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Igel

(37,442 posts)
36. It's more complicated.
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 05:12 PM
Aug 2017

I know people outside of 500-year floodplains that are flooded simply because the local drainage system failed. It's not that there wasn't room for the water to fit into the bayou system, but because man-made structures failed. In one case, the drainage ditch was simply too narrow even though there was white water from it's mouth down to the ditch leading to the bayou. (There'll be hell to pay at the next HOA meeting.) In this case, it's really just a floodplain when rainfall exceeds 5"/hr for two hours, otherwise it's way outside danger. Call this the "North" case.

I've watched, not this time but during a previous flood, water gush out of storm drains in one part of Houston. They were all linked uphill as the city grew north and west, except that drainage pipe system was adequate when community M was built, but when communities N through W were added on it didn't work. In some cases they have large pipes connected to smaller diameter pipes. By the way, when I watched the storm drains upchuck their floodwaters the sun was shining and it wasn't raining where I was. It's like a desert arroyo, you get a flood if it rains upstream. (Houston's working on fixing this, but it'll take years. We're talking thousands of miles of drainage pipe, and if you don't work from down-flow up you're a fool. The area I watched flood is years away from help.) This was north-central Houston.

Cypress Creek's flooding neighborhoods now. Yesterday there was some street flooding, stopped storm drains and just too much water to run off the roads at once. Cypress Creek's cresting later today at record levels. (This hits close to home, I live south of here but think of the area north as my home base.)

Greenspoint is a weird case. It flooded early this morning, Monday. It didn't flood when it got 16" of rain Saturday night, including some times when rainfall exceeded 5"/hr. It flooded when it got 4" in the same amount of time and rainfall never exceeded 1.5"/hr. Now, a large chunk of Greenspoint is in the 100-year floodplain, making this even weirder.

Here's background info to make sense of this. The Greens Bayou watershed (it's mine, so I know it) empties into a river shortly before the river reaches Galveston Bay, so it's long. However, upstream from Greenspoint there's not much watershed, and it's fairly narrow. So think long and skinny. The heavy rains Saturday night occurred in bands that cross-cut it so when it was raining 5"/hr in one place it was drizzling a mile away. The average rainfall for the watershed upstream of Greenspoint was a bit less than 1"/hr, even if it was a lot higher at times in certain places. Sunday night there were two hours of about 1.5"/hr, but the rain band responsible for that was parallel to the watershed's length, so that 1.5" inches hit pretty much every square inch of the watershed. After half an hour it all hit Greenspoint. Downstream there was no flooding because the bayou widens out below Greenspoint.

So let's talk evacuation orders. In the case of Cypress Creek I think you're right, generally. They can look at the flood gauge info and rain patterns and the contour maps and say what's going to flood.

In the case of Greenspoint, no evacuation order could have been announced. It would have been pointless Saturday night, and unexpected Sunday night. It's really chance. If you say "anyplace could have this happen" then you'd evacuate 10 million people, 6+ from around Houston and the other millions from Victoria over to central Louisiana. And the "North" case is just stupidity in central planning.

Doing things residence by residence is difficult. We have revised flood plain maps after Allison, so the newest are perhaps a decade old. Even if we ignore changes since then (subsidence, new structures), a lot of houses are built up. It's a requirement here, that new construction is at least a certain height above flood level. Older houses, naturally, aren't, but many have been raised (esp. in nicer areas). So if you look where I live, it's maybe 3 feet from street to the concrete pad this thing's built on, and about 4" from where dirt ends to where flooding would begin. It's built since the floodplain map was issued, and I have no idea what the relationship between anything here is and the floodplain. Was the street gouged out? The yard built up? Both? Argh.

For hurricanes I like large evacuation orders. For things like this, you really need to know what's happening. Most people here are safe. Some are flooding today that didn't flood Sunday. It's largely predictable, given inputs, but you need those.

Even then, I think residence-by-residence won't work until we know the elevation of each building. It's a theoretical possibility, but it's just not going to happen. Nobody's going to collect the data.

As for merging bayou levels, rainfall levels, and flood-plain contours, that should be done. I've suggested here before, you've suggested it, but I'm not sure anybody's suggested it to the counties. It hasn't been a big issue or much thought of before. But still you need those inputs, not just the floodplain maps.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

better not sorry when not safe librechik Aug 2017 #1
nobody could predict flooding following massive rainfall! unblock Aug 2017 #2
when you worship anti-intellectualism librechik Aug 2017 #4
This was a decision exactly in keeping with the one taken Igel Aug 2017 #32
Last time they tried to evacuate they had 100 people die on jam packed highways lostnfound Aug 2017 #8
The largest evacuation in US history was just south of two million people. LanternWaste Aug 2017 #34
Where would 4 million people go? nt geek tragedy Aug 2017 #3
exactly nt steve2470 Aug 2017 #5
Trumpsters think there are FEMA camps waiting for them when the liberals take over librechik Aug 2017 #6
More like 7 million. B2G Aug 2017 #7
Calling bullshit on part of this Lee-Lee Aug 2017 #9
Yep, there should have been targets zones evacuated, and yes they have map...and 4139 Aug 2017 #12
The issue isn't the flood maps marylandblue Aug 2017 #13
You evacuate anywhere with increased risk Lee-Lee Aug 2017 #14
+1, at least tell people on the news WHICH lower lying areas to evacuate instead of people guessing uponit7771 Aug 2017 #27
A simple way to do it would be color coded street signs or curbs Lee-Lee Aug 2017 #30
+1 uponit7771 Aug 2017 #37
Would be. Igel Aug 2017 #39
And homeowners can read these maps as well. B2G Aug 2017 #16
Yes- and you should be aware of it for your home Lee-Lee Aug 2017 #19
I can't believe they wouldn't know. B2G Aug 2017 #20
You would be amazed. Plus many people rent Lee-Lee Aug 2017 #21
Yep, very good points. nt B2G Aug 2017 #23
On the difficulty of figuring out where the floodplain is marylandblue Aug 2017 #25
OK matt819 Aug 2017 #35
It's more complicated. Igel Aug 2017 #36
The Fort Bend judge just showed their 58-foot "inundation map" for his county. Igel Aug 2017 #40
... alcibiades_mystery Aug 2017 #10
Look up Hurricane Rita Gothmog Aug 2017 #11
pretty much Johonny Aug 2017 #18
No, you evacuate by priority of lowest lying areas and they knew which ones those were and could uponit7771 Aug 2017 #28
People are stupid on steroids Cosmocat Aug 2017 #29
At this point in time the choices were limited. delisen Aug 2017 #15
They made the right call. nt Blue_true Aug 2017 #17
Will we ever be sure of that? Orsino Aug 2017 #24
Life works that way. That is why competent people must be put into office. Blue_true Aug 2017 #31
No. Igel Aug 2017 #38
It's not hard to see that it was the right call FLPanhandle Aug 2017 #22
Having driven in rush hour Houston traffic Phoenix61 Aug 2017 #26
After Rita malaise Aug 2017 #33
I agree, steve2470. Horrible decision to have to make, but - raven mad Aug 2017 #41
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