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Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
220. Well, good luck. My master gardener group once worked on a project
Mon Sep 25, 2017, 06:47 AM
Sep 2017

like that, invited in by the organizers to provide expertise. The only gardens that succeeded were one that became dominated by hobby gardeners and one that was taken over from the project-- as it very much should have been, I was proud of them -- by POC in their own neighborhood. However, in the end all but the hobby garden failed. Of course. I'm afraid I only hoped it would be different.

Except when done for enjoyment and personal satisfaction, the investment of time and labor required to grow even a tiny amount of food on a tiny allotment is simply not sustainable, the returns incredibly small for investment. Hugely, one has to tend living plants constantly. Any lapse can cause failure. And when individuals fail to maintain, the entire garden project begins its downward slide.

All entirely predictable. Subsistence farming, even on the tiniest scale, is simply not an answer for people whose real need is for higher wages so they can purchase food produced at far lower costs. Critically, the real work day for people who work at or near unsustainable wage levels is far longer than the paid one. People without their own washer and dryer, without bank accounts and credit cards, without grocery stores, pharmacies, doctors, banks in their neighborhoods, and often without cars have to work longer hours every day just at the task of maintaining after their paid hours are over.

And on that point: What happened to the unifying call to fight the extreme income inequality created by the right? How have both Democrat and the Sanders "revolution" discussion been subverted to scrabbling inside the party over repeal-and-replace of the ACA?

And just WHO sent people here to distract DUers away from the little issue of income distribution? I won't suggest one guess, since these days they're coming at us from all sides.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I have not seen one person against universal healthcare here. Not one. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #1
The headline in link... CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #3
This is third time that I know of this article has been posted here. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #4
Single payer though? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #5
Single payer is a method, NOT universal healthcare ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #7
Single payer IS universal healthcare CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #8
Im sure you do ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #10
Okay. CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #11
It's not okay that hostile agents are on DU busily fanny small division into Hortensis Sep 2017 #25
Great post. sharedvalues Sep 2017 #129
Check this out! CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #138
You agree also I should make an OP about you as a force for unity on DU? Hortensis Sep 2017 #141
Thanks CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #144
Okay, interesting group. That kind of cohesion can be hard to achieve. Hortensis Sep 2017 #148
It's actually rather easy! CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #154
Huh! Those are all Democratic Party issues; and, let's face it, Hortensis Sep 2017 #161
Funny you mention that CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #219
Well, good luck. My master gardener group once worked on a project Hortensis Sep 2017 #220
Is your 20% group of Democrats and the rest Independents working on R B Garr Sep 2017 #240
Should we look for WillyT? (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #149
Who's that? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #155
LOL! (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #156
I guess the jokes on me apparently? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #157
Lol ehrnst Sep 2017 #158
AH!! Yes indeed...... R B Garr Sep 2017 #163
WillyT goes to the tavern or pub, not the meeting. betsuni Sep 2017 #164
"new faces" R B Garr Sep 2017 #169
Indeed! CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #171
Yes, a board to SUPPORT DEMOCRATS. I'm sure the new faces will be very R B Garr Sep 2017 #178
Familiar? How so? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #180
Don't they support Democrats?? How could that not be familiar?? R B Garr Sep 2017 #182
All the Democrats or people who support Democrats that I know and who are active online.... George II Sep 2017 #186
Exactly, which makes you wonder about the third party angle. Promoting third parties R B Garr Sep 2017 #191
Unless I'm mistaken CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #205
Go re-read what I said George CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #202
It's the Our Revolution revelation. Some are skeptical because Nina Turner has said... brush Sep 2017 #213
Ok, now I am really lost CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #204
Universal coverage and single payer are not the same thing. lapucelle Sep 2017 #117
Many of the countries that have universal healthcare, like Switzerland and Canada, pnwmom Sep 2017 #33
Right. That's fine. So what ... are you KPN Sep 2017 #62
NO. But I was not happy about the TIMING of Bernie's latest announcement, pnwmom Sep 2017 #70
So it's about Bernie primarily. KPN Sep 2017 #79
No, the timing was the worst possible, because it served as a distraction from the ACA pnwmom Sep 2017 #111
Exactly, it's the same distraction as in 1993 when he didn't support UNIVERSAL health care R B Garr Sep 2017 #135
Sanders had his own single payer bill in 1993 CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #139
That wasn't the point. His focus was not on unity. R B Garr Sep 2017 #140
He was focused on his own plan CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #145
Wow, that sounds incredibly selfish. Support Democrats! The ACA is the law R B Garr Sep 2017 #167
We're going have to agree to disagree here CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #173
Yes, SUPPORT DEMOCRATS. You should be focusing on supporting Democrats. R B Garr Sep 2017 #176
What are you talking about? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #179
What a convoluted way to finally agree with what everyone has been telling you-- R B Garr Sep 2017 #181
Again, we'll have to agree to disagree CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #190
Hillarycare would have been a disaster. Bernie's precision plan is much simpler... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #197
Can you specify what the "precision" is in his plan? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #218
That was Democratic Rep. Jim McDermott's bill. lapucelle Sep 2017 #165
John Dingell Sr. introduced a form of universal healthcare and single payer back in 1943.... George II Sep 2017 #188
Every western democracy does it a little different LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #116
No many of them do not dsc Sep 2017 #121
No one is denied a basic coverage LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #177
No one being denied coverage is called universal coverage dsc Sep 2017 #184
And the only way that happens LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #232
And the ACA intended to establish another public/private system, pnwmom Sep 2017 #217
Switzerland uses regulated private insurers, and it is a western democracy. pnwmom Sep 2017 #122
The key word is "regulated" LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #174
Yes they do -- which proves that a system using a mixture of public and private insurance pnwmom Sep 2017 #216
It is a single payer BACKED system LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #231
And the ACA provided for universal insurance guaranteed and regulated by elected people. pnwmom Sep 2017 #247
And neither of those are countries of 320+ million people. Denmark has a population of 5.7M... George II Sep 2017 #170
Bingo George, I think you hit all three types of concern troll. rgbecker Sep 2017 #187
Excuse me? Reread what I posted, please. George II Sep 2017 #189
Got it. You are concerned America has too many people, rgbecker Sep 2017 #193
Why are you so concerned (oh that word!) about my personal life and why are you.... George II Sep 2017 #194
For review. The Clinton Universal Health care proposal of 1993 R B Garr Sep 2017 #132
Vermont doesn't have single payer. Doesn't Massachusetts have RomneyCare? R B Garr Sep 2017 #137
Here's a good analysis of what happened in Vermont. lapucelle Sep 2017 #162
Thanks, lapucelle, that is a very informative post. R B Garr Sep 2017 #224
It isn't actually. It's a WAY to get to universal healthcare, but it's just payment system, one Ninsianna Sep 2017 #210
In the way that Miniature Poodle is to Canine. ehrnst Sep 2017 #264
Nope. Just like "Neil Simon" isn't interchangealble with "Playwright" ehrnst Sep 2017 #268
I want universal healthcare to happen and be successful tymorial Sep 2017 #166
Well, many on DU insist that universal health care . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #6
I have not seen one single person criticise universal healthcare ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #9
Exactly. Not a person on here is against Universal Health Care. The real trolling.. JHan Sep 2017 #20
This particular article seems very popular ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #24
yeah...which translated means: JHan Sep 2017 #29
Working in healthcare I have a lot of questions ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #38
Hire doctors from other countries Not Ruth Sep 2017 #54
We are already doing that ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #64
I think one of the biggest problems with that CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #146
What is wrong with that if we need doctors? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #207
What is wrong with the cost of college? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #208
Yet many can Not Ruth Sep 2017 #212
We've been doing that for decades. It's not fixing the problem and with all Ninsianna Sep 2017 #200
From a VERY short search I just did, the U.S. has aprox 2.3 doctors/1000 people. ret5hd Sep 2017 #73
Not to mention our ability to train physician assistants, nurse practitioners, etc. KPN Sep 2017 #86
Cant isnt the point ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #110
Great Jumping Jehosaphat! ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #87
lol. JHan Sep 2017 #93
Your hostility to the information I gave is noted. ret5hd Sep 2017 #102
I looked at your links and they didnt offer any depth. It was amusement, not hostility ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #112
Your alternative is to deny health care to a segment of the population. ret5hd Sep 2017 #113
Ok, you lost me ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #115
If we can not provide care for all... ret5hd Sep 2017 #126
Ismnotwasm is a professional in the field. Maybe learn something from her rather than dismissing Squinch Sep 2017 #159
I am not sure how to reply to this. ret5hd Sep 2017 #221
Look it up yourself. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #235
I did. You said that's not good enough. ret5hd Sep 2017 #243
Poor you. You reply to her with dismissal and snark but it's really hard when people call you on it. Squinch Sep 2017 #252
2) The link (not links) I gave were to the first source that... ret5hd Sep 2017 #223
Lol. So fix that! KPN Sep 2017 #76
you're not getting the gist of her point: JHan Sep 2017 #88
Exactly ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #94
.... JHan Sep 2017 #98
Really? I'm not getting that? KPN Sep 2017 #99
.. JHan Sep 2017 #100
Agree! ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #91
Thank you. KPN Sep 2017 #103
Outlaw the American Medical Association (A.M.A.) nolabels Sep 2017 #128
training more providers..that seems simple enough questionseverything Sep 2017 #136
You could make that case against any opposing viewpoint which ... KPN Sep 2017 #68
No you can't. JHan Sep 2017 #85
Haha. Of course you can. KPN Sep 2017 #89
no infinity. *Rolls eyes* JHan Sep 2017 #92
Agreed. KPN Sep 2017 #101
False equivalency. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #270
But it does make them dividers. KPN Sep 2017 #66
Would you call me a troll? ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #77
I wouldn't use that word in your case. KPN Sep 2017 #83
So...if one don't agree with Sanders, one is "divisive," and a "troll" ehrnst Sep 2017 #271
Yep, I am in that camp...putting out MFA gives the GOP cover and could lead to its demise. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #75
But that is a matter of tactics, not content. NT Adrahil Sep 2017 #80
Not true. Monday night is one time, one night. "Many insist" (or say).Yeah, we know the provenance. WinkyDink Sep 2017 #192
Bernie can walk and chew gum at the same time... it's amazing! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #199
Not on the back burner. Wait until Oct. 1 when the repugs can no longer repeal... brush Sep 2017 #214
You are confusing Univeral Health Care with Single-payer ehrnst Sep 2017 #265
Unless Bernie has something to do with it! Chasstev365 Sep 2017 #14
We see Bernie very differently. Deal! Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #22
That has little to do with the fact that there is now a faction here who insist on calling everyone Squinch Sep 2017 #28
Details are certainly important, but, of course, when the shoe is on the other foot... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #196
I don't even know what that means. It's a healthcare plan. What kind of moron would one have Squinch Sep 2017 #198
All dissent from the manifesto must be silenced. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #272
Why is it that single payer USE to be so popular on DU Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #27
The ACA is currently in crisis mode. Most DUers are responding appropriately and trying pnwmom Sep 2017 #35
Read DU posts on the topic -- has nothing to do with Bernie and other supports but . . . ATL Ebony Sep 2017 #127
Oh, I've seen plenty of these 3 kinds of trolls. Amounts to the same thing imo. KPN Sep 2017 #56
always being quick with a reason why this isn't the right time, or this isn't the right plan is the JCanete Sep 2017 #229
The feasibility troll: What about the GOP? CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #2
There are a number of issues with the feasibility of 'single payer' AT THIS TIME... yallerdawg Sep 2017 #12
In my view what makes it a "difficult issue" . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #15
Actually one of my concerns about M4A at this time ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #26
Big Phar is but 10% of healthcare expenditures. There are lots of other groups profiting from our Hoyt Sep 2017 #58
I love this. From now on label every troll with the appropriate title. rgbecker Sep 2017 #13
Thanks for the concise summary--I'm making a note! nt shanny Sep 2017 #18
So you are calling people with questions trolls? ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #21
So many questions! rgbecker Sep 2017 #134
I would think that would be a very bad idea...and backfire. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #78
Because Freedom and GOP? rgbecker Sep 2017 #133
Read TOS. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #222
I think I'm stating the obvious, but on here it has zero to do with universal health care... vi5 Sep 2017 #16
You are saying it has everything to do with personality ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #23
Here on DU? Yes. vi5 Sep 2017 #131
Can you point out that "so much opposition to universal health care on DU"? brer cat Sep 2017 #17
This is complete bullshit and you know it is. There is not a soul here that is opposed Squinch Sep 2017 #19
You might want to take it up with . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #30
Was it Adam Johnson who claimed brer cat Sep 2017 #42
Did you read the article? It's lists 3 types of trolls. Most are in this exact thread! Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #43
Did you read my post? brer cat Sep 2017 #47
"Once in office, Bill Clinton quickly set up the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, R B Garr Sep 2017 #53
Thats not a very nice article, calling Pelosi a hypocrite and all. ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #46
The article itself is nothing but an ad hominem attack. It has nothing to do with the plan, it has Squinch Sep 2017 #74
Nice...well they are right....the ACA has to be the first priority. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #81
I agree. The writer calling people "trolls" and ascribing nefarious motives is a weak response NurseJackie Sep 2017 #31
It works everywhere else on the planet beautifully. All this "how would it be financed" concern Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #32
Not true. Many of the countries whose universal systems work well are NOT single payer. pnwmom Sep 2017 #37
Canada is textbook single payer Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #39
It by definition is NOT "single" payer. Each PROVINCE has its own plan, pnwmom Sep 2017 #45
Sorry, I will take the VOX article. You are splitting hairs. nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #48
The Vox article acknowledges that private insurance is a PART of the Canadian system. pnwmom Sep 2017 #49
Look, there is no final proposal right now. It will go through many, many changes Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #57
But in the meantime no one is allowed to ask any questions about it, lest they be labeled trolls. Squinch Sep 2017 #67
So what are your problems with the current plan? nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #82
Oh, no! No one is allowed to discuss it! According to you, if I ask a question, I'm a troll. Squinch Sep 2017 #84
I will ask again, what don't you like about the current proposal? nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #97
And I'll say again, this is a thread in which it was stated that anyone who asks questions is a Squinch Sep 2017 #108
It won't go through any changes because it won't happen without a super majority Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #90
I'm fighting for those who are a lot younger than I am. I already have good HC Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #107
We must save the ACA and win elections in order to get a PO and a lowered Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #118
We agree on that. nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #119
Not really ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #61
Well, from everything I have read, Sanders proposal is even better than Canada's Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #69
And thats great ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #104
There a few things my MSP in BC doesn't cover Fiendish Thingy Sep 2017 #50
Right. And each province has its own regulations, which vary. n/t pnwmom Sep 2017 #51
But essentially, it is single payer Fiendish Thingy Sep 2017 #59
I agree with you on that . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #40
No. It's NOT a fake concern. We have a newly proposed program that would be huge. Squinch Sep 2017 #65
Again, getting bogged down with the details of a plan that won't pass a Republican congress Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #96
What is happening in this thread is some people calling their allies trolls because they Squinch Sep 2017 #120
+1 betsuni Sep 2017 #150
Actually, the vast majority of Universal Health Care on the planet is multi-payer. ehrnst Sep 2017 #269
+1 Man_Bear_Pig Sep 2017 #34
This is a great artcile melman Sep 2017 #36
Its a horrible divisive article ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #63
No, it's really not melman Sep 2017 #95
By that articles criteria, *I* am a troll ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #106
This is not my first day reading the board melman Sep 2017 #125
I am not trying to sell anything ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #142
Oh, but you are melman Sep 2017 #225
What do you think Im selling? ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #234
Gosh. How cryptic. Squinch Sep 2017 #253
I am also a troll. I object to single payer, m4a being proposed AT THIS POINT. sprinkleeninow Sep 2017 #215
The OP is an outright distortion and falsehoods. Perhaps the OP wasn't aware of those DEMOCRATS who still_one Sep 2017 #41
The Republicans did not hesitate for an instant . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #230
That isn't why they won and youo know it. Johnson is a disingenous ass. still_one Sep 2017 #233
Lack of clarity alert . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #236
Ok, here is your clarity ALERT. Every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing states still_one Sep 2017 #241
Brilliant! and that disingenuous ass Johnson is just trying to cloud "universal health care" R B Garr Sep 2017 #242
You are absolutely right RB. We have 5 days to call Senators to hopefully motivate them to prevent still_one Sep 2017 #244
Yet the reality is that the Clinton's introduced Universal Health Care way back in 1993 R B Garr Sep 2017 #44
Self delete. Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #52
Yet looking back on that time period, others introduced their own competing plans, R B Garr Sep 2017 #60
+1000 pnwmom Sep 2017 #72
as ACA is heaven05 Sep 2017 #55
Yes ismnotwasm Sep 2017 #114
Now we find out that although not a concern troll, you don't like the Medicare system? rgbecker Sep 2017 #195
This is the first you have heard that providers aren't thrilled with Medicare? That's not exactly Squinch Sep 2017 #201
Article also says, "Some have valid reasons to question . . . . . Sanders methods in particular." Hoyt Sep 2017 #71
Many do not claim to be against a single payer system, guillaumeb Sep 2017 #105
Bingo. nt Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #109
You are totally wrong. Blue_true Sep 2017 #123
PNHP area51 Sep 2017 #124
lol stonecutter357 Sep 2017 #130
I am all in for universal health care GulfCoast66 Sep 2017 #143
So now questions about policy are bad, we should be an echo chamber and trust politicians? betsuni Sep 2017 #147
It's a puzzle why the overreaction to simple requests for details ehrnst Sep 2017 #151
If anyone but Sanders had introduced the bill Warpy Sep 2017 #152
Yeah, health care policy experts are all in the pocket of the GOP and the oligharchy.... ehrnst Sep 2017 #153
For sure, single payer is . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #228
Ditto to everything you said including voting for Hillary Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #183
Why would anyone care about details of legislation? BainsBane Sep 2017 #160
I wonder if Adam Johnson realizes that because of what happened in 2016, M4All is on hold for at still_one Sep 2017 #168
So-called Democrats who oppose M4A, public option, FairWinds Sep 2017 #227
Big insurance companies would lose lots of money-they also donate to campaigns. jalan48 Sep 2017 #172
"The term "concern trolls" was used during the election to diminish those concerns raised by people politicaljunkie41910 Sep 2017 #175
Because the point is BainsBane Sep 2017 #254
There is literally nothing in the world that I dont have concerns with. Eko Sep 2017 #185
There are many examples of other countries have nonprofit health care. riverbendviewgal Sep 2017 #203
That's actually a terrible analysis from Adam Johnson Ninsianna Sep 2017 #206
Denying that an important faction of the Dems oppose universal health care? FairWinds Sep 2017 #226
Yes, actually, since that's not what Dems oppose. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #245
And Max Baucus is Santa Claus FairWinds Sep 2017 #248
I guess that platform is hard to read, much easier to link to propaganda and lies. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #249
Not to belabor the obvious . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #250
You seem to keep failing to back up your assertion, why is that? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #251
Yes. Hey, Fairwinds, how about names for the "some" few Dems who are so infuriating Hortensis Sep 2017 #255
It's almost like those "thousands of hits" don't actually provide anything Ninsianna Sep 2017 #258
I give you . . FairWinds Sep 2017 #256
You actually did not give me what you claim you did Ninsianna Sep 2017 #257
Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #259
Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #260
Seriously, you're asked to back up your claims and you respond with Ninsianna Sep 2017 #261
For review: Bill Clinton ran on universal health care in 1992. It's been part of the R B Garr Sep 2017 #246
I guess the "real" democrat of 45 years, who is demanding papers, like a good Ninsianna Sep 2017 #262
This is what it's come to since 2015. A constant R B Garr Sep 2017 #274
This blogger starts from a mistaken confusion between UHC and single-payer. ehrnst Sep 2017 #266
I have a little list... bagelsforbreakfast Sep 2017 #209
Why is it never discussed that a single-payer, universal system would be a relief for small business YOHABLO Sep 2017 #211
The taxes levied on businesses to pay for single-payer are discussed a lot ehrnst Sep 2017 #267
My mother was from France. Half my family is there lovemydogs Sep 2017 #237
Because it is a sadistic trait humans have... WyattKansas Sep 2017 #239
ive never seen opposition to it.....just some doubts expressed about... samnsara Sep 2017 #238
You seem to be confusing "Universal Health Care" and "single-payer." ehrnst Sep 2017 #263
THANK YOU for this! NastyRiffraff Sep 2017 #273
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Universal health care "co...»Reply #220