General Discussion

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)

30. I don't intend to be rude..

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 09:26 AM

Sep 2017

but it's your prevailing attitude that slows down progress, all big ideas seem impossible at first.. the monumental task of pushing this country to a single payer (or whatever one wants to call it) system is not going to happen over night.. yes, this bill will be shelfed/ destroyed by the Repubs in power.. but isn't that the point of politics sometimes?? to show the American people that the one party has a plan & the other doesn't.. it's why the ACA "repeal & replace" effort failed - their lack of a fundemental & realistic plan, the ACA was a rightwing wet dream that they could never get passed on their own (once upon a time).. they really don't want to change a thing, they want things to stay as is or get worse..

Contrast for the 2018 & 2020 elections are needed, this is a huuuge contrast to a fundemental issue and if Dems want a surge in new voters that may have sat it out in 2016 this may be one of the driving forces going forward..

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Where did the idea come from that support for a second New Deal means support for Jim Crow? [View all] Ken Burch Sep 2017 OP

It is an attempt to poison a revival of progressivism in the Democratic Party Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #1

No, it's the truth... The Democratic Party changed under LBJ when he passed civil & voting rights MrScorpio Sep 2017 #2

first, LBJ was part of the New Deal era Democratic Party Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #5

That process of change also included Truman, Humphrey, and Kennedy Jim Lane Sep 2017 #16

Actually, it started to change big under Truman. Blue_true Sep 2017 #35

Yes, but LBJ's anti-poverty programs were New Deal-like Ken Burch Sep 2017 #41

they were an extension of and the end of the New Deal Era. Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #150

Yes melman Sep 2017 #3

yep. They needed something to go after Bernie on during the primary. nt m-lekktor Sep 2017 #9

I didn't realized Sanders had already declared JustAnotherGen Sep 2017 #151

Yes. HughBeaumont Sep 2017 #20

BS may not be a racist heaven05 Sep 2017 #131

Bingo! This thread is finished. n/t QC Sep 2017 #26

Yes it is. elleng Sep 2017 #128

+1 leftstreet Sep 2017 #135

Here's the thing melman Sep 2017 #4

It's the common strategy of picking one thing to demonize Lee-Lee Sep 2017 #6

Pointing out the shortcomings in an historical era doesn't "Poisoning" everything in that era. ehrnst Sep 2017 #13

"And no, I am not comparing The New Deal with Confederate monuments" melman Sep 2017 #14

Yep, and you did just what I said someone would who didn't get it. ehrnst Sep 2017 #17

Except they are not just pointing out shortcoming of the past Lee-Lee Sep 2017 #24

Can you provide a link to one of those posts? (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #28

Link? emulatorloo Sep 2017 #29

You'll of course, support your allegation with evidence and provide a link LanternWaste Sep 2017 #67

But nobody is denying the shortcomings of the Thirties. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #58

No, it doesn't go without saying that wouldn't happen. ehrnst Sep 2017 #76

That's horrible about the kid. And we need to protect choice But we have federal civil right laws. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #108

we sure don't have those laws for gays dsc Sep 2017 #114

And we need them. AFAIK, nobody on our side of the spectrum is minimizing the need for them. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #119

you made the claim that we don't have to worry about government programs discriminating dsc Sep 2017 #122

I take your point with regards to antidiscrmination measures for the LGBTQ community. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #123

Excellent analysis. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #106

K&R. n/t ms liberty Sep 2017 #7

WTF? kentuck Sep 2017 #8

You CANNOT have economic justice until you establish Social Justice. Lee Adama Sep 2017 #10

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #12

Exactly! leftofcool Sep 2017 #15

We aleggedly have had both loyalsister Sep 2017 #43

An excellent response. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #62

this heaven05 Sep 2017 #132

Wonderful post. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #139

in all honesty clu Sep 2017 #52

Or maybe she would be your boss if she wasn't Kenyan or a woman. KitSileya Sep 2017 #81

no my boss for a time there was also black clu Sep 2017 #88

I'm not assuming anything. You are presuming lots, though. KitSileya Sep 2017 #130

Perhaps. And don't assume clu doesn't see an injustice in that fact. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #138

There was not a hint of that in the post, Ken. KitSileya Sep 2017 #146

We can't totally establish social justice first, in complete isolation from economic justice. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #59

"And economic justice, today, would never be whites-only. " Lee Adama Sep 2017 #60

The reason that happened in the Thirties was that the Democratic congressional leadership Ken Burch Sep 2017 #64

"We don't have any segregationists in our congressional leadership today" Lee Adama Sep 2017 #70

I meant the Democratic congressional leadership Ken Burch Sep 2017 #73

And that brings us back to the fact that there can be NO Economic Justice without Social Justice Lee Adama Sep 2017 #74

Social justice issue drive economic justice for those who aren't white straight men ehrnst Sep 2017 #92

Since there has never been true desegregation Lee Adama Sep 2017 #99

There's no difference between doing both at at the same time, which we would do Ken Burch Sep 2017 #109

The only candidate I have ever heard that from is Hillary Clinton. Lee Adama Sep 2017 #113

We both want both. And Bernie wanted both as much as Hillary. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #124

That's not what I get from Sanders. He is all about economic justice & nothing about social justice Lee Adama Sep 2017 #125

Tell that to those who are yelling at anyone who won't sponsor "Medicare for all." (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #143

Again... have you seen the news? Dems are waffling on whether women's health care ehrnst Sep 2017 #80

Womens health clinics are being shut down JI7 Sep 2017 #89

Until women have Choice, there is no economic justice for them.st ehrnst Sep 2017 #94

A tiny handful are waffling. But choice, at this point, isn't covered by federal civil rights laws Ken Burch Sep 2017 #97

A very public and vocal group is advocating for waffling. One of whom is the most vocal of all. ehrnst Sep 2017 #144

Reps were racist because people electing them were racist - not vice versa. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #93

There was a lot of racism-but if it hadn't been for the Southern committee chairs Ken Burch Sep 2017 #100

You mean economic justice for white working class men. ehrnst Sep 2017 #79

I mean economic justice for ALL-I've never meant it exclusively for white men. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #101

So now you understand that people can indeed say that the New Deal was made smoother by ehrnst Sep 2017 #142

BS heaven05 Sep 2017 #105

they WON'T go together heaven05 Sep 2017 #133

+1000 nt Fresh_Start Sep 2017 #78

How in the hell are these two things separate? DemocraticWing Sep 2017 #145

It's not an actual idea, it's a huge misunderstanding of the point that is made that ehrnst Sep 2017 #11

+1 FakeNoose Sep 2017 #18

New Democrats Different Deal. melanctha Sep 2017 #45

have you seen killer mike's monologue on bernie sanders? clu Sep 2017 #54

Not focusing on race but blacks and women make up large part of the democratic party. melanctha Sep 2017 #83

so he moved to vermont clu Sep 2017 #85

Historical context American history melanctha Sep 2017 #95

Excellent post erhnst, can't recommend it enough. JHan Sep 2017 #32

And all of us agree with you on that. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #66

Nobody is claiming that the same 1930s Jim Crow laws will come back in the ehrnst Sep 2017 #82

It's not just white men who work in the Rust Belt Ken Burch Sep 2017 #103

I always thought Libertarians and AnCaps were the group of FDR Revisionists. HughBeaumont Sep 2017 #19

It's a distraction.. disillusioned73 Sep 2017 #21

We should discuss the health care we can get now...the ACA with a public option down the road. The Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #23

All things have a starting point.. disillusioned73 Sep 2017 #25

When there is no chance of getting it for the foreseeable future and every chance that support for Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #27

I don't intend to be rude.. disillusioned73 Sep 2017 #30

There is no chance for progress as the GOP won't even bring it to the floor... Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #96

I read these threads, and no one said that. However, the idea that the 'new deal' was the be all Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #22

organized labor supported The Democratic Party during the New Deal decades DBoon Sep 2017 #31

Were did the idea that isolationism-nativism-populism-protectionism-and anti-capitalism... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #33

Except Sanders, despite his title, isn't a socialist in the sense FDR understood the term white_wolf Sep 2017 #36

Nor was Huey "Share the Wealth/Every Man A King" Long, who was FDR's mortal enemy. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #48

Name one conservative stance Sanders supports white_wolf Sep 2017 #69

Blacks benefitted little from the New Deal. Blue_true Sep 2017 #34

so blacks don't get social security? i did not know that dembotoz Sep 2017 #38

Not when SS was implemented. Blue_true Sep 2017 #39

And we all agree that it was wrong that people of color were left out of the original New Deal Ken Burch Sep 2017 #51

guess we need to tear down the fdr statues along with the other confederate generals dembotoz Sep 2017 #77

And they didn't get a living minimum wage Warpy Sep 2017 #104

to be clear dsc Sep 2017 #117

Do you think the occupations not covered were random? former9thward Sep 2017 #126

That is right. And that shouldn't have happened. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #49

Ken, you seem like a decent person. I know you and I disagree on some issues. Blue_true Sep 2017 #149

OK. Those are valid points. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #152

New Deal as a name is acceptable. Blue_true Sep 2017 #154

For too many, it is impossible to separate the New Deal label from 1930's racism and sexism Ken Burch Sep 2017 #155

Who has written anything of the sort on DU? MineralMan Sep 2017 #37

You haven't, but it has come up a lot. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #42

As I said, I have not seen such at thing on DU. MineralMan Sep 2017 #44

This is pretty close: TCJ70 Sep 2017 #46

Here's another, more recent, example: TCJ70 Sep 2017 #47

Both of your examples are of people saying that we need MineralMan Sep 2017 #50

They're not just saying that melman Sep 2017 #53

I'm saying that. I have been saying that for a long time. MineralMan Sep 2017 #56

And there's no possibility that New Deal-type measures passed today would exclude people of color Ken Burch Sep 2017 #61

You have easily movable goal posts... TCJ70 Sep 2017 #55

OK, modernize it-but that doesn't have to mean settling for smaller programs Ken Burch Sep 2017 #72

It's all over the 2016 forum. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #57

lol at the people asking for links melman Sep 2017 #40

No one is saying that. GulfCoast66 Sep 2017 #63

OK. LBJ did a lot of excellent things domestically. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #68

And fdr had japanese internment JI7 Sep 2017 #90

And LBJ had a segregationist past and what he did to Vietnam. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #107

On economic justice he included all and the fact you dismisd JI7 Sep 2017 #110

I praised LBJ for the good that he did. It's not LBJ Vs. FDR. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #112

You said it...he does not get talked about as much which is surprising GulfCoast66 Sep 2017 #127

Look, I just now praised the guy. Why are you sniping at ME on this? Ken Burch Sep 2017 #136

"you moderates" betsuni Sep 2017 #140

Not moderate...liberal social democrat GulfCoast66 Sep 2017 #141

How about "Great Society without Vietnam", then"? Ken Burch Sep 2017 #153

Exactly. JI7 Sep 2017 #91

The whites who turned right didn't do that because social programs were open to all. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #115

The whites who turned against it included poor whites JI7 Sep 2017 #118

The 2016 election was fifty-one years after the Great Society started. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #120

FDR took TR's Square Deal, added more, removed much more and re-branded it as the Fair Deal LanternWaste Sep 2017 #65

### NurseJackie Sep 2017 #71

That's not what I was saying. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #111

Sounds like the unholy marriage of the radical right marybourg Sep 2017 #75

Exactly WHO is saying that? It appears that this particular "objection" exists only in your mind. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #84

there is a post in this thread clu Sep 2017 #86

Who is saying this? Squinch Sep 2017 #87

Sounds like the deceptive ploy of turning a positive attribute into a fault eleny Sep 2017 #98

We can have both Social & Economic justice at the same time. IF WE fight for both! JoeOtterbein Sep 2017 #102

It is a cynical tactic to try to avoid supporting progessive economic issues. Willie Pep Sep 2017 #116

Pretzel Logic jalan48 Sep 2017 #121

some people just make shit up. Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #129

"Some people just make up shit. betsuni Sep 2017 #147

I like my version better. Warren DeMontague Sep 2017 #148

Executive Order 8802 Docreed2003 Sep 2017 #134

The people who back New Deal-type measures now have acknowledged the past. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #137