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mythology

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88. Except what she's saying isn't objectively true

Tue Sep 5, 2017, 07:19 PM

Sep 2017

Sanders didn't cause her to lose the general election. The polling evidence shows she was ahead by enough to win the Electoral College right up until the second Comey announcement about emails. If she hadn't used a private email server, there would be no announcement for Comey to make.

That is what cost her the election.

Much like the vast majority of Clinton supporters in 2008 voted for Obama, the vast majority of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in 2016. Evidence from political science research generally concludes a higher percentage of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton supporters voted for Obama in 2008.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

It's not disrespectful to point out that somebody is wrong and Clinton is wrong about this.

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We need ALL of us...we need the voters who backed BOTH primary candidates. [View all] Ken Burch Sep 2017 OP

"If we allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good, we'll lose again" oasis Sep 2017 #1

That is a horrible quote. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #2

That's not "code", it's how you choose to interpret the message. oasis Sep 2017 #9

We can't just leave the grassroots with no say. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #11

"Viable" solutions to the needs of poor and working class oasis Sep 2017 #16

The DEMOCRATIC grassroots preferred HRC and that's why she was the DEMOCRATIC nominee. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #70

The grassroots were not saying there should be no change. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #76

Yes we in DEMOCRATIC grassroots wanted change, like having a super-smart woman on the Oval Office Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #78

I campaigned for HRC in the fall as did the vast majority of Sanders supporters Ken Burch Sep 2017 #91

You just can't resist the insults and slurs aimed at DEMOCRATS that are almost... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #94

No insults and no slurs, and I'm as much of a DEMOCRAT as you are. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #103

Don't try to play us, Ken Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #108

I didn't say she supported it. I said she largely left it unchallenged. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #118

A distinction without a difference. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #121

She was attacked by Trump, not by Sanders people. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #127

The answer to economic challenges will never be found in cheap theatrics... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #133

They can't be found in tiny changes. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #136

IMO this is just more empty demogogery Ken, of the sort that's... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #141

Us? shanny Sep 2017 #162

Just not "that woman" mcar Sep 2017 #100

Just not the least progressive person we could have nominated. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #107

Who are you talking about? mcar Sep 2017 #109

And I supported her in the fall Ken Burch Sep 2017 #112

Comey, Russia, the media, sexism mcar Sep 2017 #116

Did you mention "sexism"? lapucelle Sep 2017 #122

She didn't lose any progressive votes due to sexism. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #123

Considering the rhetoric of some *not all* mcar Sep 2017 #129

I condemn any website that would do that. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #134

Thanks but I already said that mcar Sep 2017 #137

I agree that what those people are doing is stupid and wrong. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #140

Well there we are in agreement mcar Sep 2017 #143

Did you really say that Clinton was the "least progressive person we could have nominated"? Really? George II Sep 2017 #115

I didn't say she wasn't progressive on anything. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #131

You didn't say "moderate" (what's wrong with that anyway?), you said "least progressive". George II Sep 2017 #146

Same thing. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #148

"Significantly progressive" isn't "moderate". So, if you had five true progressives in a room.... George II Sep 2017 #149

If there message was "I'm the only one who's not 'too liberal' to win". Ken Burch Sep 2017 #150

Uh...HRC is a liberal (and a great one). When one moves away from liberalism... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #158

Define "radical leftist ideology". HughBeaumont Sep 2017 #184

HRC was the "least progressive" person the DEMOCRATIC Party... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #154

You're right about that! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #163

I'm not attacking the party Ken Burch Sep 2017 #172

When compared with populists on the right and on the left... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #174

True, was a big Elizabeth supporter... then threw my support to Bernie when she didn't run... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #153

The Democratic party base is AA, POC and women mcar Sep 2017 #96

Some feel that "the leadership of the Democratic Party" guillaumeb Sep 2017 #33

Obama and Dems were in the driver's seat in 2008. oasis Sep 2017 #48

It's not as simple as putting it down to voter complacency. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #53

Yes, voters should vote in every election. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #55

I'm retired but have maintained my membership oasis Sep 2017 #67

Pretty simple, actually. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #90

Nothing Obama did was good enough mcar Sep 2017 #102

That. Thanks for emphasizing a voter's responsibility -- learn the issues and VOTE! ATL Ebony Sep 2017 #139

It's really that easy mcar Sep 2017 #142

I know, it really is that simple vs finding issues to spotlight then use a bully pit to force ATL Ebony Sep 2017 #147

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2017 #58

Welcome to DU. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #60

Why? shanny Sep 2017 #161

By 2020, those who looked in the mirror after biting off their noses oasis Sep 2017 #166

But you want to silence her. You don't want debate, you want everyone to take your position lunamagica Sep 2017 #47

I don't want to silence her. And I do want debate. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #89

Then there is Nina Turner sowing division. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #173

No, that is the message. Hillary's book is her story and it is full of facts and honest perspective haveahart Sep 2017 #83

Which book? Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #3

You know the one I'm talking about. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #4

I promise that I know the one you are talking about. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #5

My point is that no one should be dividing us. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #7

That's not how it works. That's not how any of it works. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #8

I'm not a former Democratic nominee. I wrote that years later, maybe decades later. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #12

"I'm not a former Democratic nominee." Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #14

It's simply math. We can't get those peoples' votes by forcing them to abandon all group identity Ken Burch Sep 2017 #21

I truly can't make sense of this. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #25

We can't ask for their support if our party ends up blaming 2016 on Bernie. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #124

No Way What Nina & The Others Want Need To Be Taken To Account Me. Sep 2017 #35

There are many books. Which one do you mean? MineralMan Sep 2017 #6

So why be coy about the fact that you are (once again) trashing Hillary Clinton? Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #72

I assume this is about Clinton's book where she said that Bernie's attacks probably hurt her. Willie Pep Sep 2017 #10

Yes Ken Burch Sep 2017 #13

Ignoring reality "hurts the party". NurseJackie Sep 2017 #19

Hillary can't BE silenced. It's just that she has no reason to attack Bernie. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #22

"And I've been nothing but respectful to Hillary. " Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #26

I made one comment about Kamala two years ago. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #69

LET HER SPEAK!! She's not attacking anyone. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #29

"November was ten months ago". Tell that to the DREAMers lunamagica Sep 2017 #57

I agree that an injustice is being done to the DREAMers. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #71

Because it sounds like you are telling people "get over it". You know what? They can't. Futire? they lunamagica Sep 2017 #80

I would never tell DREAMers to "get over it" Ken Burch Sep 2017 #82

Amen, luna mcar Sep 2017 #135

The book in question is a personal memoir. lapucelle Sep 2017 #104

We need unity and dialog to win. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #110

It seemed to me that the OP lapucelle Sep 2017 #117

I posted that because I'm scared that that passage will keep us divided and drive Sanders people off Ken Burch Sep 2017 #120

"How does what was said in that book lapucelle Sep 2017 #126

The implications are that blaming Bernie for the defeat when it wasn't his fault Ken Burch Sep 2017 #128

She doesn't blame him. lapucelle Sep 2017 #144

Yeah, Let's Talk About Nina Me. Sep 2017 #36

Except what she's saying isn't objectively true mythology Sep 2017 #88

"...reach out to each other in a positive way..." lapucelle Sep 2017 #97

He never conceded. And his "support" was lukewarn at best lunamagica Sep 2017 #52

Correct. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #81

A purity test, and enthusiasm meter. shanny Sep 2017 #165

Sanders should release his tax returns JI7 Sep 2017 #15

Man, do we need the primaries forum back more than ever before Blue_Adept Sep 2017 #17

I was arguing here that the primaries should NOT be brought back up. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #24

Your point is forward looking and I agree attacking Bernie serves no purpose other than to divide... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #155

LOL! How does ignoring reality "help at all?" NurseJackie Sep 2017 #18

Do you WANT us to win in '18 and '20? Ken Burch Sep 2017 #28

LET HER SPEAK!! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #30

She can't be STOPPED from speaking. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #38

So why keep trying to silence her? NurseJackie Sep 2017 #42

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2017 #61

Democrats are unified. I chose my words carefully and deliberately. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #64

I'm active in my local DNC and a member lapucelle Sep 2017 #111

I know! That's what I'm seeing too. In the REAL WORLD... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #114

I believe I see where you are confused icymist Sep 2017 #95

Thank you! Thank you very much! (And some try to describe them as "the base"!!) NurseJackie Sep 2017 #130

Funny how Clinton is expected to toe the line in the name of unity, but others aren't. George II Sep 2017 #196

I'd hoped Warren would run, and that was me until I learned more about both of them. Hortensis Sep 2017 #20

Not at all Break time Sep 2017 #23

Are you denying Hillary's right to provide her perspective on What Happened to her seaglass Sep 2017 #27

That is EXACTLY what's happening here! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #31

Nobody's oppressing her. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #34

LET HER SPEAK!! (Now! Not "eight to twelve years from now".) NurseJackie Sep 2017 #40

Why do you keep saying "Let Her Speak!"?. She DID speak. I'm responding. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #46

I say "Let Her Speak" because someone keeps questioning whether it's "necessary" for her to speak. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #56

I can't deny Hillary the right to do anything, nor would I. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #32

Oh, please! Stop Slamming Hillary! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #37

She's not a victim, for Goddess' sake. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #41

Stop insulting Hillary. Please. (Show some respect. Let her speak.) NurseJackie Sep 2017 #43

It's not as though she can only say what she wants if no one responds. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #50

Show some respect, please. She deserves that much! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #59

I didn't stop her from saying anything or stop anyone from reading anything. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #66

Well... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #73

And she has already been heard. People have heard the excerpts and they will buy the book anyway. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #75

To my knowledge, the book hasn't been released yet... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #77

I stand corrected on the book release date. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #87

Changing the subject and deflecting. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #98

I mentioned the Green and JPR things because you've repeatedly implied Ken Burch Sep 2017 #101

No I haven't. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #106

I voted for Clinton but I'm neither a Clinton or Sanders' supporter underthematrix Sep 2017 #39

Ken, have you ever said that Bernie should take the high road? seaglass Sep 2017 #54

I have called on Bernie to take the high road. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #85

Yes... those voters are "idiots" exactly as you stated. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #113

OF COURSE Hillary has the right 2 express her views; no reasonable person cud possibly dispute that. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #157

I'm not convinced Team Clinton or presumed successors actually believe that Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2017 #44

Thanks for that. You've made one of the most sensible posts in this thread. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #68

You got it exactly right... and the irony is Hillary blames Bernie for dividing Democrats. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #156

Yep GaryCnf Sep 2017 #79

And how does your OP help? does it help at all lunamagica Sep 2017 #45

It won't make the feelings arise...they are there...but why encourage them? Ken Burch Sep 2017 #65

That's SO disrespectful! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #86

Such a long and verbose reply, Ken. Yet not a word relating to the questions I asked you lunamagica Sep 2017 #92

My OP is about encouraging a positive path forward. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #99

I have a great idea. Why don't you send all your posts on the thread and send it lunamagica Sep 2017 #159

How do Bernie's constant attacks on the Democratic Party help unity and victory? nt Maven Sep 2017 #49

Well, that's "different". NurseJackie Sep 2017 #62

NurseJackie.... skylucy Sep 2017 #145

Thank you! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #151

Does she talk about Russians/election tampering in the book? leftstreet Sep 2017 #51

She damn sure talked about it during the campaign. But guess who was not listening? Guess who was haveahart Sep 2017 #84

respectfully clu Sep 2017 #171

Fyi haveahart Sep 2017 #175

A very rational thing to say.......and it took a lot of courage to say it on DU! LongTomH Sep 2017 #63

Yup Egnever Sep 2017 #74

Wonder if what helps is that we can learn from our mistakes? George II Sep 2017 #93

This bit isn't about her mistakes. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #125

Thank you. Yes we DO need all the voters, primary and otherwise, elleng Sep 2017 #105

I'll always vote for the DEM, I don't care if Hillary Clinton badmouths my Berniebro ass . m-lekktor Sep 2017 #119

I respect your attitude. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #132

You are right we need both sets of voters to win. LostOne4Ever Sep 2017 #138

Yes, please get the message to Hillary. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #152

yup, we do. shanny Sep 2017 #160

Oh, the OHenry-esque irony of it all! NanceGreggs Sep 2017 #164

Damn! I've missed you. William769 Sep 2017 #168

Right back at ya!!! NanceGreggs Sep 2017 #169

100% that. oasis Sep 2017 #170

Many Democrats, Independents and some Republicans didn't ban1941 Sep 2017 #180

You didn't vote. You should be fucking embarrassed. N/t tammywammy Sep 2017 #183

+1 dalton99a Sep 2017 #186

Forget it, Ken. They want a ventfest. You won't talk them down off it. Jim Lane Sep 2017 #167

Right cilla4progress Sep 2017 #176

You're right, but too many will not want to hear it. TDale313 Sep 2017 #177

This is 100% accurate. WIProgressive88 Sep 2017 #179

I fully expect the Democrats to lose big in 2018 and for Trump to be reelected. alarimer Sep 2017 #187

Hillary is not interested in uniting the party, and neither are most of her supporters on this WIProgressive88 Sep 2017 #178

The sniping has got to stop! ban1941 Sep 2017 #182

I am really looking forward to reading this book Gothmog Sep 2017 #181

Vote for the democratic candidates in 2018 and 2020 liquid diamond Sep 2017 #185

I wasn't doing any blackmail Ken Burch Sep 2017 #188

LOL NurseJackie Sep 2017 #189

You do not own the term progressive. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #190

I don't think it should have been about exalting Bernie. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #191

I think a lot us us tuned into the Convention and saw delegates (presumably not fringe Bernie Bros) Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #194

Thank you! You're correct. It *IS* laughable. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #192

We will need everybody to defeat Pubbie voter suppression. MaeScott Sep 2017 #193

I agree we need both. The "We've got this" approach does not work. jalan48 Sep 2017 #195