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In reply to the discussion: Hillary Throws Shade at Bernie: 'Fundamentally Wrong' About Democratic Party [View all]BainsBane
(53,031 posts)553. Oh, so it has absolutely nothing to do with policy
but process, tactics, and the failure of Democratic politicians to make empty promises to get votes.
Here's another "centrist" who said Single Payer wasn't possible in 2009:
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) reminded the progressive media gathered on Capitol Hill today that single-payer health care reform was dead before it started in the Senate.
"It would have had 8 or 10 votes and that's it," he said, addressing a topic central in the minds of many who the bloggers and left wing talk show hosts gathered for the 4th annual Senate Democratic Progressive Media Summit in Washington reach everyday. . .
Sanders said it was still possible for single-payer to come to the U.S. eventually -- but he said the road will not begin in Washington. If a state like California or Vermont ever instituted a single-payer system on its own, Sanders said, it would eventually lead to national adoption of universal coverage.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance
It wasn't possible under a Democratic president and congress, but it suddenly became possible with Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell controlling legislation. That truly is a fascinating evolution.
And if "progressives" are so concerned about single payer, why do we see Democrats who support it systematically targeted? Why do we see so few threads or discussion of issues but many about Bernie's greatness? Why does every effort to discuss or generate support for single payer result in insults against those who support it or who need to support it to pass, almost as though the goal is to ensure the party doesn't galvanize around it?
I think much of the rest of your post gets at what really matters most: You and others who object to the fact that the party dares to focus on anyone besides them.
"Centrists", as in those who expect ME to "bend the knee" when the population responded overwhelmingly in favor of populist issues over wedge issues.
"Centrists" who accuse people like me of tanking Hillary . . . even though I VOTED for Hillary . . . you tell me how THAT makes any sense.
"Centrists" who accuse people like me of tanking Hillary . . . even though I VOTED for Hillary . . . you tell me how THAT makes any sense.
Wedge issue meaning equal rights, black lives, immigration, LGBT rights, and anything other than the increased comfort of the white male middle to upper-middle class. That may be many things, but it is not to the left of centrists. Quite the opposite. Your claims about overwhelming support for white, because that is what you are talking about, populism over "wedge issues" is also not born out by election results, but I take your point. When you say "the population," you aren't talking about the majority of the country whose lives amount to "wedge issues." You're talking about the 38% of the population who truly matters.
I don't recall ever accusing you or anyone who voted for Hillary of tanking the election. I did see one poster refer to "grudging" support for Clinton, a point with which I voiced disagreement. I've seen lots of accusations toward Trump/Stein/third party/write-in voters, followed by outrage that anyone dare criticize them. I've seen people insisting we must "unify" around Jill Stein and that any criticism of her or their other favorite multi-millionaires who oppose the Democratic Party amounts to a "circular firing squad."
I understand it must be frustrating to realize there are people on earth who don't prioritize your feelings over "wedge issues" like the lives of DACA youth or the victims of hate crimes. The true horror of the Tiki Torch mob was not the beatings and deaths of protesters against racism. It was not the victims of hate crimes or the country's descent into fascism. The true victims were those who weren't in Charlottesville, don't protest or even express concern about racism because they decided that the term alt-left was an assault on them.
I do find the 20/20 outrage to the war fascinating. "Centrists" like me protested the war, yet few joined us. Those sparsely attended protests pale in comparison to the legions who now claim superiority over a position on the war they didn't express or act on at the time. If a fraction of the people who condemn the war now would have done something at the time, the US might not have entered Iraq in the first place. Only they didn't care enough to bother. Instead, they use it as a cudgel in highly selective ways, seemingly against Clinton but not Kerry, Biden, or any man who voted for the war. And it's a convenient trope to use to excuse votes for every other military authorization and defense bill.
Interesting to see you express no objection to massive defense spending, including boondoggles like the F-35 that even John McCain opposes; elevating corporate profits over citizen rights; genocidal gun proliferation; keeping Gitmo open; the Minutemen; and voter disenfranchisement. I guess my belief that all people are created equal is just too "centrist." If only I acknowledged the inherent superiority of propertied white men, who make 0.3% of global incomes, then American could be truly great again.
I personally would like to see some movement from the right to the center rather than turning the clock back a half century or more. But my failure to recognize the superiority of the "Party of FDR," of Wall Street financiers born into the aristocracy who presided over Jim Crow and rampant lynchings, or the party of American empire when governments were overthrown on a continual basis to pay for the comfort of the white bourgeoisie, means I'm a "centrist."
That's okay. I understand that labels are the center of a political ethos built around power and privilege for the right sort of people. The ever shifting standards have to be concealed somehow, even if those doing it manage to convince no one but themselves. But then, no one else matters.
If you want more representatives that prioritize your interests, work to get them elected. No one owes you their labor, certainly not the marginalized who comprise the great majority of Democratic volunteers and voters. You want to campaign against "wedge issues," their rights and their lives, you're going to have to do the work yourself.
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Hillary Throws Shade at Bernie: 'Fundamentally Wrong' About Democratic Party [View all]
DonViejo
Sep 2017
OP
"I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
Madam45for2923
Sep 2017
#223
Can you really picture Truman writing a book about what meanies his opponents were?
QC
Sep 2017
#473
It's actually her duty to write her first-person account of this huge historical event.
Hortensis
Sep 2017
#241
From what I've seen, this is going to be a FANTASTIC first-person account. I'm very much...
NurseJackie
Sep 2017
#316
Anything she says about the election without apology or temerity will be called a burn. (nt)
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#238
It sure does...code for 'women'. My daughter who graduated Suma last spring did
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#487
Exactly right...Do you remember the poster who said...if only Sec. Clinton had remained a Senator...
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#499
I don't see how this helps... seems Hillary has no problem dividing the party.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Sep 2017
#33
What isn't typical is to continue the fight all the way up to the convention when there's no
pnwmom
Sep 2017
#369
Apparently, the need to "learn the lessons of 2016" don't extend to listening to
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#216
If Bernie going to do things like appear with Seth Rich troofer Jimmy Dore and
Adenoid_Hynkel
Sep 2017
#467
When you have former Sanders supporters like Nina Turner running an organization that primaries
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#486
"I was walking down the street minding my own business when someone jumped me and stole my purse...
Hekate
Sep 2017
#364
You poor soul. Russia, Putin, hackers, Comey, RNC, vote suppression: those WERE the 2016 election
Hekate
Sep 2017
#398
She's complaining about Sanders behaving like a more responsible version of Hillary 2008.
geek tragedy
Sep 2017
#535
Reminder that I was a fairly strident voice for Clinton and against Sanders in 2016 primary.
geek tragedy
Sep 2017
#548
Leading and unifying is one thing... complaining and dividing is another.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Sep 2017
#559
call me crazy, but I think Clinton should be held to higher standard than Cornel West nt
geek tragedy
Sep 2017
#419
I expect Cornel West to sow discord and try to reopen old wounds and tear the party apart. nt
geek tragedy
Sep 2017
#512
So you're saying that Hillary is below "sowing discord and trying to reopen old wounds and tear
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#526
Well, that's the thing, she hasn't renounced her status as a party leader, and seems to still think
geek tragedy
Sep 2017
#546
It is such a shame that people who are on "Unity tours" after inviegling themselves into
Ninsianna
Sep 2017
#327
Katy Tur had a front row seat as well, and I ordered her book last night, along with Hillary's.
Hekate
Sep 2017
#399
An accurate observation is often misinterpreted as "the opposite of help."
LanternWaste
Sep 2017
#53
A few short memories around here. Someone constantly attacked the Democratic Party establishment...
brush
Sep 2017
#136
I would apply this standard to people who keep on hating on Bernie Sanders nt
geek tragedy
Sep 2017
#363
It's factual and demonstrable. She's not addressed anyone's "motivations". She is ...
NurseJackie
Sep 2017
#81
Splitting hairs doesn't strengthen your argument. Especially when such "editorializing" can be...
NurseJackie
Sep 2017
#95
No liberties were taken, she's simpy stating facts. No need to go out of her way to
Ninsianna
Sep 2017
#333
Again, just because you don't like a fact, it doesn't change what it is, nor does it
Ninsianna
Sep 2017
#361
It's one of those things, where you might have taken coursework and understand how
Ninsianna
Sep 2017
#562
When the facts point to it being someones else's fault then it is no? I mean, what are we supposed
uponit7771
Sep 2017
#424
If that's where it stops, I'm not into taking accountability for something someone else did that's
uponit7771
Sep 2017
#456
Let's pretend I wasn't born yesterday and can tell the difference between dispassionate
geek tragedy
Sep 2017
#537
other than feeding Clinton partisans' sense of righteousness, what does it accomplish? nt
geek tragedy
Sep 2017
#543
Can you guys please give it a rest and spare us from revisiting this bullshit - some of us have PTSD
Native
Sep 2017
#498
You have an odd definition of facts. Could not find one factual sentence in your post. n/t
seaglass
Sep 2017
#188
Yes.....That Good Working "Relationship" with Tim Kaine who Nearly No One...
LovingA2andMI
Sep 2017
#284
So - around a quarter of Sanders voters in the primaries abandoned Clinton in the General
The Polack MSgt
Sep 2017
#496
I know - if she had just gone away and stayed, we'd be spared her less than apologetic
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#219
I voted for her over Bernie but how sad would that primary have been without him?
BeyondGeography
Sep 2017
#18
My anger is at her performance in the General, which had a lot to do with the result n/t
BeyondGeography
Sep 2017
#111
Didn't see her much in August, but I'm sure that Hey Jude celeb singalong was cool
BeyondGeography
Sep 2017
#257
The thought that Bernie opened lines of attack that Trump never would have pursued is laughable
BeyondGeography
Sep 2017
#267
"We agreed on so much"... yes, because Hillary adopted many of Bernie's progressive positions...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Sep 2017
#21
Yes, Bernie pulled her, and the Party to the Left during the primary. This can only be viewed as a
AtheistCrusader
Sep 2017
#121
I wont read it based on excerpts Ive seen playin the blame game;doesnt help lookin fwd 2 the future.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Sep 2017
#302
Steve . . . last year I contributed to three gofundmes for giant medical bills.
HughBeaumont
Sep 2017
#552
None of the above as much as we agree with it ever had a snowball's chance in hell to pass.
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#440
I am concerned about Democrats...I can't worry about those who can't be bothered to join
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#57
Take my word for it...twisting yourself into knots to please some dissatisfied voters...many
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#217
Yes, I never expected to be wooed by a party. I expect the candidate to make the case.
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#207
If you don't support the Democratic party in your donations,you force them to seek money elsewhere.
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#215
Honestly we had a primary contest for our presidential candidate last election
tiredtoo
Sep 2017
#46
Everyone else gets their say... why do you want to deny Hillary her opportunity?
NurseJackie
Sep 2017
#51
Nah man, "spin" is suggesting HRC was chosen by people other than the voters...
Expecting Rain
Sep 2017
#279
No, I think she was the choice of most DEMOCRATS, but the only ones who mattered...
Expecting Rain
Sep 2017
#289
What? On what do you base that? Since you brought it up here, so not to be accused of....
George II
Sep 2017
#459
We are already repeating the past with groups like Our revolution and Move on (no money for either)
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#49
I trust her and admire her...I wish she was president today. She would be a good one.
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#226
So we have to allow Stein, Turn and their ilk to trash the party in order to get votes?
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#59
Yep, HRC truths are divisive, others putting down the DEMOCRATIC party, is a' ok!
Madam45for2923
Sep 2017
#123
Yes it it is. bashing democrats damages the party and convinces some not to vote Democratic.
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#231
She is a super resilient person. Realistic but likes to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Madam45for2923
Sep 2017
#50
I am proud to be a Democrat and I always knew HRC was too. Still with HER!
Madam45for2923
Sep 2017
#62
In one day her foundation does more to help humankind than any 500 random Americans
Eliot Rosewater
Sep 2017
#395
Hillary is pointing out a simple truth: that just because someone identifies a real problem
stopbush
Sep 2017
#64
That is untrue. We can't discuss that here...but I would suggest reading about the convention.
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#88
It would be re-fighting the primary were I to refute this using examples from the 2016 primary.
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#239
No it wasn't...Pres. Obama never attacked the Democratic Party and that is the difference...nor
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#442
you should look that up...check some archives of morning shows. I won't fight the last primary.
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#446
I'm sure it's difficult for the Clinton's to be out of the political limelight after decades as
jalan48
Sep 2017
#91
I agree. Jimmy Carter is a great example of what a politician can become after leaving the limelight
jalan48
Sep 2017
#151
As Hillary will. Don't forget the Clinton Foundation's great works around the planet.
Hortensis
Sep 2017
#210
I totally agree. Hillary will go down as one of the great women in American history.
jalan48
Sep 2017
#430
I like Jimmy Carter, but I think Bill Clinton has done amazing things with the foundation...it has
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#385
What I find sad is those who say "Hillary should just go away". It's fine for every media
still_one
Sep 2017
#117
Dunno. The 'Right' didn't let Romney peek his head out of his hole till late in the primary.
AtheistCrusader
Sep 2017
#130
My comment wasn't about the primaries. It was about how the media and other critics are given free
still_one
Sep 2017
#173
Why do you keep bringing Romney into this dialog. This is about the rampant sexism that was evident
still_one
Sep 2017
#266
it certainly exists. But there's more than one type of criticism going.
AtheistCrusader
Sep 2017
#307
Hahaha more speeches spiel. You forgot 'em emails. Right progressives? LOL!
Madam45for2923
Sep 2017
#135
If the two (and only those two) ran again for the nomination (and I hope neither does),
Gore1FL
Sep 2017
#114
I agree with Hillary 100%. If she posted this on DU herself...she would have been hidden...LOL
Trust Buster
Sep 2017
#118
Wrong. Bernie as the one true savior of the corrupt Dem party is the myth that needs to die
kcr
Sep 2017
#178
+1. Willful ignorance is always wrong, and this time it was dreadfully dangerous.
Hortensis
Sep 2017
#271
Exactly right, while Sen. Sanders votes with the Democrats, I submit there is little evidence he
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#387
Lots of keystrokes, but seems rather short on understanding very recent history.
Hortensis
Sep 2017
#262
Yeah because HRC is incapable of brilliantly talking about issues/arguments.
Madam45for2923
Sep 2017
#165
Matters what one calls a progressive, assholes who hate Clinton for stating facts aren't progressive
uponit7771
Sep 2017
#394
I am not sure what the rules are in here regarding the primaries.But I will just say that I disagree
SweetieD
Sep 2017
#192
After all of the bullshit and lies flung her way, Hillary deserves to respond however she wants.
LonePirate
Sep 2017
#193
but the entire point of a campaign is to establish oneself as the most favorable alternative
beachjustice
Sep 2017
#228
Republicans have harsh primaries and they still come out like clockwork for the Republican who wins.
Willie Pep
Sep 2017
#295
He didn't hurt her that much because she still won by 3 Million votes
TexasBushwhacker
Sep 2017
#318
Ah but those are Republicans voters who vote for the candidate with the 'R' next to his/her name...
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#389
Agreed, Bernie was loathe to criticize Hillary; minor compared to the "damage" she did to Obama
InAbLuEsTaTe
Sep 2017
#435
That is not surprisingly, her opinion. This assumption that she had these disaffected voters locked
JCanete
Sep 2017
#328
Strangely enough, Hillary WON. She got 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. About 66,000,000....
Hekate
Sep 2017
#406
Strangely enough, Hillary WON. She got 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. It took the combined forces
Hekate
Sep 2017
#409
Well she is right... all the above played a roll in the 2016 general election loss.
Demsrule86
Sep 2017
#390
Boohoo. Had people in MI and WI never heard of Hillary? Do they seriously not vote for
seaglass
Sep 2017
#397
I'm agonized because she never visited my county. How could she take us so for granted?
Hekate
Sep 2017
#405
No, "Centrists" as in the ones who constantly say our issues are "politically unachievable".
HughBeaumont
Sep 2017
#547
'... who will automatically have millions of supporters, millions in small donations...'
crosinski
Sep 2017
#429
After months of being told that any objection to criticism of the Democratic party, its voters,
BainsBane
Sep 2017
#425
I wonder how many of the nastiest "Bernie Bros" were actually Russian provocateurs.
Nitram
Sep 2017
#492