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In reply to the discussion: Urban Institute analysis of Sanders Single Payer Plan: May 2016 [View all]ehrnst
(32,640 posts)97. First off, Universal Health Care is not interchangeable with Single Payer
any more than Teacup Yorkie is interchangeable with canine, so the trope that anyone who thinks Single Payer isn't the best way, out of several, to get to universal healthcare is incorrect. Knowing something about what you are "jumping on board with," is important.
Most of the rest of the world uses multi-payer programs to achieve Universal Health Care Coverage.
The term single-payer is itself misleading. The truth is that many of the systems we refer to as single-payer are a lot more complicated than we tend to think they are. Canada, for example, finances basic health care through six provincial payers. Its Medicare system provides good, basic coverage, but around two in three Canadians purchase supplemental insurance because it doesnt cover things like prescription drugs, dental health, or vision care. About 30 percent of all Canadian health care is financed through the private sector.
Most countries have mixed funding schemes that vary in complexity, and the term single-payer may be giving some people a false promise. Conyerss Medicare-for-All bill promises to cover virtually everything while banishing out-of-pocket costs, but no other health-care system offers such expansive benefits. Even people living in Scandinavian social democracies face out-of-pocket expenses: In 2015, the most recent year for OECD data, the Swedes covered 15 percent of their health costs out-of-pocket; in Norway, it was 14 percent and the Finns shelled out 20 percent out-of-pocket.
Most countries have mixed funding schemes that vary in complexity, and the term single-payer may be giving some people a false promise. Conyerss Medicare-for-All bill promises to cover virtually everything while banishing out-of-pocket costs, but no other health-care system offers such expansive benefits. Even people living in Scandinavian social democracies face out-of-pocket expenses: In 2015, the most recent year for OECD data, the Swedes covered 15 percent of their health costs out-of-pocket; in Norway, it was 14 percent and the Finns shelled out 20 percent out-of-pocket.
So, by your definition, nearly all of the countries that have achieved universal health care, "Don't have it," "don't believe in it, "and don't see healthcare as a right." Which is clearly not the case at all.
Now that you know the difference between the terms "single payer" and "universal health care" dismissing all people who are able to distinguish between with backhanded demonization like "they don't believe health care is a right" or just don't "believe" in Universal Health Care is not only misinformed, it's insulting and counterproductive. Nearly as much as when Single Payer or bust advocates say that anyone who sees real problems with focusing on the one most expensive and hard to implement path to Universal Coverage is "corrupt," and a "stooge for big insurance."
So, are we clear on that now?
But there are several paths to universal health care coverage. Single-payer can be one of them but it isnt the only one. Indeed, many countries have reached the goal using methodologies other than single-payer, including varying blends of public and private coverage.
Too many progressives and others fail to distinguish between universal coverage and single-payer. The terms are used interchangeably in private conversations and in the national arena.
As we consider the most effective strategy for achieving universal coverage, progressives should keep two admonitions in mind. First, we must not conflate our foremost health care goal (universal coverage) with competing pathways toward achieving that goal. Second, recognizing that our differences are about strategy and not final goals, the dialogue should be undertaken with mutual respect.
Too many progressives and others fail to distinguish between universal coverage and single-payer. The terms are used interchangeably in private conversations and in the national arena.
As we consider the most effective strategy for achieving universal coverage, progressives should keep two admonitions in mind. First, we must not conflate our foremost health care goal (universal coverage) with competing pathways toward achieving that goal. Second, recognizing that our differences are about strategy and not final goals, the dialogue should be undertaken with mutual respect.
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/9/8/16271888/health-care-single-payer-aca-democratic-agenda
Medicare-for-All is really smart politics. Medicare is not only popular, its also familiar. Many of us have parents or grandparents who are enrolled in the program. And polls show that a significant majority of Americans now believe that its the governments responsibility to provide health coverage for all.
But from a policy standpoint, Medicare-for-All is probably the hardest way to get there. In fact, a number of experts who tout the benefits of single-payer systems say that the Medicare-for-All proposals currently on the table may be virtually impossible to enact. The timing alone would cause serious shocks to the system. Conyerss House bill would move almost everyone in the country into Medicare within a single year. We dont know exactly what Bernie Sanders will propose in the Senate, but his 2013 American Health Security Act had a two-year transition period. Radically restructuring a sixth of the economy in such short order would be like trying to stop a cruise ship on a dime.
Harold Pollack, a University of Chicago public-health researcher and liberal advocate for universal coverage, says, There has not yet been a detailed single-payer bill thats laid out the transitional issues about how to get from here to there. Weve never actually seen that. Even if you believe everything people say about the cost savings that would result, there are still so many detailed questions about how we should finance this, how we can deal with the shock to the system, and so on.
But from a policy standpoint, Medicare-for-All is probably the hardest way to get there. In fact, a number of experts who tout the benefits of single-payer systems say that the Medicare-for-All proposals currently on the table may be virtually impossible to enact. The timing alone would cause serious shocks to the system. Conyerss House bill would move almost everyone in the country into Medicare within a single year. We dont know exactly what Bernie Sanders will propose in the Senate, but his 2013 American Health Security Act had a two-year transition period. Radically restructuring a sixth of the economy in such short order would be like trying to stop a cruise ship on a dime.
Harold Pollack, a University of Chicago public-health researcher and liberal advocate for universal coverage, says, There has not yet been a detailed single-payer bill thats laid out the transitional issues about how to get from here to there. Weve never actually seen that. Even if you believe everything people say about the cost savings that would result, there are still so many detailed questions about how we should finance this, how we can deal with the shock to the system, and so on.
https://www.thenation.com/article/medicare-for-all-isnt-the-solution-for-universal-health-care/
BTW - the space race was part of the Cold War effort to get to space and neutralize Soviet satellites, and JFK's moon shot speech was a way to get the public behind the spending on that program.
Believe me - if Universal Health Care coverage was in any way useful to neutralize ISIS, DT would be out giving speeches as to how it will Make America Great Again.
But hey, who knew health care could be so complicated?
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The Urban Institute is a creditable organization. They did much of the work establishing Medicare's
Hoyt
Sep 2017
#1
what? fuck that. You say some shit as if ..."it can't be all these 3 things" and you say that for
JCanete
Sep 2017
#67
It can't. This is an axiom of project management. A big & complicated project cannot be all three.
stevenleser
Sep 2017
#76
I did not see where the poster indicated that the bill was going for fast and cheap, only that it
JCanete
Sep 2017
#78
So insurance as it stands, which is gouging the fuck out of people, and granted, often has massive
JCanete
Sep 2017
#96
I am not going to read the whole thing, does it relieve employers buying health insurance
Eliot Rosewater
Sep 2017
#4
Taxes being much higher than anticipated were part of why VT single payer failed.(n)
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#8
That was the problem with the California proposal, and the Democratic Speaker....
George II
Sep 2017
#22
"The increases in federal spending that we estimated ($32 trillion between 2017 and 2026)"
TCJ70
Sep 2017
#24
I'm basing that on the fact that we currently spend around $3.8 Trillion annually...
TCJ70
Sep 2017
#30
Don't worry Sanders is only the sponsor/visionary-he did his part in moving the needle
andym
Sep 2017
#46
MFA would radically change things, could happen quickly and would be disruptive in a good way
andym
Sep 2017
#62
Delivery of care will not be disrupted if universal healthcare is engineered carefully
andym
Sep 2017
#94
We are jumping on board based on the principle of achieving universal health care
andym
Sep 2017
#95
America is the only industrialized nation in the world incapable of implementing universal coverage.
Orsino
Sep 2017
#20
Sanders has a say in what goes into the bill, but no more than any other co-sponsor.
Orsino
Sep 2017
#109
Bernie is not known for drumming up support among his colleagues to write a bill.
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#122
Your statement that he is tweaking it with other Senators has the burden of proof
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#124
So now you say who wrote and edits the bill isn't important but it DEFINITELY isn't just Bernie...
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#135
They would have been more trustworthy had they revealed their conflict of interest in the analysis
Major Nikon
Sep 2017
#48
People have been saying that on DU over and over again - anyone know if they REALLY....
George II
Sep 2017
#70
Do you also tell your students that a source that presents a barely edited Wikipedia copy/paste
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#80
You keep bringing up Sourcewatch and their inaccurate comment about Cigna and Pfizer. Why?
George II
Sep 2017
#51
Because it means they don't have to read or learn something they don't wanna. (nt)
ehrnst
Sep 2017
#56
According to the Urban League's annual report only 1.4% of their funding comes from....
George II
Sep 2017
#50
They have four or five annual reports and also audited financial statements on their site....
George II
Sep 2017
#63
More evidence why I think we should be working to architect a two-tier or dual-tier system from the
stevenleser
Sep 2017
#77