The Nation: Bernie Sanders Just Gave the Progressive Foreign-Policy Speech Weve Been Waiting For

[ehrnst]

67. You seem to have bought strawmen in bulk - did you find a sale?

Um... you seem to say that I "have proved your point," which I think is really different than you think...

You commented: "I remember when Medicare and the ACA were visions but oh well"

When I pointed out that history shows that LBJ had to lie about the costs of Medicare and Medicaid to get them to pass, and that the CBO would make that impossible today, you got snippy. You said that I "compared him to a fucking republican" because I guess you got embarrassed when I took your snarky remark and schooled you on how Medicare/Medicaid actually got through, and it had to do with flat out lying. Which can't happen now, so at least one misconception you had about the inevitabilty and pure motives that made Medicare/Medicaid possible will make M4A possible, too.

The point I got from that is that you are embarassed about not getting the last word in, because you accused me of "proving that LBJ was no different than a fucking republican," when I simply shared with you a bit of history that clearly you weren't aware of, that spoiled your view that it was all "vision" like M4A, and would just follow that same quick route to reality.

The message I got was, "Shut up with the history lesson, you are supposed to feel insulted! AND ALSO YOU PROVED MY POINT!!!" After which you tried to say that I had somehow said that because Obama didn't have vital details when he directed Congress to create the plan (which is nothing like what Sanders is doing - claiming that his plan has all the funding and most details worked out, and not instructing Congress to write...), that I was applying different standards to "the same thing." So, no, only you are comparing the two in a way that would indicate a "bullshit" double standard reasoning.

In fact, your defense of his latest M4A bill indicates that it is totally possible, and needs no more details or analysis to go to the floor Because it's BERNIE, aslo at some point in time the ACA and Medicare weren't fully formed (way before they were presented for vote), but at the same time IT'S OK IF THERE AREN'T ENOUGH DETAILS IN M4A BECAUSE THE ACA AND MEDICARE DIDN'T START OUT FULLY FORMED AT SOME POINT IF YOU THINK HEALTH CARE IS A RIGHT THEN YOU HAVE TO AGREE THAT M4A IS FINE AS A PIECE OF LEGISLATION, SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!11

And all of these seem to be deployed whenever you want to derail the thread, especially when you are schooled, which is red herring.

I know that you get enraged at the messenger anytime a health policy expert, or think tank - questions Sanders' funding mechanisms, or anything else that he has stated. But please try to keep calm enough to the conversation at hand straight, sans strawmen and herring.

I think you're capable of logical debate, but your assumption that any and all fact checking on Sanders is an attack you must defend him from. Because quoting experts on the legislation he says is ready for a vote is bashing him?

I think he'll be OK if you aren't on the boards, trying to humiliate and insult any and all discussion of him that isn't praise.



and JPR - yeah.