General Discussion

Ninsianna

(1,356 posts)

47. Not really. What they do or do not do on the ACA will be what destroys them

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:02 AM

Sep 2017

since that has actual effects on the people who have been upset with them in their town halls and in all those messages they've been leaving with their staff.

If they can say "the Dems want some "socialized medicine" which would lead to x,y and z and raise your taxes, that issue they were going to lose on, they have a defense for. Their base is not educated, they heal "socialism" they react, they react by voting in their gerrymandered districts and we lose our advantage.

It's not good politics in many districts. Senators might get away with it, but Reps won't. It has nothing to do with Pelosi or the House, so she's right to focus on the things that Democrats can hit Republican Representatives on in upcoming races, where the whole house if up for reelection.

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Pelosi declines to endorse Single Payer bill [View all] Pugster Sep 2017 OP

From the link ... left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #1

That's not what she said though. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #10

I supported it before I learned about just what obstacles there really are ehrnst Sep 2017 #58

Sometimes political expedience determines what is possible. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #76

No, most countries do not have single payer, as described in "Medicare for All" ehrnst Sep 2017 #80

I am sorry, but your negative framing ignores much of reality. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #84

No, it's not simply enrolling everyone into Medicare - that's the actual reality. ehrnst Sep 2017 #85

Thank you ehrnst oppressedproletarian Sep 2017 #121

buy out unitedhealthcare humana aetna clu Sep 2017 #150

Pelosi . . . peggysue2 Sep 2017 #2

How are minority... tonedevil Sep 2017 #4

Ultimately, they may not peggysue2 Sep 2017 #6

Wise words SHRED Sep 2017 #154

They have a greater chance at getting GOP votes on measures to protect the ACA Ninsianna Sep 2017 #12

Are you saying that ... tonedevil Sep 2017 #15

If they think that this bill has an actual chance, then they're fooling themselves. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #16

Exactly! peggysue2 Sep 2017 #17

You are... tonedevil Sep 2017 #18

It is a purity test, it was intended to be so. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #19

What that I wrote... tonedevil Sep 2017 #20

Well there were all those inferences, the references to vitriol and the general tone Ninsianna Sep 2017 #44

Just because you call... tonedevil Sep 2017 #62

Just because you deny a fact, doesn't make it any less of one. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #79

You have not presented a fact... tonedevil Sep 2017 #87

Perhaps if there was less time spent in "inferences" and getting all angry Ninsianna Sep 2017 #89

You have your opinion... tonedevil Sep 2017 #92

Actually, it's not just opinion, it's policy. And no, your opinion does not make it fact. ehrnst Sep 2017 #95

What is this policy... tonedevil Sep 2017 #98

I know the Democratic party is a better choice, but tell that to the career politician ehrnst Sep 2017 #100

I get it... tonedevil Sep 2017 #103

I get it - you equate criticism of Single Payer with criticism of Sanders ehrnst Sep 2017 #128

You remain condescending... tonedevil Sep 2017 #132

I pretty much took your post word for word..... ehrnst Sep 2017 #133

I admit I had never seen false... tonedevil Sep 2017 #134

wow so much patience clu Sep 2017 #153

damn buddy clu Sep 2017 #159

I also have facts and a understanding of reality and the written word on my side. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #106

What specifically... tonedevil Sep 2017 #113

Pretty much everything you're attacking me for. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #115

You have absolutely nothing... tonedevil Sep 2017 #117

Except the things I pointed out. Please stop with the dishonesty. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #135

You accuse me of lying... tonedevil Sep 2017 #146

I accused you of stating I said things that I did not. This is a lie Ninsianna Sep 2017 #147

You should try... tonedevil Sep 2017 #149

I already have, it requires literacy and honesty to acknwledge that. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #152

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #129

Vanity bill like "Repeal and Replace" and doesn't expect to pass, so it doesn't have details ehrnst Sep 2017 #86

It's not a unique concept in politics, not sure where all the malicious anger is Ninsianna Sep 2017 #88

Well, that's just it. Someone seems to think he owns the concept. ehrnst Sep 2017 #93

A bunch of angry someones who don't quite understand what's happening. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #109

But think of all those bubbles that would be burst! ehrnst Sep 2017 #111

Those are some lucrative bubbles! Ninsianna Sep 2017 #116

Yeah, those bubbles are keeping some 2020 POTUS run hopes alive. ehrnst Sep 2017 #130

HA, the fact that you have "compiled a list of Democrats who are R B Garr Sep 2017 #42

Well, those inferences and the "vitriol" sounded pretty angry, didn't they? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #45

So you are saying... tonedevil Sep 2017 #65

No, I'm saying you are making a list, checking it twice. R B Garr Sep 2017 #67

Are you saying... tonedevil Sep 2017 #68

You said you were making a list of Democrats who didn't acknowledge Sanders. R B Garr Sep 2017 #70

When did I say that? /nt tonedevil Sep 2017 #73

Not neccessarily you but others who are convinced that any disagreement ehrnst Sep 2017 #102

And yet... tonedevil Sep 2017 #104

I think you may be confusing me with another poster? ehrnst Sep 2017 #105

I thought you... tonedevil Sep 2017 #112

I have no idea what you are talking about now. ehrnst Sep 2017 #139

Multiple reply threads... tonedevil Sep 2017 #145

Speak for your own posts. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #183

Weird how it's everyone else that's "hostile" and "vitriolic" huh? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #155

+1000. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #101

Most of them are "hopefuls" for higher office so they're positioning themselves and going along... brush Sep 2017 #36

Here Here sacto95834 Sep 2017 #38

Some see it as an exercise in futility until we regain power... brush Sep 2017 #41

Yep, it's become dogma - just like voting for "repeal and replace"was for years on the right. ehrnst Sep 2017 #107

I think they are actually. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #46

Well said. It's a slogan not a plan, and we need an actual plan, with funding. brush Sep 2017 #120

That is a dirty word, and shows that you have a crass concern with money ehrnst Sep 2017 #140

I wish you were just engaging in hyperbole, but sadly you're not. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #156

Absolutely. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #81

It's become "repeal and replace " for Democrats ehrnst Sep 2017 #94

Most of those folks are simply defending themselves from comradebillyboy Sep 2017 #131

The are Senators, isn't this discussion about Pelosi's (correct) decision.... George II Sep 2017 #162

The way they were able to prevent its repeal. The question you would need to ask is would the 3 still_one Sep 2017 #30

thanks for sharing clu Sep 2017 #151

She is not particularly strong about women having agency over their own bodies... demmiblue Sep 2017 #3

What are you talking about? mcar Sep 2017 #8

That is completely untrue...single payer is a risk. Right now we have no chance of passing it. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #9

what is the risk of promoting it? I don't get that at all. She certainly is't going to lose her JCanete Sep 2017 #33

Why spend time and money on something that isn't going to come about? Wasn't that what ehrnst Sep 2017 #59

Well jesus, you could say that about anything in the short term. You spend time and money on JCanete Sep 2017 #61

But we are not talking about "anything" we are talking about ehrnst Sep 2017 #75

except that it doesn't have to be cheap, we just have to get the money from the people who have it. JCanete Sep 2017 #77

Because right now it take time and attention away from what should be efforts to save the ACA. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #74

True sacto95834 Sep 2017 #39

Not really. What they do or do not do on the ACA will be what destroys them Ninsianna Sep 2017 #47

That is what some here don't understand. if we lose the ACA...the "it's Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #175

It doesn't seem to matter if that claim will not fly, they use many claims that do not fly Ninsianna Sep 2017 #180

You must be getting her confused with the people who were supporting and endorsing Ninsianna Sep 2017 #13

Really. . . peggysue2 Sep 2017 #21

You'll of course, support your allegation with objective evidence to support it as such, yes? LanternWaste Sep 2017 #66

dem bashers rarely do uponit7771 Sep 2017 #91

... HarmonyRockets Sep 2017 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #29

She is smart. This is a bad idea right now with no chance of passing a single payer bill...very Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #7

So Nancy Pelosi is officially (unofficially) not running for president in 2020. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #11

I know that people will hate all over Pelosi for this Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2017 #14

protect it by giving the GOP a reason to leave it alone. Push for something even better. JCanete Sep 2017 #63

Bravo to Pelosi for what the Leadeship MUST do considering current political conditions! Lee Adama Sep 2017 #22

Current political conditions support single payer. ZX86 Sep 2017 #23

No, they don't. Lee Adama Sep 2017 #24

And how is that different from women's rights, gay rights, and civil rights? ZX86 Sep 2017 #25

But this is PRECISELY how things happened in history! Lee Adama Sep 2017 #26

They don't erect statues, writes songs, and declare holidays for incrementalists. ZX86 Sep 2017 #32

Who cares? Lee Adama Sep 2017 #37

Who cares? ZX86 Sep 2017 #40

Every last on of those achievements came via incrementalism Lee Adama Sep 2017 #54

Why is this the standard? Need I remind you of all the racists, rapists and murderers who have Ninsianna Sep 2017 #48

The items you mentioned did start locally. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #28

And how many Americans have to suffer and die before you think it's worthwhile to fight ZX86 Sep 2017 #34

How many Americans must suffer and die while you ignore their immediate needs and their Ninsianna Sep 2017 #49

None. I'm fighting now. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #52

Universal health care doesn't have to be single payer. Most other countries have multi-payer ehrnst Sep 2017 #124

I approach health care with the moral equivalent of defense spending. ZX86 Sep 2017 #158

Because legislating social justice is different than retrofitting something that is 17% of the GDP. ehrnst Sep 2017 #60

Actually, if you dig deeper into actual polling... ehrnst Sep 2017 #99

Think tank twaddle that doesn't mean diddly squat to me. ZX86 Sep 2017 #118

We don't need no stinking experts! - the climate deniers ehrnst Sep 2017 #123

You've got to be kidding. ZX86 Sep 2017 #136

What "corporate funded hack opinion piece" ehrnst Sep 2017 #137

From your hack opinion piece. ZX86 Sep 2017 #141

You still haven't demostrated how KFF is a "corporate hack." ehrnst Sep 2017 #143

I'll concede that KFF by in large are NOT corporate hacks.....however ZX86 Sep 2017 #144

Um... it's the opinion of the President of KFF. ehrnst Sep 2017 #163

Those charts are not reflected... SHRED Sep 2017 #157

Pelosi knows they are playing politics with this bill. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #27

So you consider John Conyers a failure? ZX86 Sep 2017 #35

Why would you impugn John Conyers? Were you under the impression that he was a Senator? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #50

wtf are you even talking about? What are you even referencing with that shade? JCanete Sep 2017 #64

Shade? The person I replied to dragged John Conyers into something in the Senate. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #71

you are either misunderstanding or not being entirely truthful if you think Coneyers is being JCanete Sep 2017 #72

The only one being untruthful here and the only one happily being as crappy Ninsianna Sep 2017 #78

Thank you. ZX86 Sep 2017 #119

He doesn't have half the name recognition of Sanders. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #53

how are you missing the point? JCanete Sep 2017 #69

Are you serious? Do you know anything about John Conyers or what he's accomplished... George II Sep 2017 #122

I actually love Conyers, but that's not an untrue statement. Do you think most people know wtf is JCanete Sep 2017 #160

His single payer bill has failed many times. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #125

is that how you actually rate a failure? nt JCanete Sep 2017 #161

Not passing? I think that's the definition of failure of a bill. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #164

the person promoting it is a failure? Was Mandela a failure while Aparthide persisted and he sat in JCanete Sep 2017 #166

Nice strawman. And very dramatic! ehrnst Sep 2017 #167

it isn't a straw man. Do you know what a straw man is? This is an exaggerated and real world JCanete Sep 2017 #168

You misrepresented my post to make it easier to attack. ehrnst Sep 2017 #169

no it isn't. Your answer was in response to a question about whether Conyers was a failure. What JCanete Sep 2017 #170

Show me where I said that. ehrnst Sep 2017 #171

Sure thing. JCanete Sep 2017 #173

I think that you are forgetting that the original statement by ZX86 ehrnst Sep 2017 #174

no, because I never forgot that. That was why the person asked, using htat metric, whether or not JCanete Sep 2017 #179

What you take away from it after my explanation isn't my issue. ehrnst Sep 2017 #181

I accept your explanation, I don't get what you were trying to convey in the context your statement JCanete Sep 2017 #184

Thank you. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #185

Yes, a bill that doesn't pass is a failure...it failed to pass and is completely useless to anyone. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #176

context. Question originally posed wasn't about a bill. It was about whether or not Conyers was a JCanete Sep 2017 #178

My post was about the bill. You made it about the man. ehrnst Sep 2017 #182

Another important issue put off indefinitely Bad Thoughts Sep 2017 #31

Of course she's Snackshack Sep 2017 #43

Pelosi needs to get woke Not Ruth Sep 2017 #51

It may be a losing issue for us as the GOP prepares to demonize it. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #177

Such leadership... berni_mccoy Sep 2017 #55

Glad somebody finally said it. ucrdem Sep 2017 #56

Sorry to agree. Strategically, she has a point... VOX Sep 2017 #57

Yep. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #82

Remember the freakout when people had to change insurance, because their employers ehrnst Sep 2017 #83

People are asking you questions. Perhaps you'd MineralMan Sep 2017 #90

The Single Payer bill is going nowhere now. Willie Pep Sep 2017 #96

Yep. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #172

Who has the right healthcare plan for you? HarmonyRockets Sep 2017 #97

Argument by cartoon. I guess that settles that. ehrnst Sep 2017 #108

hoo boy you got me HarmonyRockets Sep 2017 #114

Here is an analysis of his 2016 bill that I've read ehrnst Sep 2017 #126

You're really pushing that thing... TCJ70 Sep 2017 #142

Still stings, doesn't it? (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #165

No rebuttal? No surprise.(nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #138

Pelosi knows what she is talking about. She does not waste time b*llshitting us. Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #110

She's not planning a run for POTUS in 2020, and doesn't feel the need to. ehrnst Sep 2017 #127

She is 100% right. nt Blue_true Sep 2017 #148