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Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
8. Allow me to show your error by quoting the actual decision
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 12:21 PM
Aug 2017

You write:

And you're wrong that the case was dismissed only because of jurisdiction. That was only one of many reasons.


Judge Zloch wrote:

At this
stage, the Court is required to construe the First Amended
Complaint ... in the light most favorable to Plaintiffs and
accept its well-pled allegations as true. ...
This Order therefore concerns only technical matters of pleading and subject-matter jurisdiction.


(Decision, pages 8-9 (emphasis added))

After explaining his reasoning in detail, he wrote the following as the decretal paragraphs:

Accordingly, after due consideration, it is
ORDERED AND ADJUDGED as follows:
1. Defendants’ Motion To Dismiss Plaintiffs’ First Amended
Complaint (DE 44) be and the same is hereby GRANTED; and
2. The above-styled cause be and the same is hereby DISMISSED
without prejudice for lack of subject matter jurisdiction.


(Decision, page 28)

So, yes, it was dismissed only because of jurisdiction. That's why the dismissal was without prejudice.

Side note on "prejudice": As a general rule, litigants don't get to endlessly re-litigate the same issues, hoping that if one court disagreed with them, maybe a different court will rule for them. If Judge Zloch had found that the case was without merit, then his decision against the plaintiffs would bar a subsequent action on the same theories in a different court, such as a District of Columbia court of general jurisdiction. He wrote "without prejudice" to make clear that his decision was not on the merits and therefore did not have such preclusive effect.

I referred to "a District of Columbia court of general jurisdiction" because the cornerstone of Judge Zloch's decision was his adherence to the well-established rule that "Federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction...." (Decision, page 10) By contrast, every state court system (and for this purpose DC is like a state) has a court of general jurisdiction. That's why I wouldn't be surprised to see a new case brought in DC.

The issues you mention that he discussed were all in the context of federal jurisdiction, and specifically whether the allegations showed that the case fell under 28 U.S.C. § 1332, the applicable statutory provision concerning the jurisdiction of federal district courts.

I haven't read the plaintiffs' complaint. Judging from the decision, however, the lawyers were somewhat sloppy in drafting it. For example, you write, "The judge also found that none of the plaintiffs could show that the promises of impartiality induced contributions." In fact, he "found" no such thing, as indeed he could not on a motion to dismiss. As he correctly stated, "In evaluating Plaintiffs’ claims at this stage, the Court assumes their allegations are true...." (Decision, page 2)

The problem wasn't in the proof, but in the pleading. The judge summarized the plaintiffs' legal theory on the fraud claim this way: "According to Plaintiffs, the DNC knew or should have known that those promises of neutrality were false and intended to induce members of the DNC Donor Class and Sanders Donor Class’s reliance." (Decision, page 7) He then explained why the plaintiffs failed on this point -- not because of a failure of their proof (he was assuming everything in the complaint to be true), but because of a failure in the wording of the complaint itself:

Plaintiffs fail to allege any causal connection between their
injuries and Defendants’ statements. The Plaintiffs asserting each
of these causes of action specifically allege that they donated to
the DNC or to Bernie Sanders’s campaign. See DE 8, ¶¶ 2-109. But
not one of them alleges that they ever read the DNC’s charter or
heard the statements they now claim are false before making their
donations. And not one of them alleges that they took action in
reliance on the DNC’s charter or the statements identified in the
First Amended Complaint (DE 8). Absent such allegations, these
Plaintiffs lack standing.


That a fraud plaintiff must allege and prove reliance has been part of American law since before there were primaries. To me, as a lawyer, the failure to make a proper allegation is a worse offense than giving an interview to Alex Jones!

My guess is that these plaintiffs didn't allege reliance because they couldn't do so truthfully. IIRC, if the court had ever reached the point of evaluating proof, the defendants were ready with evidence that at least some of the plaintiffs had been publicly blasting the DNC's obvious non-neutrality well before any internal emails were released. It was obvious to me personally, before even the first debate, that the DNC was not being neutral. Some people don't like this legal requirement of reliance as an element of a fraud claim, but it is the rule, not one conjured up to defeat Sanders supporters: If someone lies to you but you don't believe the lie, you have no cause of action for fraud. "Defendants are despicable liars" may be true but it's not a claim that a court will address.

To get around this problem, the plaintiffs might have to find additional representative plaintiffs who can allege reliance. That means finding at least one donor who was sufficiently well informed to know that the DNC promised neutrality but who was at the same time so ignorant as not to know that the DNC Chair had been a national campaign co-chair for Hillary Clinton's 2008 campaign and that she was clearly favoring Clinton this time. There may well be no such donor. If, instead, the same plaintiffs bring a new case in DC, they'll still have this reliance problem. Because of it, they might well survive the motion to dismiss, because that court will have jurisdiction, but then lose the motion for summary judgment (these are two different ways of ending a case before trial), or they might lose at trial.

As you can see from that paragraph, my correction of your erroneous attacks on these plaintiffs doesn't mean I'm on their side. My current opinion, without having done a lot of research, is that the DNC acted wrongfully but not in a way that will support any legal remedy relating to the 2016 cycle. I hope that Judge Zloch's smackdown of the DNC's "smoke-filled room" argument will have some beneficial effect on its conduct in future elections.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

K&R stonecutter357 Aug 2017 #1
Nuts! That's the perfect way to describe them! NurseJackie Aug 2017 #2
I Wish The Court Had Ruled The Plaintiffs Had To Pay All Court Costs Me. Aug 2017 #3
Agreed Gothmog Aug 2017 #87
K&R betsuni Aug 2017 #4
I bet there's wailing and gnashing of teeth at jpr right now. KitSileya Aug 2017 #5
Yes. Both there AND ... elsewhere. NurseJackie Aug 2017 #125
The judge rejected a truly outrageous defense offered by the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz Jim Lane Aug 2017 #6
As a Democrat, I'm mortified that the people who brought the suit participated in my party's primary DanTex Aug 2017 #7
Allow me to show your error by quoting the actual decision Jim Lane Aug 2017 #8
Your attempts at analysis are sad but funny Gothmog Aug 2017 #10
Sorry to disappoint you but I *was* on law review. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #11
You are defending a piece of shit lawsuit that is a joke Gothmog Aug 2017 #14
I think it's the Seth Rich crap that sent it OTT. Although amusing isn't the word I'd choose. bettyellen Aug 2017 #22
Could be. I've paid no attention to that. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #24
Point being, they are crackpots. And being upset he DNC used legal reasoning to explain their bettyellen Aug 2017 #25
The DNC's legal obligations don't depend on whether these individuals are crackpots. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #26
But they didn't go into a backroom at all. Some discussed their preferences and wish bettyellen Aug 2017 #27
I don't agree with you about the debates. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #28
They added four debates. And honestly that was too much because it was down to two bettyellen Aug 2017 #30
I still don't see the connection to Judge Zloch's decision Jim Lane Aug 2017 #43
You should concentrate on what the judge actually said, R B Garr Aug 2017 #46
That's great advice. I wish other people would follow it. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #47
Not really. "My assertions", as you call your own R B Garr Aug 2017 #50
The connection is your argument that the DNC was being rigid and unfair. bettyellen Aug 2017 #48
Ah, that's where you go wrong. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #52
Read the complaint Gothmog Aug 2017 #62
Well yeah, the judge didn't say they weren't neutral enough.... you did. bettyellen Aug 2017 #68
You're finally agreeing with what I wrote in #28. Thank you. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #69
After much consideration...the best way to handle such things in the future is never allow Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #56
My question about that approach has never been answered. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #70
The parties are in charge of the primary process and can do as they choose. This is why you Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #82
Sorry, I don't understand your answer. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #84
You have not read the pleadings or the DC statute Gothmog Aug 2017 #88
i am amused that you think that this stupid lawsuit had merit Gothmog Aug 2017 #32
The judge did not make the ruling you ascribe to him. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #40
You are wrong yet again Gothmog Aug 2017 #61
Fair enough. I was using an informal notion of jurisdiction, which was incorrect on my part. DanTex Aug 2017 #12
Your notion of jurisdiction wasn't incorrect, just incomplete Jim Lane Aug 2017 #15
Thanks for the clarification. DanTex Aug 2017 #18
More about fraud Jim Lane Aug 2017 #20
"Fraud Actions Not Generically Unsuitable for Class Certification." That just screams "read me"! DanTex Aug 2017 #21
The legal analysis above is mostly wrong Gothmog Aug 2017 #38
Did you read the opinion? Gothmog Aug 2017 #33
K&R for this discussion. appal_jack Aug 2017 #74
This was a crap lawsuit brought by an idiot cray baby lawyer Gothmog Aug 2017 #9
The lawyers are real pieces of work. DanTex Aug 2017 #13
JPR posted that video from Alex Jones Gothmog Aug 2017 #34
+1000. The judge was actually kind by calling it not R B Garr Aug 2017 #36
Yes the judge was being kind Gothmog Aug 2017 #39
It's a good thing we have folks like you and Gothmog to tell us what the judge really meant. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #55
lol, of course the judge won't and didn't use the word" R B Garr Aug 2017 #64
Your understanding of legal terminology is incorrect Jim Lane Aug 2017 #66
The judge was very clear. And polite. You don't need R B Garr Aug 2017 #67
Is it your opinion that a new case in a DC court would be barred by res judicata? Jim Lane Aug 2017 #71
This is why you should focus on what the judge R B Garr Aug 2017 #73
Please enlighten me. I asked a simple yes-or-no question. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #75
The first sentence says the judge recognizes that the redress is through the ballot box. R B Garr Aug 2017 #77
Look at the what the judge actually said? That's a great idea. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #94
Here you go again. You keep spamming with irrelevant sidebars to what the judge R B Garr Aug 2017 #98
Do you understand the phrase "To the extent that"? Jim Lane Aug 2017 #100
Yet you admitted in your post #8 that you hadn't even read the plaintiff's complaint. R B Garr Aug 2017 #101
I haven't read the Warren Commission report, either. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #103
lol, I prefer to read what the judge actually wrote. And what the plaintiff's actually wrote. R B Garr Aug 2017 #104
No such a case would be laughed at Gothmog Aug 2017 #85
Let's distinguish two different questions Jim Lane Aug 2017 #95
Read the pleadings Gothmog Aug 2017 #97
Here's where you're wrong. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #99
I am stunned by your patience KTM Aug 2017 #105
Thanks for your kind words. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #114
Ignoring what the judge actually said is what is hopeless and wrong. It looks like R B Garr Aug 2017 #115
No you are so wrong that it is funny Gothmog Aug 2017 #106
I am stunned by your patience R B Garr Aug 2017 #107
You are welcomed Gothmog Aug 2017 #108
That's what was most noticeable about the judge -- the politeness. R B Garr Aug 2017 #113
Good lord KTM Aug 2017 #109
Post removed Post removed Aug 2017 #110
Seriously, you make no sense. The most noticeable thing is you haven't read the R B Garr Aug 2017 #112
Where did the judge imply that the Plaintiff's should resubmit their "case"? R B Garr Aug 2017 #117
When will you run out of straw? Jim Lane Aug 2017 #118
But your straw is okay, I see. R B Garr Aug 2017 #119
I have read the pleadings and the DC statut Gothmog Aug 2017 #89
Yes but the judge said the bias was real Egnever Aug 2017 #16
That's completely false. The judge most certainly did not say that. DanTex Aug 2017 #19
No, the judge didn't say the bias was real. Not a proud (as usual) moment for nutjobs. Lil Missy Aug 2017 #23
No the judge did not make that finding Gothmog Aug 2017 #35
No he didn't. He said that even if he looked lapucelle Aug 2017 #76
What? the DNC prefers Democratic candidates...shocking. Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #83
Now the courts won't act, even on evidence Democrats are abusing pizzas in the basement! struggle4progress Aug 2017 #17
K&R Scurrilous Aug 2017 #29
Is it your vision for our party that our rules and bylaws don't mean anything? davsand Aug 2017 #31
The courts are not the forum for bad losers and crybabies Gothmog Aug 2017 #37
I can see you have no interest in discussing our party. davsand Aug 2017 #41
I have less than no interest in discussing our party...I feel we need to discuss getting Trump Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #57
Trump was elected by sanders supporters who voted for trump Gothmog Aug 2017 #59
I don't disagree...but it is time to move on...and look to the future. Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #63
I truly feel we are all going to have to get together or keep losing. davsand Aug 2017 #72
I don't agree. No rules were violated. However, this is a lesson...no more non-Democrats should be Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #81
Or, in '18, for that matter. GoCubsGo Aug 2017 #96
Who or what determines that somebody is really a "Democrat"? davsand Aug 2017 #120
There is no danger in being a Democrat. That's what you R B Garr Aug 2017 #121
The danger I see lies in closing the doors to the party. davsand Aug 2017 #123
Why would someone want to run if they don't R B Garr Aug 2017 #124
Quite true using the Democratic party as a convenience to mount a campaign that might not be Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #127
Thanks, I had to read that a couple times to make sure that it was saying R B Garr Aug 2017 #128
It is quite easy. Have you joined? For example, Senator Sandors has a 'I' next to his name Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #126
I am very active in the party Gothmog Aug 2017 #58
It was unwise for the DNC lawyers to make that argument geek tragedy Aug 2017 #42
Lawyers tend to deliver up whatever defense they can muster. davsand Aug 2017 #44
People who care need to get involved earlier and work to change things which takes time.... bettyellen Aug 2017 #49
No you are wrong Gothmog Aug 2017 #86
I understand lawyers' job is to win the case geek tragedy Aug 2017 #91
That's a very good point. Jim Lane Aug 2017 #102
The DNC was correct in dispuring this ignorant lawsuit Gothmog Aug 2017 #111
Rules and bylaws should be respected but bluedye33139 Aug 2017 #53
My vision? No, that's not my vision at all. DanTex Aug 2017 #65
My vision is that the candidate who got 4 million more votes should have her victory respected stevenleser Aug 2017 #78
Again, I stress that I, personally, think there was no class action there. davsand Aug 2017 #79
3 million more votes in the general, 4 million more votes in the primary stevenleser Aug 2017 #80
And that's it in a nutshell +++++++ JHan Aug 2017 #116
They are playing Infowars against the Dems. These are Russian/Republican plants fighting Dems. L. Coyote Aug 2017 #45
Hence...The Solution Being Me. Aug 2017 #90
There is no "Our Revolution" because there is no revolution. L. Coyote Aug 2017 #92
While I Agree That No Revolutioon Has Occurred Me. Aug 2017 #93
Post removed Post removed Aug 2017 #51
A lot of the "Berniecrats" were manipulated by Trump and the Russians to schism Dems, no doubt L. Coyote Aug 2017 #54
Take heart! It appears that you're not alone in that belief. From what I can observe... NurseJackie Aug 2017 #60
What you said about whatever s/he said. ucrdem Aug 2017 #122
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