data question Jim Lane Aug 2017 #115

Post removed Post removed Aug 2017 #28

Ken the Newsweek article is about the --minority-- of Sanders voters who did not vote Dem in the GE emulatorloo Aug 2017 #4

I believe the intent is to absolve Sanders voters rufus dog Aug 2017 #5

I am aware of all of that. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #6

I do not believe applegrove posted the article to invalidate the Sander's campaign emulatorloo Aug 2017 #8

Read the later responses in this thread. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #43

Perhaps that's because of your confirmation bias? emulatorloo Aug 2017 #111

For the life of me madokie Aug 2017 #18

There are those whose hatred of Hillary was greater than dislike of Trump n2doc Aug 2017 #22

It's a mistake to put it down to "hatred of Hillary". Ken Burch Aug 2017 #42

There were many reasons why Trump won n2doc Aug 2017 #45

Fair enough. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #49

If you go to JPR you will see the mindset that produced this. Its twisted and tortured but its there stevenleser Aug 2017 #38

Thats just a few individuals madokie Aug 2017 #47

I'm not saying JPR has more than a hundred or so sick individuals. The point is however, the talking stevenleser Aug 2017 #95

See also wayofthebern on Reddit. emulatorloo Aug 2017 #110

I can only imagine. Probably the same garbage right? stevenleser Aug 2017 #124

Same with me. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #44

I can't either burrowowl Aug 2017 #131

Seems to me that before any conclusions can be drawn, the data has to be corrected for voter diva77 Aug 2017 #10

This is a really important point Bettie Aug 2017 #30

Given that these were people who voted, those aren't relevant mythology Aug 2017 #46

I get what you're saying. My point is that even if those people voted the way they say they voted, diva77 Aug 2017 #88

Thank you. FOR EXAMPLE -- RandomAccess Aug 2017 #126

thanks for the links diva77 Aug 2017 #130

We continue to make these mistakes because we are passionate. SleeplessinSoCal Aug 2017 #11

It hurts all of us MFM008 Aug 2017 #13

The "hate" on Hillary has been festering and fed for decades. Hulk Aug 2017 #12

The Democratic Party had better come out with a strong, clear and concise message, or it won't be rpannier Aug 2017 #14

One message won't work everywhere...we must tailor the message to the state. Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #27

There's no place where we have to nominate people who will pledge Ken Burch Aug 2017 #36

You always need Joe Manchin types for red states...we never had the majority without a big tent. Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #106

What a steaming pile of bullpucky. Double-speak word-salad at its finest. DetlefK Aug 2017 #15

Don't confuse them with facts. nt Trumpocalypse Aug 2017 #21

Bernie's campaign didn't cause anyone who would otherwise voted HRC in the fall to avoid doing so. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #37

But your OP isn't about his campaign. Your OP talks about Bernie-voters. DetlefK Aug 2017 #40

This is simply a group of people who voted for Bernie once. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #48

This is why your OPs are wrongheaded. The poll is counting voters, period. bettyellen Aug 2017 #87

+1 nt Fresh_Start Aug 2017 #94

Best... reply... EVER! Nailed it. NurseJackie Aug 2017 #100

Snore. WinkyDink Aug 2017 #16

Just an opinion - not a response Justice Aug 2017 #19

Correlation is evidence, just often piss poor evidence Major Nikon Aug 2017 #54

How many wrote in Sanders when he wasn't on the ballot? nm MichMan Aug 2017 #23

Don't know. And I've never defended anyone who did. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #34

"We have no evidence for any conclusions about these people beyond that." betsuni Aug 2017 #24

Yes. Alienation. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #33

What is status quo? betsuni Aug 2017 #39

OK...the overall political culture in D.C. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #50

Go to JPR and read past threads. Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #25

this obamanut2012 Aug 2017 #31

Believe it or not LovesPNW Aug 2017 #56

There is no question that some of those who supported Sen. Sanders refused to vote for Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #105

Typical joeybee12 Aug 2017 #26

yup obamanut2012 Aug 2017 #32

Are you moving us forward with this? Cary Aug 2017 #29

A small percent of Bernie voters are coal miners and misogynists. So what? lostnfound Aug 2017 #35

Bernie did not get any significant support from misogynists. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #55

"Every supporter" BannonsLiver Aug 2017 #125

The horse is dead, Ken. blogslut Aug 2017 #41

I proved I accepted the primaries by campaigning for HRC in the fall. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #58

RIP, horse. blogslut Aug 2017 #59

I'm beating no horse. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #61

+1. (n/t) FreepFryer Aug 2017 #71

What's the name of your dog? WhiteTara Aug 2017 #51

He wasn't. Hillary would have done worse if he'd been barred from the primaries. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #52

"No chance of getting anyone with occupy values" to vote for HRC? That's patently false. FreepFryer Aug 2017 #57

Not without their being an Occupy candidate in the primaries. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #60

You say "they" as if you claim some privileged understanding of an exceptionally diverse coalition. FreepFryer Aug 2017 #63

I do know they rejected the limits of mainstream politics. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #67

Your congoing effort to consider "them" a singular bloc betrays a need to oversimplify. Why? (nt) FreepFryer Aug 2017 #68

I take them seriously. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #70

Again with the "they". Some did, some didn't. Seeking company in the depths of self-recrimination? FreepFryer Aug 2017 #72

Some did...BECAUSE Bernie had been in the race, because they had been heard. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #75

Defensive & false."None of their values had been included in the primary discussion" is a giveaway. FreepFryer Aug 2017 #76

True. WhiteTara Aug 2017 #81

After he LOST the primary WhiteTara Aug 2017 #62

His speech in Philly WAS a full throated endorsement. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #69

Knowing this was an active Russian effort to split the Democrats, did he do all he could to unite? FreepFryer Aug 2017 #73

Seee dossier's page 15 for a lot more on the Russian conspiracy to subvert the Democratic Party vote FreepFryer Aug 2017 #83

Mendacity Expecting Rain Aug 2017 #74

I expect people to believe the truth. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #79

Ken. I see you are very attached WhiteTara Aug 2017 #77

+1. Also have no interest - neither in absolution nor refighting the primary. FreepFryer Aug 2017 #80

I've dwelled on the TPP because it elected Trump. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #85

Me thinks thou doth protest too much. nt. WhiteTara Aug 2017 #86

I supported and campaigned for the ticket Ken Burch Aug 2017 #89

Okay, I'm taking a break from work, so WhiteTara Aug 2017 #108

I agree that that happened. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #116

Join your local Party. WhiteTara Aug 2017 #117

I've been locall involved the whole time. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #119

Thanks Ken LovesPNW Aug 2017 #53

The rhetoric isn't as lame as the strawmen. BannonsLiver Aug 2017 #98

It was always bullshit Major Nikon Aug 2017 #64

Not Voting Has Consequences Too ollie10 Aug 2017 #65

So, basically, Sanders eventually exhorting people who voted for him in the primaries stopbush Aug 2017 #66

Indeed. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #91

Bullshit. nt LexVegas Aug 2017 #78

Logic? Math? Statistical scattering? I suppose you'll be using science and reason next!! Bucky Aug 2017 #82

I don't doubt that some Sanders voters voted for Trump... kentuck Aug 2017 #92

This may be saying the same thing GaryCnf Aug 2017 #96

This is the same argument that blames Nader voters for Bush. alarimer Aug 2017 #112

It's often important we fend both off injury and keep safe our sacred cows LanternWaste Aug 2017 #113

We all know 80-90% of Sanders voters voted for Hillary. DemocraticWing Aug 2017 #114

My point exactly. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #128