General Discussion

Warpy

(114,650 posts)

63. Of course it is, I've stated so repeatedly

Sun Sep 10, 2017, 08:50 PM

Sep 2017

but it greatly predated the New Deal.

I'm sure anything looked better than sharecropping, nobody ever got rich or even well fed sharecropping some white guy's land. Even at last hired/first fired up north, POC generally did better, especially once the New Deal had come in and a paycheck would support the family, at least when they weren't on layoff. They educated their kids, they started businesses and rich white men hated it. It's one reason they hated the New Deal.

Again, the New Deal was the best deal labor ever had and was responsible for increasing wealth at all levels of society. Women and POC didn't see the advantages white males did, but that is part and parcel of unfairness that had predated the economic deal by millennia for women and centuries for POC.

Cart/horse.

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What is the "hard left"? [View all] guillaumeb Sep 2017 OP

the hard left is what we used to call gopiscrap Sep 2017 #1

Bingo shanny Sep 2017 #25

Hear hear! ananda Sep 2017 #32

exactly gopiscrap Sep 2017 #33

hard left did not create EPA or did civil rights..... beachbum bob Sep 2017 #42

The civil rights movement spearheaded the civil rights laws. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #88

the civil rights laws WERE only PASSED because of the GOP leadership under Evertt Dirksen beachbum bob Sep 2017 #112

Were it not for the movement, there wouldn't have BEEN any legislation. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #147

Not really historically accurate Major Nikon Sep 2017 #191

++10000 zentrum Sep 2017 #139

Please don't rewrite history Trumpocalypse Sep 2017 #101

A real Democrat would not elect a Republican (especially Trump) by saying the parties are the Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #106

+1 uponit7771 Sep 2017 #119

Perfect definition. zentrum Sep 2017 #138

so-called progressives who pitch out the good for the perfect OKNancy Sep 2017 #2

Yep. The arrogant and vain ones who'd boast and brag and take pride at... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #4

So true exfthings Sep 2017 #94

100% right. That is the defining feature, a blanket OnDoutside Sep 2017 #6

So the hard-left is unrealistic? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #7

It's still a good goal, a target, ... JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2017 #12

As to single payer, guillaumeb Sep 2017 #45

Yup, proud to have stood for marital gay rights before it was "cool"... same with single-payer. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #96

Just as unrealistic as the hard right. paleotn Sep 2017 #108

+1 uponit7771 Sep 2017 #120

+1 Skidmore Sep 2017 #157

That's what conservatives call New Deal Democrats Warpy Sep 2017 #3

We need a New Deal. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #8

Indeed. Furthermore, there was a hard left at the time that opposed the literal new deal. n/t BzaDem Sep 2017 #14

It was partially that and partially because Republicans had finally been completely disgraced Warpy Sep 2017 #16

My point also. The GOP is not truly a governing party. They have no plans guillaumeb Sep 2017 #46

Pretty much sums it up... why we need to put up a true progressive in 2020... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #97

Unfortunately we just had one of those shanny Sep 2017 #74

Yes we need internationalists like FDR who knew there were times... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #69

But the time for U.S. military intervention is over-especially in the Arab/Muslim world. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #89

Neo-isolationism is the surest path to war. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #122

Of course not. World War II had nothing in common with any later U.S. war. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #152

We don't have a large military to avoid wars? Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #166

I'm not a neo-isolationist. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #170

We could have had a non-brutal war with North Korea, or no war at all, back in the 50s... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #171

We've basically got all the major weapons we need for that. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #172

Yetsin's embrace of Putin make my point that Yeltzin was not to be trusted... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #173

Yeltsin chose Putin after the U.S. spent most of his term disrespecting him. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #174

I'd suggest you are making a argument that conflates correlation with causation... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #175

You can't just use the term "populist" for every leader you dislike. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #178

No populist movement that has gained power, has turned out well... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #180

I'm for democracy. I just don't want it to be an arrangement in which... Ken Burch Sep 2017 #185

This is why you get push-back. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #186

In that remark, I wasn't SAYING anyone HERE had called for such limits. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #188

It is fine to say "we have to do this," but unless one can make it happen... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #189

I was referring to Democrats blocking bills introduced by a Democratic president. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #190

So glad I'm not the only one who sees the same things that you do. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #194

Agreed exfthings Sep 2017 #95

Yeah. You should ask interned Japanese Americans, Jews, Blacks, and women VermontKevin Sep 2017 #10

Nobody who calls for a new New Deal supports the return of 1930s racial values. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #160

When exactly was this country "a lot fairer"? n/t tammywammy Sep 2017 #15

Mostly before the oil shocks of the 1970s Warpy Sep 2017 #17

See for example many recent studies of inequality Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #22

Exactly, his figures are very depressing Warpy Sep 2017 #27

So when women couldn't get mortgages or credit in their own name... bettyellen Sep 2017 #30

Apples and oranges Warpy Sep 2017 #31

Not at all, women and POC have been undervalued and used for free labor for centuries.... bettyellen Sep 2017 #34

What you don't seem to realize Warpy Sep 2017 #35

All of women's jobs were serverly underpaid, not sure why you thinks that's by sexist... bettyellen Sep 2017 #37

What you do,t seem to realize GulfCoast66 Sep 2017 #47

Of course it is, I've stated so repeatedly Warpy Sep 2017 #63

OK. you obviously know nothing about sharecropping. GulfCoast66 Sep 2017 #93

Agreed. And we need to change that. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #90

Because were conspicuously omitted from this OP- treated as lesser yet again. bettyellen Sep 2017 #113

I think women and people of color should have been included in the OP. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #148

Now we're demographics, LOL. No, it's about civil rights and equal treatment under the law! bettyellen Sep 2017 #149

I agree that it's about civil rights and equal treatment under the law. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #156

Fully support literally treating as an afterthought? Not even close. bettyellen Sep 2017 #167

I'm referring to the OP. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #168

"Nobody else was mentioned" - who did you expect to be mentioned? Ask "no other causes"? What are bettyellen Sep 2017 #169

No, I didn't expect to. And I didn't expect any other issues other than civil rights Ken Burch Sep 2017 #183

Before Ronald Reagan!! LongTomH Sep 2017 #38

Well said! So many just don't get it. Chasstev365 Sep 2017 #28

Yes, too many think the world popped into existence at their birth Warpy Sep 2017 #29

Citation please...as this is pure nonsense. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #67

New Deal Democrats also embraced segregation Trumpocalypse Sep 2017 #102

How silly of me, segregation only came into being because of the New Deal Warpy Sep 2017 #146

Never said it did. Trumpocalypse Sep 2017 #161

Yes,you did. Warpy Sep 2017 #176

It was an honest post Trumpocalypse Sep 2017 #184

Turn one at Daytona. nt Are_grits_groceries Sep 2017 #5

Too windy at this point. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #9

They share the same uncompromising unreality of the far right. Trust Buster Sep 2017 #11

Who determines what i considered realistic? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #48

The masses determine that. That is why the polar extremes never succeed. Trust Buster Sep 2017 #52

Political groupings do not have to be large in order to be destructive. BzaDem Sep 2017 #13

For me, hard left is so far left that it becomes hard right dhol82 Sep 2017 #18

When I hear "hard left" I think "Our Revolution" ProudLib72 Sep 2017 #19

any organization advocating reform is not "hard left". Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #21

+1 leftstreet Sep 2017 #43

Are you sure they are only advocating for reform? ProudLib72 Sep 2017 #49

I do not see "Our Revolution" as far left. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #50

You are probably correct ProudLib72 Sep 2017 #60

What do you disagree with? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #62

Here is a HuffPo article that sums up my frustration ProudLib72 Sep 2017 #65

Understood. eom guillaumeb Sep 2017 #76

I see 'Our Revolution' and Turner as traitors to our cause... I will support no candidate that comes Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #107

It's name is the Democratic party. nt Trumpocalypse Sep 2017 #103

Once upon a time it meant the CPUSA and other marxist-leninist parties and anarchist Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #20

another +1 leftstreet Sep 2017 #44

An excellent response. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #51

I'm guessing that would be us. mahina Sep 2017 #23

To the GOP, yes indeed. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #53

The hard left are people like this in Monty Python. nycbos Sep 2017 #24

An excellent movie. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #55

I think that is more a function of BainsBane Sep 2017 #84

I don't think LWolf Sep 2017 #26

Wait- Trump is a bigger lefty than HRC?!?! What the ever loving fuck? bettyellen Sep 2017 #40

This graph will, I am certain, cause some responses. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #56

It obviously did. LWolf Sep 2017 #115

This graph is totally bogus. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #71

To understand, LWolf Sep 2017 #116

So, it has been a propaganda tool for a decade. So what? Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #121

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #192

Double WOW Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #193

nonsense roscoeroscoe Sep 2017 #110

Not nonsense, LWolf Sep 2017 #118

#fakenews. stonecutter357 Sep 2017 #111

Way to "Trump" LWolf Sep 2017 #117

Antifa Not Ruth Sep 2017 #36

Anarchists are "Hard Left" The_Casual_Observer Sep 2017 #41

Basically planted by the police to discredit the left, in my view. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #57

Jill Stein voters nt marylandblue Sep 2017 #39

I would call them ineffective at best. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #58

Probably invented by republicans hoping to split Democrats. applegrove Sep 2017 #54

An interersting idea. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #59

Uncompromising and unreasonable, would be my guess. Akoto Sep 2017 #61

Small steps are good as long as the direction of travel is clear. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #64

Like Vermont? Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #78

A good question. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #80

Nah, it's because no one has figured out how to pay for it. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #86

The plan already exists in many other countries. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #130

You are making my points for me. That other counties have a variety of government... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #142

Money is speech in the US, and much money is spent to convince US voters guillaumeb Sep 2017 #143

Canada isn't the United States. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #144

Vermont couldn't either karynnj Sep 2017 #123

Employer health insurance is a stranglehold that the corporations use to retain you Not Ruth Sep 2017 #127

It is more complicated than that - unions fought for those employer plans karynnj Sep 2017 #134

anyone further to the left shanny Sep 2017 #66

Believe the old term would have been Rockefeller Republican dembotoz Sep 2017 #68

that sounds about right shanny Sep 2017 #72

Yep, that's what I was thinking. n/t QC Sep 2017 #70

In their minds, yes. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #98

Apparently, anyone who questions anything the party leadership has ever done Ken Burch Sep 2017 #73

Well understood. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #77

Yes melman Sep 2017 #100

There is no left in the US BainsBane Sep 2017 #75

The politics of anger and resentment? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #79

And even when opposition arises BainsBane Sep 2017 #83

Look, I agree with some of what you've said there. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #92

And you're back to fighting the primaries. MrsCoffee Sep 2017 #104

I'm not. I'm about the future. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #158

The message of the primaries was simply that Bernie as a candidate was rejected. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #159

A longing for an imagined past? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #129

Sure there are, and they are active Not Ruth Sep 2017 #81

Position on NK Not Ruth Sep 2017 #82

What a bunch of pretentious bullshit and rewriting of history. DetlefK Sep 2017 #105

What I meant by that BainsBane Sep 2017 #85

I would think any group that wants to eventually replace capitalism with some other system. Willie Pep Sep 2017 #87

A hard left is what happens when you drive down yuiyoshida Sep 2017 #91

Some humor was definitely needed. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #131

Hard left (hard right) is the same as Alt left...(alternative lie) Stellar Sep 2017 #99

a construct of the neo-nazis . . . n/t annabanana Sep 2017 #109

The hard left shuts down dissenting opinions and debate. grossproffit Sep 2017 #114

Where does this happen? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #132

College campuses, universities. grossproffit Sep 2017 #145

Provide proof. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #150

Rose City Antifa FAQ Not Ruth Sep 2017 #151

Uncompromising leftists? Bradical79 Sep 2017 #124

It all depends on where you stand politically right now. MineralMan Sep 2017 #125

Agreed. So when one is accused of being hard left, guillaumeb Sep 2017 #133

(raises hand) oh! oh! Mister Kott-ah!! MindPilot Sep 2017 #126

Ouch!!!! guillaumeb Sep 2017 #135

Also the non-religious. MindPilot Sep 2017 #137

Yes, the National Day of Prayer, the endless invocations, guillaumeb Sep 2017 #141

Well said! zentrum Sep 2017 #140

Utopian dreamers WinstonSmith00 Sep 2017 #128

Welcome dreamer. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #136

whatever it is, Ted Cruz likes it on Twitter! Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #153

Anthony Weiner nt Abu Pepe Sep 2017 #154

A funny answer. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #163

I would guess most people here think of me as hard left. DemocraticWing Sep 2017 #155

All a matter of perspective? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #164

A nonexistent faction to prop up the false equivalency narrative. n/t alarimer Sep 2017 #162

Perhaps non-viable, or non-influential, rather than non-existent. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #165

This poster and their friends do not exist? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #177

A lefty obnoxiousdrunk Sep 2017 #179

I can't be the only one who thought "romantically aroused liberal" grantcart Sep 2017 #181

Probably not, guillaumeb Sep 2017 #182

"Hard left" is a term from British Labour from the 1980's Spider Jerusalem Sep 2017 #187