General Discussion

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)

58. You do understand

Fri Sep 22, 2017, 03:16 PM

Sep 2017

that it was the electoral defeat in 2010 of a huge percentage of the blue dogs (who, incidentally, owed their first terms to the coattails of Barack Obama) that handed Congress over to the Republicans, right? You do understand that those same blue dogs REFUSED to defend Obamacare or THEIR PRESIDENT in 2010, right? You do understand that absent a Republican majority in Congress from 2010 forward, Obamacare would have not only been safe, it wouldn't have been gutted, right?

THAT is recorded history. THAT is the real world.

You do understand that the claim that the introduction of MFA increased the chances of Obamacare's demise is an OPINION and nothing more, right? You do understand that MANY political experts disagree with that opinion, INCLUDING three young United States Senators who many consider this party's future leaders?

I only ask this because, when you come at people calling them "starry-eyed" or saying that reasonable people can't communicate with them, I believe you should have something more than just a difference of OPINION to back it up.

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I have deliberately avoided the Bernie Wars. [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 OP

Murdercare cannot be defended virtualobserver Sep 2017 #1

It can't be defended to you and me. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 #2

Just don't hold your breath waiting for Dana Bash to call out the lies and bullshit elehhhhna Sep 2017 #30

They should not even mention single payer. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #29

Is Sanders the right pick for this debate? You just know single-payer is going to be brought up... brush Sep 2017 #34

Probably not a setup. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #38

It's not Klobuchar I'm worried about. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #52

And why not.Compared to single payer Graham"s onit2day Sep 2017 #40

All of that is good but most people don't know Democratic Socialism from socialism. brush Sep 2017 #50

All true. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #61

Because we are talking about the ACA...single payer is not possible. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #99

According to the Washington Post, CNN went to Sanders directly, lapucelle Sep 2017 #164

They don't have to address SP, but can they avoid being distracted? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #51

Easily.....the Republican bill is an abomination virtualobserver Sep 2017 #57

He's not a good debater, he gets distracted easily and he doesn't have the facts Ninsianna Sep 2017 #60

give me an example of a poor performance virtualobserver Sep 2017 #62

Every debate is an example. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #67

so, you think that he sucks universally.... virtualobserver Sep 2017 #70

I think he's a poor debater because he cannot effectively form coherent arguments that Ninsianna Sep 2017 #71

No, my point is that he doesn't persuade you....but he persuades millions of others. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #73

If that was your point, you failed to make it. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #76

All you offer is your opinion. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #79

Indeed, one that's backed up by reality that he keeps failing to Ninsianna Sep 2017 #85

you continue to post your opinion, which does not persuade virtualobserver Sep 2017 #86

You continue to post yours that Bernie is a masterdebater Ninsianna Sep 2017 #90

I never said that Bernie was a "masterdebater" virtualobserver Sep 2017 #91

You keep claiming that debate equals persusasion, while ignoring the fact tha this history Ninsianna Sep 2017 #100

Are you for real? Pauldg47 Sep 2017 #124

Are you? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #125

Are you a trusted and beloved US Senator? ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #127

Neither are you, so if I'm to be silenced, I'll have a great deal of comany Ninsianna Sep 2017 #129

Silenced? My odd little rules? ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #133

yeah, that was my reaction to your posts as well. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #134

Those people already agree with him. He is not a good debater. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #101

he persuades virtualobserver Sep 2017 #104

I was a debater...and he is not good. Those who are agree with him are Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #110

He persuaded 18 Senators to sign onto his single payer bill. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #112

Persuaded? I don't think so. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #119

Kirsten Gillibrand thinks so. I'll trust her judgment. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #122

That makes one of us...endorsing a single payer bill during the fight for the ACA has crossed her Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #137

what Gillibrand "gets" is that it is easier to get what you want in a negotiation between A and Z... virtualobserver Sep 2017 #138

She did not want to be attacked as those who have not come out for single payer are on a daily basis Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #141

if you want to believe the worst in people, that is fine. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #142

No, he didn't. They did some political calculations, they didn't succumb to Ninsianna Sep 2017 #128

I quite agree with you. Promee Sep 2017 #121

They've already done so, that whole press conference the other day was attacking Obama and Ninsianna Sep 2017 #130

Oh geeze....here we go again. So tell us.... George II Sep 2017 #77

You are familiar with the polls. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #81

Right, and in none of them is he "the most popular politician in the US". George II Sep 2017 #83

the most popular active politician, then virtualobserver Sep 2017 #84

Than Donald Trump and Mike Pence, and not even very much more than them Ninsianna Sep 2017 #88

That is the way that it works.....You just have to be more popular than everyone else. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #92

Except he never has been. That's why all this jr high school popularity Ninsianna Sep 2017 #105

Not even that. George II Sep 2017 #96

who is more popular, then? virtualobserver Sep 2017 #97

A number of politicians are "popular" among a larger group of voters than him. George II Sep 2017 #98

so, none of them are as popular as Sanders then virtualobserver Sep 2017 #102

Yes they are, and I'm not "playing with words", I'm realistically looking at facts. George II Sep 2017 #109

you are not presenting any facts, you are making assertions virtualobserver Sep 2017 #113

Sorry, YOU have not presented any facts, just a sweeping proclamation about the relative.... George II Sep 2017 #114

I referred to polls......you have not revealed the source of your information. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #115

Well, I originally responded to this: George II Sep 2017 #116

I have shown those polls before, and I am sure that you have seen them. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #117

Here is the methodology of that poll, and the limited, cherry-picked choices for respondents.... George II Sep 2017 #118

I've seen multiple polls this year. Bernie outpolls the field in all of them virtualobserver Sep 2017 #123

Um, yeah, that's kinda why he "wins" all these popularity polls you keep insisting Ninsianna Sep 2017 #126

Right.....polling high with the public is a bad sign. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #135

As you stated, when the small group of people who are compared Ninsianna Sep 2017 #158

you do realize that in order to be popular, people have to know you. virtualobserver Sep 2017 #161

You do realize that this obsession with popularity is rather unhealthy right? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #162

I give him credit for helping the Democratic Party to come to its senses virtualobserver Sep 2017 #163

The party did not require him to "come to their senses" about their own Ninsianna Sep 2017 #165

He didn't win the only poll that mattered. In fact, he lost that poll by millions lunamagica Sep 2017 #132

and yet it is Bernie who is influencing the direction of the Democratic Party... virtualobserver Sep 2017 #136

Bernie Sanders is not the leader nor ever will be of the Democratic Party. He is being Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #143

That is your opinion...I'm with Gillibrand virtualobserver Sep 2017 #145

So, I've demonstrated the mega flaws in your poll, so you go on to other unspecified polls. George II Sep 2017 #155

Multiple polls say that Bernie is the most popular and all the polls are flawed virtualobserver Sep 2017 #156

Well you've only given us one, and it was pointed out how that one was flawed. You countered.... George II Sep 2017 #157

not an insult....just pattern recognition virtualobserver Sep 2017 #159

You forgot to mention lapucelle Sep 2017 #166

Try taking a poll if we lose the ACA. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #103

Bernie is the one who has been travelling the country attacking the Republicans for this virtualobserver Sep 2017 #106

No he hasn't...he has been bringing up single payer everywhere... and putting out an ACA replacement Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #108

He has been attacking Republicans for their many "repeal and replace" plans virtualobserver Sep 2017 #111

Graham will get him to attack the ACA wait for it...he talks single payer and attacks the GOP bill Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #120

harvard national poll in August - he is the most popular active politician in the U.S.: Liberty Belle Sep 2017 #131

Well said. Pointing out the obvious is necessary sometimes. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #107

Great name. Blue_true Sep 2017 #89

THank you. concreteblue Sep 2017 #3

+1 The wars are the same cast of characters over and over. Very boring and counterproductive. TheBlackAdder Sep 2017 #24

There is no defending this republican abomination workinclasszero Sep 2017 #4

K&R for the support GaryCnf Sep 2017 #5

Obama ran away from the ACA? Are you serious? George II Sep 2017 #7

This is probably a grammar problem on my part GaryCnf Sep 2017 #10

Yes, thanks. George II Sep 2017 #11

Welcome GaryCnf Sep 2017 #12

I read it the wrong way at first so thanks for that. lunasun Sep 2017 #13

I agree marylandblue Sep 2017 #9

But it's so much easier to bash Bernie & not self-reflect on mistakes the Party made. CrispyQ Sep 2017 #17

If Bernie sticks to fixing the ACA and how terrible it is rather then slinging his plan I say GOOD. Old Vet Sep 2017 #36

and he is- heres a direct quote for you- " Sunlei Sep 2017 #56

and here is another quote from 9/18-first one is from 9/19. The man make daily pro ACA statements. Sunlei Sep 2017 #59

This should be a thread OP of its own. klook Sep 2017 #75

start on, go to bernies twitter and he has a bunch of pro ACA statements. what will happen is Sunlei Sep 2017 #78

Bernie HAS been touring the country pushing just that. Maybe folks should concentrate on defeating onecaliberal Sep 2017 #80

now Crispy, remember Bernie himself said only a couple weeks ago- Sunlei Sep 2017 #63

Attack, attack and attack some more...the Democratic Party...the only vehicle for Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #144

Thank you! Welcome to DU! And YOU ARE CORRECT!!! Raster Sep 2017 #26

+1000 HughBeaumont Sep 2017 #37

Of course! peggysue2 Sep 2017 #42

You do understand GaryCnf Sep 2017 #58

I hope it doesn't deteriorate into an infomercial for "medicare for all", that is NOT the topic. George II Sep 2017 #6

+1 oasis Sep 2017 #53

Just the facts, mam world wide wally Sep 2017 #8

I saw Bernie debate Ted Cruz Raven123 Sep 2017 #14

I didn't see the Cruz debate, but I haven't been impressed with his debate skills. thesquanderer Sep 2017 #15

But is Bernie defending the ACA or Single Payer? mchill Sep 2017 #21

Sanders isn't promoting single payer leftstreet Sep 2017 #25

Whatever you call it and I don't give two fucks about that...it is not the ACA which is what must Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #146

Not one single HC involved group supports this plan onit2day Sep 2017 #41

I saw it too and reached the same conclusions. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #68

Bernie did great against Ted Cruz CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #140

If I were Bernie or Amy, my question would be to ask both of them to explain the following : Chasstev365 Sep 2017 #16

I love both Amy and Bernie but nevergiveup Sep 2017 #18

Or Al Franken and Howard Dean, an actual doctor. nt SunSeeker Sep 2017 #31

Howard Dean would have been my top choice wryter2000 Sep 2017 #94

Take the bait? How can he defend his plan attacking onit2day Sep 2017 #43

+1000 LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #47

Thanks DSB. MontanaMama Sep 2017 #19

Does not matter if Bernie and Klouchbar make them look stupid. standingtall Sep 2017 #20

They know Sanders will have a hard time giving the ACA strong and full throated support. He has to. bettyellen Sep 2017 #33

This is the plan...to make Sen. Sanders denounce the ACA and promote MFA. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #147

The GOP is certainly going to try that. I worry that he can't be passionate about it... bettyellen Sep 2017 #154

I worry too...and no doubt they will throw his words back at him. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #168

Hoping for the best as well. Thank you so much for posting. emulatorloo Sep 2017 #22

We need Amy to come through here. She will have to carry the weakest debater in the group. nt LexVegas Sep 2017 #23

Yeah, all this bickering between Hillary and Bernie loyalists is pretty depressing. Bucky Sep 2017 #27

Unfortunately, this is a CNN fabricated debate - it's about ratings. LeftInTX Sep 2017 #28

The vote will not turn on this debate. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #32

I will hold every person involved in putting out a single payer/MFA bill at this time, that can't be Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #148

I believe that this will be Bernie's finest hour, so do those who want him to fail Not Ruth Sep 2017 #35

I dont believe anyone wants Bernie to fail, Just represent fixing the ACA like a democratic would... Old Vet Sep 2017 #39

He's already done that in his town halll onit2day Sep 2017 #44

This debate is gonna be prime time, The big time. Theres alot riding on how he represents...... Old Vet Sep 2017 #48

I doubt you'd find less of a fan of Bernie Sanders than I am... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #69

I don't believe anyone wants Bernie to fail here, it's just that we've seen him Ninsianna Sep 2017 #72

Courage! LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #45

Thank you for the OP DSB. I've avoided them as well; dae Sep 2017 #46

Its perfectly alright not to like Sanders, Just like Clinton. But at some point........... Old Vet Sep 2017 #49

Not sure what prompted your response. I get the Clinton/Sanders supporters feud, dae Sep 2017 #54

"... the Bernie Wars?" left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #55

No it's not. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #64

Yes, it is left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #65

There's no evidence to support your claim. The primary is over so there are no "one-sided" attacks NurseJackie Sep 2017 #66

"fair and valid criticism" left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #167

"one-sided" NurseJackie Sep 2017 #169

This is Democratic Underground Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #160

The sad truth is that this debate won't matter much in the short term. Jim Lane Sep 2017 #74

Sane perspective. Thanks. (nt) klook Sep 2017 #82

While what you say is true wryter2000 Sep 2017 #95

I don't agree. This debate is another distraction, and a way for the GOP to Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #149

I have a question about the "distraction" problem that so concerns you. Jim Lane Sep 2017 #150

They are going to do fine in the debate. PatrickforO Sep 2017 #87

Amen to that wryter2000 Sep 2017 #93

If anybody is going to fight about health care on our side CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #139

Bernie and Amy WILL crush... there's a reason single-payer healthcare polls so well. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #151

Bernie is the only one that makes sense to me. n/t RKP5637 Sep 2017 #152

Your positive energy paid off GaryCnf Sep 2017 #153

. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #170

Not since the primaries. I regret the time I wasted that I can never get back. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2017 #171

Unfortunately, the only thing they can now do is blow it. gulliver Sep 2017 #172