General Discussion

Squinch

(59,642 posts)

65. No. It's NOT a fake concern. We have a newly proposed program that would be huge.

Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:23 PM

Sep 2017

What the fuck is wrong with asking how we are going to implement it? Are we as irresponsible as Republicans who just throw out laws that are full of words that they think will play to the base, but no one is allowed to ask any questions about how they will work?

Yeah, yeah. I know. I'm just a troll because I'm asking the question.

But, you know I'm not. What I AM is someone who is noticing how effectively this ridiculous article manufactures a division that is NOT there ("Oh noes! Look at all these people on DU who are against universal healthcare" when there are NONE here who are against universal healthcare) and how ready some are to call people trolls when they know damn well that they aren't trolls.

The article is a filthy effort coming from people who are not on ANY of our sides, spread by lots of brand new folks to create new divisions among us.

And this is the third time someone here has fallen for it.

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Universal health care "concern trolls" . . [View all] FairWinds Sep 2017 OP

I have not seen one person against universal healthcare here. Not one. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #1

The headline in link... CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #3

This is third time that I know of this article has been posted here. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #4

Single payer though? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #5

Single payer is a method, NOT universal healthcare ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #7

Single payer IS universal healthcare CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #8

Im sure you do ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #10

Okay. CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #11

It's not okay that hostile agents are on DU busily fanny small division into Hortensis Sep 2017 #25

Great post. sharedvalues Sep 2017 #129

Check this out! CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #138

You agree also I should make an OP about you as a force for unity on DU? Hortensis Sep 2017 #141

Thanks CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #144

Okay, interesting group. That kind of cohesion can be hard to achieve. Hortensis Sep 2017 #148

It's actually rather easy! CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #154

Huh! Those are all Democratic Party issues; and, let's face it, Hortensis Sep 2017 #161

Funny you mention that CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #219

Well, good luck. My master gardener group once worked on a project Hortensis Sep 2017 #220

Is your 20% group of Democrats and the rest Independents working on R B Garr Sep 2017 #240

Should we look for WillyT? (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #149

Who's that? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #155

LOL! (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #156

I guess the jokes on me apparently? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #157

Lol ehrnst Sep 2017 #158

AH!! Yes indeed...... R B Garr Sep 2017 #163

WillyT goes to the tavern or pub, not the meeting. betsuni Sep 2017 #164

"new faces" R B Garr Sep 2017 #169

Indeed! CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #171

Yes, a board to SUPPORT DEMOCRATS. I'm sure the new faces will be very R B Garr Sep 2017 #178

Familiar? How so? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #180

Don't they support Democrats?? How could that not be familiar?? R B Garr Sep 2017 #182

All the Democrats or people who support Democrats that I know and who are active online.... George II Sep 2017 #186

Exactly, which makes you wonder about the third party angle. Promoting third parties R B Garr Sep 2017 #191

Unless I'm mistaken CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #205

Go re-read what I said George CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #202

It's the Our Revolution revelation. Some are skeptical because Nina Turner has said... brush Sep 2017 #213

Ok, now I am really lost CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #204

Universal coverage and single payer are not the same thing. lapucelle Sep 2017 #117

Many of the countries that have universal healthcare, like Switzerland and Canada, pnwmom Sep 2017 #33

Right. That's fine. So what ... are you KPN Sep 2017 #62

NO. But I was not happy about the TIMING of Bernie's latest announcement, pnwmom Sep 2017 #70

So it's about Bernie primarily. KPN Sep 2017 #79

No, the timing was the worst possible, because it served as a distraction from the ACA pnwmom Sep 2017 #111

Exactly, it's the same distraction as in 1993 when he didn't support UNIVERSAL health care R B Garr Sep 2017 #135

Sanders had his own single payer bill in 1993 CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #139

That wasn't the point. His focus was not on unity. R B Garr Sep 2017 #140

He was focused on his own plan CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #145

Wow, that sounds incredibly selfish. Support Democrats! The ACA is the law R B Garr Sep 2017 #167

We're going have to agree to disagree here CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #173

Yes, SUPPORT DEMOCRATS. You should be focusing on supporting Democrats. R B Garr Sep 2017 #176

What are you talking about? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #179

What a convoluted way to finally agree with what everyone has been telling you-- R B Garr Sep 2017 #181

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #190

Hillarycare would have been a disaster. Bernie's precision plan is much simpler... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #197

Can you specify what the "precision" is in his plan? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #218

That was Democratic Rep. Jim McDermott's bill. lapucelle Sep 2017 #165

John Dingell Sr. introduced a form of universal healthcare and single payer back in 1943.... George II Sep 2017 #188

Every western democracy does it a little different LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #116

No many of them do not dsc Sep 2017 #121

No one is denied a basic coverage LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #177

No one being denied coverage is called universal coverage dsc Sep 2017 #184

And the only way that happens LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #232

And the ACA intended to establish another public/private system, pnwmom Sep 2017 #217

Switzerland uses regulated private insurers, and it is a western democracy. pnwmom Sep 2017 #122

The key word is "regulated" LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #174

Yes they do -- which proves that a system using a mixture of public and private insurance pnwmom Sep 2017 #216

It is a single payer BACKED system LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #231

And the ACA provided for universal insurance guaranteed and regulated by elected people. pnwmom Sep 2017 #247

And neither of those are countries of 320+ million people. Denmark has a population of 5.7M... George II Sep 2017 #170

Bingo George, I think you hit all three types of concern troll. rgbecker Sep 2017 #187

Excuse me? Reread what I posted, please. George II Sep 2017 #189

Got it. You are concerned America has too many people, rgbecker Sep 2017 #193

Why are you so concerned (oh that word!) about my personal life and why are you.... George II Sep 2017 #194

For review. The Clinton Universal Health care proposal of 1993 R B Garr Sep 2017 #132

Vermont doesn't have single payer. Doesn't Massachusetts have RomneyCare? R B Garr Sep 2017 #137

Here's a good analysis of what happened in Vermont. lapucelle Sep 2017 #162

Thanks, lapucelle, that is a very informative post. R B Garr Sep 2017 #224

It isn't actually. It's a WAY to get to universal healthcare, but it's just payment system, one Ninsianna Sep 2017 #210

In the way that Miniature Poodle is to Canine. ehrnst Sep 2017 #264

Nope. Just like "Neil Simon" isn't interchangealble with "Playwright" ehrnst Sep 2017 #268

I want universal healthcare to happen and be successful tymorial Sep 2017 #166

Well, many on DU insist that universal health care . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #6

I have not seen one single person criticise universal healthcare ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #9

Exactly. Not a person on here is against Universal Health Care. The real trolling.. JHan Sep 2017 #20

This particular article seems very popular ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #24

yeah...which translated means: JHan Sep 2017 #29

Working in healthcare I have a lot of questions ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #38

Hire doctors from other countries Not Ruth Sep 2017 #54

We are already doing that ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #64

I think one of the biggest problems with that CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #146

What is wrong with that if we need doctors? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #207

What is wrong with the cost of college? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #208

Yet many can Not Ruth Sep 2017 #212

We've been doing that for decades. It's not fixing the problem and with all Ninsianna Sep 2017 #200

From a VERY short search I just did, the U.S. has aprox 2.3 doctors/1000 people. ret5hd Sep 2017 #73

Not to mention our ability to train physician assistants, nurse practitioners, etc. KPN Sep 2017 #86

Cant isnt the point ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #110

Great Jumping Jehosaphat! ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #87

lol. JHan Sep 2017 #93

Your hostility to the information I gave is noted. ret5hd Sep 2017 #102

I looked at your links and they didnt offer any depth. It was amusement, not hostility ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #112

Your alternative is to deny health care to a segment of the population. ret5hd Sep 2017 #113

Ok, you lost me ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #115

If we can not provide care for all... ret5hd Sep 2017 #126

Ismnotwasm is a professional in the field. Maybe learn something from her rather than dismissing Squinch Sep 2017 #159

I am not sure how to reply to this. ret5hd Sep 2017 #221

Look it up yourself. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #235

I did. You said that's not good enough. ret5hd Sep 2017 #243

Poor you. You reply to her with dismissal and snark but it's really hard when people call you on it. Squinch Sep 2017 #252

2) The link (not links) I gave were to the first source that... ret5hd Sep 2017 #223

Lol. So fix that! KPN Sep 2017 #76

you're not getting the gist of her point: JHan Sep 2017 #88

Exactly ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #94

.... JHan Sep 2017 #98

Really? I'm not getting that? KPN Sep 2017 #99

.. JHan Sep 2017 #100

Agree! ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #91

Thank you. KPN Sep 2017 #103

Outlaw the American Medical Association (A.M.A.) nolabels Sep 2017 #128

training more providers..that seems simple enough questionseverything Sep 2017 #136

You could make that case against any opposing viewpoint which ... KPN Sep 2017 #68

No you can't. JHan Sep 2017 #85

Haha. Of course you can. KPN Sep 2017 #89

no infinity. *Rolls eyes* JHan Sep 2017 #92

Agreed. KPN Sep 2017 #101

False equivalency. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #270

But it does make them dividers. KPN Sep 2017 #66

Would you call me a troll? ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #77

I wouldn't use that word in your case. KPN Sep 2017 #83

So...if one don't agree with Sanders, one is "divisive," and a "troll" ehrnst Sep 2017 #271

Yep, I am in that camp...putting out MFA gives the GOP cover and could lead to its demise. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #75

But that is a matter of tactics, not content. NT Adrahil Sep 2017 #80

Not true. Monday night is one time, one night. "Many insist" (or say).Yeah, we know the provenance. WinkyDink Sep 2017 #192

Bernie can walk and chew gum at the same time... it's amazing! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #199

Not on the back burner. Wait until Oct. 1 when the repugs can no longer repeal... brush Sep 2017 #214

You are confusing Univeral Health Care with Single-payer ehrnst Sep 2017 #265

Unless Bernie has something to do with it! Chasstev365 Sep 2017 #14

We see Bernie very differently. Deal! Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #22

That has little to do with the fact that there is now a faction here who insist on calling everyone Squinch Sep 2017 #28

Details are certainly important, but, of course, when the shoe is on the other foot... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #196

I don't even know what that means. It's a healthcare plan. What kind of moron would one have Squinch Sep 2017 #198

All dissent from the manifesto must be silenced. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #272

Why is it that single payer USE to be so popular on DU Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #27

The ACA is currently in crisis mode. Most DUers are responding appropriately and trying pnwmom Sep 2017 #35

Read DU posts on the topic -- has nothing to do with Bernie and other supports but . . . ATL Ebony Sep 2017 #127

Oh, I've seen plenty of these 3 kinds of trolls. Amounts to the same thing imo. KPN Sep 2017 #56

always being quick with a reason why this isn't the right time, or this isn't the right plan is the JCanete Sep 2017 #229

The feasibility troll: What about the GOP? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #2

There are a number of issues with the feasibility of 'single payer' AT THIS TIME... yallerdawg Sep 2017 #12

In my view what makes it a "difficult issue" . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #15

Actually one of my concerns about M4A at this time ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #26

Big Phar is but 10% of healthcare expenditures. There are lots of other groups profiting from our Hoyt Sep 2017 #58

I love this. From now on label every troll with the appropriate title. rgbecker Sep 2017 #13

Thanks for the concise summary--I'm making a note! nt shanny Sep 2017 #18

So you are calling people with questions trolls? ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #21

So many questions! rgbecker Sep 2017 #134

I would think that would be a very bad idea...and backfire. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #78

Because Freedom and GOP? rgbecker Sep 2017 #133

Read TOS. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #222

I think I'm stating the obvious, but on here it has zero to do with universal health care... vi5 Sep 2017 #16

You are saying it has everything to do with personality ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #23

Here on DU? Yes. vi5 Sep 2017 #131

Can you point out that "so much opposition to universal health care on DU"? brer cat Sep 2017 #17

This is complete bullshit and you know it is. There is not a soul here that is opposed Squinch Sep 2017 #19

You might want to take it up with . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #30

Was it Adam Johnson who claimed brer cat Sep 2017 #42

Did you read the article? It's lists 3 types of trolls. Most are in this exact thread! Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #43

Did you read my post? brer cat Sep 2017 #47

"Once in office, Bill Clinton quickly set up the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, R B Garr Sep 2017 #53

Thats not a very nice article, calling Pelosi a hypocrite and all. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #46

The article itself is nothing but an ad hominem attack. It has nothing to do with the plan, it has Squinch Sep 2017 #74

Nice...well they are right....the ACA has to be the first priority. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #81

I agree. The writer calling people "trolls" and ascribing nefarious motives is a weak response NurseJackie Sep 2017 #31

It works everywhere else on the planet beautifully. All this "how would it be financed" concern Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #32

Not true. Many of the countries whose universal systems work well are NOT single payer. pnwmom Sep 2017 #37

Canada is textbook single payer Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #39

It by definition is NOT "single" payer. Each PROVINCE has its own plan, pnwmom Sep 2017 #45

Sorry, I will take the VOX article. You are splitting hairs. nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #48

The Vox article acknowledges that private insurance is a PART of the Canadian system. pnwmom Sep 2017 #49

Look, there is no final proposal right now. It will go through many, many changes Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #57

But in the meantime no one is allowed to ask any questions about it, lest they be labeled trolls. Squinch Sep 2017 #67

So what are your problems with the current plan? nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #82

Oh, no! No one is allowed to discuss it! According to you, if I ask a question, I'm a troll. Squinch Sep 2017 #84

I will ask again, what don't you like about the current proposal? nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #97

And I'll say again, this is a thread in which it was stated that anyone who asks questions is a Squinch Sep 2017 #108

It won't go through any changes because it won't happen without a super majority Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #90

I'm fighting for those who are a lot younger than I am. I already have good HC Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #107

We must save the ACA and win elections in order to get a PO and a lowered Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #118

We agree on that. nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #119

Not really ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #61

Well, from everything I have read, Sanders proposal is even better than Canada's Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #69

And thats great ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #104

There a few things my MSP in BC doesn't cover Fiendish Thingy Sep 2017 #50

Right. And each province has its own regulations, which vary. n/t pnwmom Sep 2017 #51

But essentially, it is single payer Fiendish Thingy Sep 2017 #59

I agree with you on that . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #40

No. It's NOT a fake concern. We have a newly proposed program that would be huge. Squinch Sep 2017 #65

Again, getting bogged down with the details of a plan that won't pass a Republican congress Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #96

What is happening in this thread is some people calling their allies trolls because they Squinch Sep 2017 #120

+1 betsuni Sep 2017 #150

Actually, the vast majority of Universal Health Care on the planet is multi-payer. ehrnst Sep 2017 #269

+1 Man_Bear_Pig Sep 2017 #34

This is a great artcile melman Sep 2017 #36

Its a horrible divisive article ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #63

No, it's really not melman Sep 2017 #95

By that articles criteria, *I* am a troll ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #106

This is not my first day reading the board melman Sep 2017 #125

I am not trying to sell anything ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #142

Oh, but you are melman Sep 2017 #225

What do you think Im selling? ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #234

Gosh. How cryptic. Squinch Sep 2017 #253

I am also a troll. I object to single payer, m4a being proposed AT THIS POINT. sprinkleeninow Sep 2017 #215

The OP is an outright distortion and falsehoods. Perhaps the OP wasn't aware of those DEMOCRATS who still_one Sep 2017 #41

The Republicans did not hesitate for an instant . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #230

That isn't why they won and youo know it. Johnson is a disingenous ass. still_one Sep 2017 #233

Lack of clarity alert . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #236

Ok, here is your clarity ALERT. Every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing states still_one Sep 2017 #241

Brilliant! and that disingenuous ass Johnson is just trying to cloud "universal health care" R B Garr Sep 2017 #242

You are absolutely right RB. We have 5 days to call Senators to hopefully motivate them to prevent still_one Sep 2017 #244

Yet the reality is that the Clinton's introduced Universal Health Care way back in 1993 R B Garr Sep 2017 #44

Self delete. Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #52

Yet looking back on that time period, others introduced their own competing plans, R B Garr Sep 2017 #60

+1000 pnwmom Sep 2017 #72

as ACA is heaven05 Sep 2017 #55

Yes ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #114

Now we find out that although not a concern troll, you don't like the Medicare system? rgbecker Sep 2017 #195

This is the first you have heard that providers aren't thrilled with Medicare? That's not exactly Squinch Sep 2017 #201

Article also says, "Some have valid reasons to question . . . . . Sanders methods in particular." Hoyt Sep 2017 #71

Many do not claim to be against a single payer system, guillaumeb Sep 2017 #105

Bingo. nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #109

You are totally wrong. Blue_true Sep 2017 #123

PNHP area51 Sep 2017 #124

lol stonecutter357 Sep 2017 #130

I am all in for universal health care GulfCoast66 Sep 2017 #143

So now questions about policy are bad, we should be an echo chamber and trust politicians? betsuni Sep 2017 #147

It's a puzzle why the overreaction to simple requests for details ehrnst Sep 2017 #151

If anyone but Sanders had introduced the bill Warpy Sep 2017 #152

Yeah, health care policy experts are all in the pocket of the GOP and the oligharchy.... ehrnst Sep 2017 #153

For sure, single payer is . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #228

Ditto to everything you said including voting for Hillary Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #183

Why would anyone care about details of legislation? BainsBane Sep 2017 #160

I wonder if Adam Johnson realizes that because of what happened in 2016, M4All is on hold for at still_one Sep 2017 #168

So-called Democrats who oppose M4A, public option, FairWinds Sep 2017 #227

Big insurance companies would lose lots of money-they also donate to campaigns. jalan48 Sep 2017 #172

"The term "concern trolls" was used during the election to diminish those concerns raised by people politicaljunkie41910 Sep 2017 #175

Because the point is BainsBane Sep 2017 #254

There is literally nothing in the world that I dont have concerns with. Eko Sep 2017 #185

There are many examples of other countries have nonprofit health care. riverbendviewgal Sep 2017 #203

That's actually a terrible analysis from Adam Johnson Ninsianna Sep 2017 #206

Denying that an important faction of the Dems oppose universal health care? FairWinds Sep 2017 #226

Yes, actually, since that's not what Dems oppose. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #245

And Max Baucus is Santa Claus FairWinds Sep 2017 #248

I guess that platform is hard to read, much easier to link to propaganda and lies. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #249

Not to belabor the obvious . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #250

You seem to keep failing to back up your assertion, why is that? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #251

Yes. Hey, Fairwinds, how about names for the "some" few Dems who are so infuriating Hortensis Sep 2017 #255

It's almost like those "thousands of hits" don't actually provide anything Ninsianna Sep 2017 #258

I give you . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #256

You actually did not give me what you claim you did Ninsianna Sep 2017 #257

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #259

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #260

Seriously, you're asked to back up your claims and you respond with Ninsianna Sep 2017 #261

For review: Bill Clinton ran on universal health care in 1992. It's been part of the R B Garr Sep 2017 #246

I guess the "real" democrat of 45 years, who is demanding papers, like a good Ninsianna Sep 2017 #262

This is what it's come to since 2015. A constant R B Garr Sep 2017 #274

This blogger starts from a mistaken confusion between UHC and single-payer. ehrnst Sep 2017 #266

I have a little list... bagelsforbreakfast Sep 2017 #209

Why is it never discussed that a single-payer, universal system would be a relief for small business YOHABLO Sep 2017 #211

The taxes levied on businesses to pay for single-payer are discussed a lot ehrnst Sep 2017 #267

My mother was from France. Half my family is there lovemydogs Sep 2017 #237

Because it is a sadistic trait humans have... WyattKansas Sep 2017 #239

ive never seen opposition to it.....just some doubts expressed about... samnsara Sep 2017 #238

You seem to be confusing "Universal Health Care" and "single-payer." ehrnst Sep 2017 #263

THANK YOU for this! NastyRiffraff Sep 2017 #273